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Author Topic: What should a spell of each level be able to do?  (Read 442 times)
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Endarire
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« on: November 09, 2010, 10:28:18 PM »

Intro
We know that spells are powerful, and almost always the most powerful thing in the game.

Many strive for balance when we don't know when the focal point of this balance is.

For purposes of this post, whether a "spell" (spell, psi-like ability, supernatural ability, or otherwise not Extraordinary) is arcane, divine, both, or neither doesn't matter.  There are so many ways to nab an arcane spell as a divine caster and vice versa that arcane versus divine is moot.  After all, about 99% of people who die to a spell don't care whether a Cleric cast it or a Wizard did it.

The spell levels described below assume a Wizard's or a Cleric's spell progression.  Level 1 spells happen at class level 1, level 2 spells @class level 3... level 9 spells @class level 17.

Types of Spells
Buffs give their intended targets bigger numbers (polymorph, fox's cunning, resist energy, time stop) or some character improvement that isn't immediately numerically measurable, like a mode of transportation (levitate, fly).  Transportative magic is expanded upon in the Transportation section below.

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC) spells focus on denying enemies their actions, often by altering the environment (stone shape) or creating new hazards (wall of force, grease, glitterdust).  These spells are related to Debuffs since both categories of spells impose penalties.

Debuffs emphasize lowering enemy numbers and imposing status ailments instead of denying enemies their actions.  Dispel magic and enervation fall here.

Direct Damage (DD) spells chip away or strip away the enemy's HP.  Some Direct Damage spells are attached to Debuffs or CCs.

Healing/Restorative (HR) spells recover HP and remove negative status ailments.  Cure light wounds, lesser restoration, and revive undead are in this category.

Minion spells create or call minions that would normally last 24 hours.  Planar binding, planar ally, and animate dead are the kings here.  Gate is technically included here as well since it can call a creature to serve you for a long time.  Most people don't use gate for contractual services.

Personal Control (PC) spells let you greatly influence a target's attitudes, thoughts, and actions.  Traditionally called "Mind Control," Personal Control spells emphasize controlling another's actions instead of denying them actions.  Command undead, psionic charm, control body, suggestion, and dominate person are examples.  Personal Control feels like its own category, though some combine PCs with Debuffs or CCs.

Spying spells gather information.  Contact other plane and scrying are perhaps the most famous, but Spying spells also include true seeing, see invisibility, detect thoughts, and most Divinations.

Summoning spells bring forth crunchy, disposable minions, that last less than 24 hours.  Consider all the spells with summon in their name.

Utility/Misc. (UM) spells cover everything not covered above.  If you'd hafta stretch to make a spell fit in another category, it belongs here.

The BIG Question
What should a spell of each of the above categories be able to do at each spell level?  Saying, "No Minion spells before spell level 3" is OK, but give your justification.

Note that many if not most spells scale with caster level to some point.

I'm also acting like Epic spells don't exist, because for most people, they don't.  Even a character with Epic Spellcasting needs much DM Fiat to make Epic spells work.

Level 0
Personal Notes
Level 0 spells are a last resort because you're out of better stuff, or a first resort so you can save the better stuff.

Buffs: +1 Resistance saves

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): Daze a creature of 4- HD for 1 round

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): d3 energy damage as a Close ranged touch attack

Healing/Restorative (HR): Heal d3 damage as a Touch effect

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 1
Personal Notes
Level 1 spells are what most people consider the basic spells.  With L1 spells, a core Wizard can target every save, use no save offensive effects, obviate the Decipher Script skill, summon, make the local magistrate his friend, turn the local barkeep into a 15' Tall Stupid Fighter, and heat tea.

With enough scrolls, he can do all of these in the same day.

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 2
Personal Notes
Level 2 spells feel like major improvements over level 1 spells, for Wizards at least.  Go go gadget glitterdust, or levitate!  Clerics and Druids get lesser restoration to fuel Touch of Healing (Complete Champion).  Psions get share pain and bestow power.

The day you get level 2 spells is a good day.

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 3
Personal Notes
X

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 4
Personal Notes
X

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 5
Personal Notes
X

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 6
Personal Notes
X

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 7
Personal Notes
X

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 8
Personal Notes
X

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?

Level 9
Personal Notes
The height of power, the pride and joy of any caster who can cast them, and any nation that caster protects, level 9 spells often put the DM scrambling for challenging scenarios that aren't simply initiative wars.

I'm also acting like Epic spells don't exist, because for most people, they don't.  Even a character with Epic Spellcasting needs much DM Fiat to make Epic spells work.

Buffs: ?

Crowd Control/Battlefield Control (CC, BC, BFC): ?

Debuffs: ?

Direct Damage (DD): ?

Healing/Restorative (HR):

Minion: ?

Personal Control (PC): ?

Spying: ?

Summoning: ?

Transportive: ?

Utility/Misc. (UM) ?
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"
Etarran
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 11:18:05 PM »

The main issue with the spellcasting system is that transformative effects (in other words, effects that fundamentally change the way you interact with the game mechanically) tend to be severely undercosted - or if you prefer, non-transformative effects are overcosted.

Some examples of this type of effect are flying of all types, which both literally and figuratively add an entirely new dimension to gameplay; spells like mirror image or strong battlefield control, which remove the normal interaction of attack bonuses and AC, nearly any no-save effect, and of course the obvious things like animate dead and whatever other things like that.

The challenge is going to be pinning down the actual power level of a transformative effect - and the answer, effectively, is that you cannot price them reasonably, because each offers a unique effect that completely alters gameplay and removes all the assumptions on which previous balance judgments have been made. A wizard with fly can suddenly ignore an enormous variety of encounters unless his opponents possess the same transformational effect - and if the effect itself is required to defeat it, it can be reasonably placed at any spell level without actually changing game balance.

In other words, since the most powerful spells require their own effect or a specific counter to their effect to combat them, it doesn't matter what level you put them at. All it does is move around the speed with which the players need to acquire that benchmark for success. Things that can be compared to static modifiers, on the other hand, are much easier - a +2 STR bonus spell should be at a level that is about equivalent to when a fighter gets a similar effect (such as weapon specialization). Since Bull's Strength is not always on and takes resources, making it available a level earlier makes sense. Thus, purely numerical spells ought to be pretty easy to place.
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RobbyPants
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 03:22:38 PM »

Many strive for balance when we don't know when the focal point of this balance is.
I guess being able to deal with level appropriate threats is a good place to start.  Of course, the CR system isn't that great either, but it's what we've got.
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RelentlessImp
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 03:28:01 PM »

Prestidigitation and Mage Hand require a spot in Utilty/Misc in 0th level spells, and is what I would consider the balance point for orisons/cantrips. In other words, a cantrip should have a lot of fun, creative uses that don't necessarily have pure mechanical effects, but is just something you can do. They should form the basis of 'everything a spellcaster can do just by lieu of being a spellcaster, regardless of their level'.
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