Useful stuff to UMD?

[bearsarebrown]

No, I can't.  Expending a use of bardic music is using bardic music, which the first sentence cannot be more explicit in prohibiting.

And how do you feel about the PHB example of UMDing a class feature being a Rogue powering a Chalice with turn undead attempts?

Incorrect example #NI+1.

Um, it's under the Emulating a Class Feature section. Please explain.

[X-Codes]

No, I can't.  Expending a use of bardic music is using bardic music, which the first sentence cannot be more explicit in prohibiting.

And how do you feel about the PHB example of UMDing a class feature being a Rogue powering a Chalice with turn undead attempts?

Incorrect example #NI+1.

Um, it's under the Emulating a Class Feature section. Please explain.

I don't care where it is, it's preceded by the words "For example," which pretty well defines it as an example of how something works, and we have plenty of examples of how WotC sucks at making actual, legal examples of how abilities work.

[bearsarebrown]

If it does work how you say, can you give an example of a time you need to act as if you have a class feature without emulating it?

[Andras]

Shield of Mercy in MIC. Emulate Smite for healing.

[X-Codes]

Shield of Mercy in MIC. Emulate Smite for healing.

No, but the Horn of Valhalla works.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

No, I can't.  Expending a use of bardic music is using bardic music, which the first sentence cannot be more explicit in prohibiting.

And how do you feel about the PHB example of UMDing a class feature being a Rogue powering a Chalice with turn undead attempts?

Incorrect example #NI+1.

Sorry man, he isn't using turning.  He's using a turning-activated item, but it's not the same thing.

The rule's in place so you can't say "bitch, please, I'm a rogue", pull out some nightsticks and turn the shit out of some vampires or stuff like that

As an aside, the prohibition against actually using the class feature is the reason why you can't UMD a caster level for a staff.

[Catty Nebulart]

As an aside, the prohibition against actually using the class feature is the reason why you can't UMD a caster level for a staff.

Emulate class feature specifically notes that you level for the emulated class is your UMD check -20. So if you need to do something that only a 17'th level wizard can do (say the item requires 9'th level spells) you need to make a UMD check of 37. I think that also implies your effective caster-level is 17 if you actually roll a 37. You would also need at least a 19 int, or emulate that too. I have never used a UMD using class before so I am now trying to read the rules and they seem relatively straightforward.

The question is what where they thinking when they added rune-staves? Did they forget about how UMD works, or did they think that getting DC 40 checks reliably would be something reserved for epic levels? Like diplomancy.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

As an aside, the prohibition against actually using the class feature is the reason why you can't UMD a caster level for a staff.

Emulate class feature specifically notes that you level for the emulated class is your UMD check -20. So if you need to do something that only a 17'th level wizard can do (say the item requires 9'th level spells) you need to make a UMD check of 37. I think that also implies your effective caster-level is 17 if you actually roll a 37. You would also need at least a 19 int, or emulate that too. I have never used a UMD using class before so I am now trying to read the rules and they seem relatively straightforward.

The question is what where they thinking when they added rune-staves? Did they forget about how UMD works, or did they think that getting DC 40 checks reliably would be something reserved for epic levels? Like diplomancy.

Yeah, but hitting people with, say, a CL 30 blasphemy from a staff of blasphemy when your CL is 30 is actually using your "caster level" class feature.  So if you UMD and pretend to be a level 9001 wizard, you still won't be shooting out CL 9001 blasphemies.

That's wizards' stance, anyway.

[bearsarebrown]

You use UMD to act like you have a caster level of 30 to activate the staff, however, the staff does not use that CL 30. It only activates with it. Let me try at an analogy.

There is a Magical Chalice which turns normal water into Holy Water if someone turns undead within 30ft of it. You can UMD to pretend like you turned undead, thus gaining Holy Water. However, undead around you are not turned.

You act as if you have the class feature ONLY for item activation, not item use.

[Lycanthromancer]

A sparring dummy of the master. It's a monk-only item that permanently (ie, instantaneously) grants you 10' steps.

