What kind of ability is Spellcasting ?

[betrayor]

Since it was suggested to me that this is not a simple question I made a topic for it....
So what kind of ability is spellcasting?
Is it spelllike,supernatural,extraordinary or natural?
Monster manual 5 would seem to suggest that it is extraordinary but that would mean that you get it with polymorph.....

[Psithief]

I posit that it's a natural mental ability.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I posit that it's a natural mental ability.

Natural Abilities

This category includes abilities a creature has because of its physical nature.

[LordBlades]

AFAIK the RAW take on things is as follows:

By the books, spellcasting is either extraordinary or natural since it is neither supernatural or spell-like (books make a clear disticntion between these and spells). It was clarified by Sage IIRC as being extraordinary.

Going by this ruling however opens up quite a big can of worms regarding shapechange, since you would also get the spells the new form is able of casting.

[Kajhera]

Extraordinary abilities are specifically non-magical. Natural abilities are specifically physical. Spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities have particular distinctions from spells.

Conclusion: Spellcasting is not an ability.

[Havok4]

Conclusion: Spellcasting is not an ability.

That makes no sense at all.

The most reasonable and internally consistent interpretation I have seen (if not the most balanced, with shapeshifting magic it can get broken) is that the ability to cast spells is an extraordinary non-magical ability which causes a magical effect, much like how a rogue with UMD can cause magical effects. This is backed up by the way the ex/su/sla/nat abilities are defined, the invoke magic spell (you can cast in an antimagic field, it just usually does nothing) and the MM 5.

[bearsarebrown]

The most reasonable and internally consistent interpretation I have seen (if not the most balanced, with shapeshifting magic it can get broken) is that the ability to cast spells is an extraordinary non-magical ability which causes a magical effect, much like how a rogue with UMD can cause magical effects. This is backed up by the way the ex/su/sla/nat abilities are defined, the invoke magic spell (you can cast in an antimagic field, it just usually does nothing) and the MM 5.

Its 'broken' but this is what the rules say.

[Kajhera]

Conclusion: Spellcasting is not an ability.

That makes no sense at all.

The most reasonable and internally consistent interpretation I have seen (if not the most balanced, with shapeshifting magic it can get broken) is that the ability to cast spells is an extraordinary non-magical ability which causes a magical effect, much like how a rogue with UMD can cause magical effects. This is backed up by the way the ex/su/sla/nat abilities are defined, the invoke magic spell (you can cast in an antimagic field, it just usually does nothing) and the MM 5.

Truthfully it does not make sense, but it's the only thing I can wring from the SRD. Psionics are spell-like abilities at least... which is much more convenient.

The lengths gone to *not* to specify spellcasting as any particular type of ability suggest it's not something meant to be gained by shapeshifting, at least, though it may make the most sense otherwise as an odd sort of extraordinary ability.

[Kajhera]

Oh, we also have the option of psi-like ability under types of abilities. It seems unlikely admittedly.

[Havok4]

Oh, we also have the option of psi-like ability under types of abilities. It seems unlikely admittedly.

I think psi/magic transparency shuts that idea down as psi-like abilities are equivalent to spell-like abilities.

[RobbyPants]

Oh, we also have the option of psi-like ability under types of abilities. It seems unlikely admittedly.

I think psi/magic transparency shuts that idea down as psi-like abilities are equivalent to spell-like abilities.

And even still, that just means it was cleared up for psi-like abilities in one splat book, but was still never explicitly addressed for spells.

That being said, I think the strongest case for RAW is that it's Ex, but I don't blame any DM for not counting it that way at an actual table.  I wouldn't.

[bearsarebrown]

Actually, all psionics are psi-like abilities. And all psi-like abilities are spell-like abilities.

[archangel.arcanis]

So I guess classifying it as an ass kicking ability doesn't really help now does it. 

I'm in agreement with the others though, it should be EX based off of how everything is written but that just opens the door to abuse and should likely be house ruled into something else even if it is something new just so it can't be abused in that way.

[awaken DM golem]

iirc, it was K and FrankT
that chimed in, perhaps the last time they did so together, on the old TO board
with the Polymorph update circa then.

Spellcasting "was" either ex or su or sp , even if undefined.
Hence, polymorph could pick up those abilities too.
That's where the polymorphing to get the monsters spellcasting ability started.


Minor detail ... a psionic power produces a (ps) effect.
It's the effect that's equal to a (sp) effect, totally equal.
The ability that produces the effect, is not.
What exactly that ability is, has never been determined.
Then it flips back onto what K / FrankT posted on TO.
You can get it, even if you don't know exactly what it is.

Cheesy yes. RAW yes.

So ... you don't know what kind of ability spellcasting is,
except that it is (ex) or (su) or (sp) ... you still don't know.
And you still can get it.