I like the idea of a Sorcerer but dislike some of its mechanics. Options?

[Endarire]

I Know of Some Alternatives
I've played numerous prepared casters, but I enjoy the notion of being able to cast or manifest something I know when I need it.  Psions are generally considered what Sorcerers should have been.  Erudites can work well too, provided I get a steady stream of power stones and can work with the small number of unique powers per day.

Spell to Power Erudites, while seemingly cheesy, excel in their number of powers known.  Psions excel because of spontaneous access to any of their powers, and with power research and a willing DM, I can get the powers I like.

I like how metapsionic feats work with Psions and Erudites:  It's spontaneous but has the psionic focus as a toggle.

Alternatively, Wizards have numerous ways to cast at least some of their spells spontaneously.  Sorcerers are hurtin' for a place with these resources available.

The Sorcerer's Appeal
1: I like metamagic's ease of use.  It means I can use metamagic feats.  As a Wizard, I almost never prepare spells with metamagic feats which increase my slot level since I can buy metamagic rods and, hey, I can probably find better uses for those slots, anyway.

2: I like being able to spontaneously cast anything I know at full power with no extra charge.  Psions and Erudites require more PP for greater effect.  Sorcerers just cast their spells.

3: I can access Wizard spells and some Sorcerer-only spells.  Glitterdust, haste, and arcane staples are available as spells known.

The Sorcerer's Ickiness
1: Too.  Few.  Spells.  Known.  C'mon, people!  I know Andy Collins hated the Sorcerer, but surely we can do better now.  There are many ways to expand a Sorcerer's spell list, but it feels silly when a Bard knows more spells than a Sorcerer when attaining a new spell level.

2: Too.  Few.  Daily.  Castings.  (Focused) Specialist Wizards get similar numbers of daily castings to a Sorcerer.

3: Delayed.  Spell.  Progression!  Spontaneous casting is potent, but a Wizard has numerous tricks to cast his spells spontaneously.  It's like WotC realized far into 3.5 that they were mistaken to ever have printed the Sorcerer.  <shrug>

4: MAD.  Sorcerers get CHA-based casting by default.  CHA is the traditional dump stat.  Wizards and Psions get INT-based casting which bolsters their skill points and, debatably, general party usefulness.  Sorcerers need many of the same skill prereqs for their PrCs as Wizards, meaning they need more points in INT, and generally, other stats suffer.

I know there are tricks to mitigate the pain, such as a Dragonwrought Loredrake Kobold Sorcerer, but I've never been in a game of that op level where it's allowed or even encouraged.

[bananaphone]

I always thought Sorcerers should have gotten bonus feats like a Wizard.
The Sorcerer-only spells were nice, but that was at the tail end of 3.5 which meant there were very few.

[Solo]

Why don't you use Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer fix, as detailed in my guide?

[CantripN]

My home games use a Houseruled Sorcerer, and it rocks so hard, people take it as often as they do Wizard. It's about on par.

Changes: Bonus Feats as Wizard (1/5/10/15/20), Can take some Wizard ACFs (such as Martial Wizard) as well as all Sorcerer ACFs, Spell Progression is in all ways as a Favored Soul one level Higher (Favored Souls get the same boost). Draconic Rite of Passage and Loredrake are NOT ALLOWED.

It's really fun to play, let me tell you!

[gorfnad]

Maybe use the Pathfinder Sorcerer? All you need to do really is add Concentration back in as a class skill (they rolled it into a CL check) and change cantrips back to 3.5 sorcerer cantrips per day.

[ImmortalSoul]

Has anyone tried the Pathfinder Sorcerer as a substitute in a 3.5e game? If so, would you recommend it?

[Mixster]

A spell point based Wizard works much better if you can get it by your DM.

I'd allow it, due to the things you point out. I don't think it is better than a regular wizard, it just uses its high level spells more.

[RobbyPants]

1) A few extra spells known would be handy.  I really doubt the game would break if you simply added 1 to each spell level at all caster levels.  Then, when you gained a new level, you'd have two of your top level spell instead of one.  

2) Also, there is no reason whatsoever that a spontaneous caster shouldn't be able to use Quicken Spell.  Like, at all.  

3) Lastly, an easier spell swapping mechanic would help someone who picked a bad spell, and make it possible to pick a spell that's useful at low level and then to drop it at high level.

I think those three things would make the class more appealing.  It still wouldn't be a wizard at high levels, but it'd be solidly more playable and manageable.

[Vynar]

Now I don't think they ever finished it unless I missed something and I have not played it but the Frank/Paul Sorcerer might be worth looking at. Pretty much they get a familiar, other class features were not added yet, know every single core sorcerer/wizard spell, can learn non core spells similar to a wizard, but only get wizard table/2 rounded down (0 not -)

That is not a lot of spells per day but on paper it sounds cool. I don't really know what features you would add to it.