One more reason why monks suck.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

A sparring dummy of the master. It's a monk-only item that permanently (ie, instantaneously) grants you 10' steps.

One more reason why monks suck.

Of course, you have to get your UMD score high enough to make the check every hour for a rather long period.  Which is non-trivial if you're a warblade or whatever.

[awaken DM golem]

Lurk True Thief acf, gets that poorly worded Take 10 with class skills thing, UPD being one of them.
Magic Mantle with Ph00 and KellK's reading of it, equates UPD and UMD.
So ... just need those two class features, to get a Take 10 on UMD going.

LoP's Omni can use this.
Say hello to infinite UMD checks ... 

[karzzak]

Of course, you have to get your UMD score high enough to make the check every hour for a rather long period.  Which is non-trivial if you're a warblade or whatever.

I think this feat would work

Magic Device Attunement (Complete Mage)
You have a knack for activating familiar magic items.

Prerequisite: Use Magic Device 1 rank.
Benefit: If you successfully activate an item with the UMD skill, you can take a free action to attune yourself to the item. For the next 24 hours, you can activate that item without making further skill checks. You can attune yourself to only one item at a time. If you attune yourself to a second item, the previous attunement ends.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

You're not activating the item, though.  You're using the emulate class part of UMD, which is a different aspect of the same skill.

[Echoes]

You're not activating the item, though.  You're using the emulate class part of UMD, which is a different aspect of the same skill.

You don't use the Emulate a Class Feature ability to use a staff. You use the Use a Wand ability, which also covers other spell trigger items such as scepters and staffs.

Although you're right that you can't set the CL either way. You do, however, get to use your ability scores to set the DC.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

You're not activating the item, though.  You're using the emulate class part of UMD, which is a different aspect of the same skill.

You don't use the Emulate a Class Feature ability to use a staff. You use the Use a Wand ability, which also covers other spell trigger items such as scepters and staffs.

Although you're right that you can't set the CL either way. You do, however, get to use your ability scores to set the DC.

I was referring to the interacting of the feat in the post above mine with the monk's training dummy

[Echoes]

I was referring to the interacting of the feat in the post above mine with the monk's training dummy

Durr, I missed that for some reason. In that case, the feat works just fine. You don't use a separate action to use UMD and then use the item; otherwise, UMD wouldn't say "Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item".

When you go to use the dummy, you use UMD to convince it you're actually a Monk and the feat then lets it remember that for later.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I was referring to the interacting of the feat in the post above mine with the monk's training dummy

Durr, I missed that for some reason. In that case, the feat works just fine. You don't use a separate action to use UMD and then use the item; otherwise, UMD wouldn't say "Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item".

When you go to use the dummy, you use UMD to convince it you're actually a Monk and the feat then lets it remember that for later.

With wands you have to use UMD to activate it each time.  The feat works with that.

With things like the training dummy or a monk's belt, you aren't using UMD every hour to activate the item.  The item is already active.  You're making a UMD check to keep emulating the class feature, so your item doesn't decide "nah, he ain't a monk after all"

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Would you be able to benefit from UMDing a Codex Advocare if you weren't a Warlock?

[Jackinthegreen]

@Bow Of Songs, I think it's RAW and RAI cut and dry that it can be UMD'd. The example given in the PHB has a Rouge use a Turn Undead attempt to power a magic Chalice. The difference between a Turn attempt and Bardic Music in this case is trivial, they're both class features.

I wonder if WotC had any idea how dangerous a precedent they were setting...

Just reminding all that you can only UMD one race at a time. Iirc it means you can't pretend to be two different races even to two different items. Finally some limits.

Emulate a Mongrelfolk, or even BE a Mongrelfolk. Technically they are descended from humans, orcs, dwarfs, halfings, goblins, gnomes, elves, and probably a couple more races I forgot.  They automatically succeed in emulating any of their ancestor races, and based upon that I believe they can "emulate" multiple races at once.