[gorfnad]

2) Also, there is no reason whatsoever that a spontaneous caster shouldn't be able to use Quicken Spell.  Like, at all.  

Just houserule in the Pathfinder version of Quicken Spell.

[jameswilliamogle]

How about asking it in the house rules section?

[RobbyPants]

Well, in theory, he was asking for RAW solutions.

[jameswilliamogle]

Has anyone tried the Pathfinder Sorcerer as a substitute in a 3.5e game? If so, would you recommend it?

I played a Pathfinder Sorcerer in a Pathfinder game.  Honestly, there's no point in playing a Wizard if thats an option.  Spamming spells all day, UMD, and spells known isn't an issue anymore (the Arcane Bloodline is the best one; get a raven familiar and do double duty by using UMD and wands, and you don't have to spend your spell slots on a lot of basic stuff).  The only thing a Wizard has over the Sorcerer in that situation is crafting (oh, and they put the Artificer on the PFSRD, how about that...).

I'd say just do the Uncanny Foresight trick for spontaneous casting Wizards instead.  One thing I noticed yesterday: one of the 1st level Illusionist Sub level in the SRD allows you to treat illusion spells as having spell mastery applied to them.  Or Alacritious Cogitation.

Anyways, don't forget that the Wizard gets 11 feats total if you are willing to stick it out through 20 levels, which ends up being a lot of spells mastered in the end.  Start w/ an 18 Int and you could be looking at 15 spells or so you can spontaneously cast.

Or, metamagic specialist and then pick up Acquire Familiar feat.  Or, not, and prepare spell.  Either way, you're only out a feat.

[juton]

Has anyone tried the Pathfinder Sorcerer as a substitute in a 3.5e game? If so, would you recommend it?

I played a Pathfinder Sorcerer in a Pathfinder game.  Honestly, there's no point in playing a Wizard if thats an option.

I've seen it in play, I assume you are talking about the rule where the Sorcerer gets an extra spell per sorcerer level. It's a lot stronger than a plain 3.5 Sorcerer in play, but side by side with a Wizard the PF Sorcerer wasn't dominating. That could be the players, it could also be the large allowed list of books which means that the Wizard had an even larger list of spells to choose. As an aside the Battle Sorcerer should be viable if using the extra spells rule, since you don't get those extra spells if you PrC.

[jameswilliamogle]

Could be the players, too.  Wizard wasn't doing much.  Ever.

[archangel.arcanis]

Has anyone tried the Pathfinder Sorcerer as a substitute in a 3.5e game? If so, would you recommend it?

I played a Pathfinder Sorcerer in a Pathfinder game.  Honestly, there's no point in playing a Wizard if thats an option.

I've seen it in play, I assume you are talking about the rule where the Sorcerer gets an extra spell per sorcerer level. It's a lot stronger than a plain 3.5 Sorcerer in play, but side by side with a Wizard the PF Sorcerer wasn't dominating. That could be the players, it could also be the large allowed list of books which means that the Wizard had an even larger list of spells to choose. As an aside the Battle Sorcerer should be viable if using the extra spells rule, since you don't get those extra spells if you PrC.

I looked over the PRD sorcerer and didn't see those bonus spell slots where is that rule at?

[veekie]

Has anyone tried the Pathfinder Sorcerer as a substitute in a 3.5e game? If so, would you recommend it?

I played a Pathfinder Sorcerer in a Pathfinder game.  Honestly, there's no point in playing a Wizard if thats an option.

I've seen it in play, I assume you are talking about the rule where the Sorcerer gets an extra spell per sorcerer level. It's a lot stronger than a plain 3.5 Sorcerer in play, but side by side with a Wizard the PF Sorcerer wasn't dominating. That could be the players, it could also be the large allowed list of books which means that the Wizard had an even larger list of spells to choose. As an aside the Battle Sorcerer should be viable if using the extra spells rule, since you don't get those extra spells if you PrC.

I looked over the PRD sorcerer and didn't see those bonus spell slots where is that rule at?

Bonus spells known, sorcs never really did lack for spell slots.
They get bonus spells depending on their bloodline, some of which are pretty usable.

[Epimetheus]

Only 1 extra spell known? Maybe a lot more would be better. Adding UMD, Diplomacy, d6 HP, and 4 skill points per level, to the class list would be good too.

However, Wizards who just buy a bunch of runestaffs and pearls of power might still better off, as they get to change their 'spells known' each day.

[BeholderSlayer]

Only 1 extra spell known? Maybe a lot more would be better. Adding UMD, Diplomacy, d6 HP, and 4 skill points per level, to the class list would be good too.

However, Wizards who just buy a bunch of runestaffs and pearls of power might still better off, as they get to change their 'spells known' each day.

I'm not familiar with a PF sorcerer, but he said an extra spell per sorcerer level.

[jameswilliamogle]

Yeah, that's a human special thing, I think.  Now, favored classes give bonuses, instead of taking penalties (which I really, really like).