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Author Topic: No-magic Archer Build  (Read 2245 times)
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altpersona
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2010, 12:59:17 PM »

getting hanks bow may be tricky.

i would play on the nostalgia aspect to induce it.
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2010, 01:56:10 PM »

Soulbow.
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2010, 02:18:43 PM »

Swift Hunter
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Rebel7284
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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2010, 02:53:15 PM »

I like manyshot Factotums.
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2010, 03:11:54 PM »

warlock
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2010, 03:24:47 PM »

warlock
I'm not sure that qualifies as no magic.  No spells maybe. Tongue
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2010, 04:37:09 PM »

Reposting from something Carnivore did way back:

Core-only Dragon Slaying Archer (Note: The magic items aren't absolutely necessary in this build, either, though they really help)
Core Dragon Slayer


This should be effective vs any creature....but especially vs Dragons(ANY)

try this ..... first what the Dragon of Similar CR can do.... CR 20 Red Dragon =


CR 20 Old Red Dragon

Gargantuan
HD 28d12+196 (378 hit points)
Speed:40 ft., fly 200 ft. (clumsy)
Initiative +0
AC 33 (–4 size, +27 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 33
DR 10/magic
SR 24
Sorceror caster lvl =11th , 5th lvl spells

35 Str
10 Dex
25 Con
20 Int
21 Wis
20 Cha

BAB+28/+52 Grapple
+36 Attack Bonus

saves(FRW) +23/ +16 /+21

Breath Weapon 16d10 (save DC 31) 60' cone

Frightful presence DC 29(240' range)
 
Blindsense (Ex): Dragons can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 60 feet. Opponents the dragon can’t actually see still have total concealment against the dragon.

Keen Senses (Ex): A dragon sees four times as well a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.

Skills:
Spot 36
Listen 36
Search 36

vs:

Human
Ranger 6/ Fighter 4/ Horizon Walker 6/ Shadowdancer 4

28 Str (Base 14+4 inherent +4 levels+ 6 item)
28 Dex (Base 16+5 inherent +1 level +6 item)
20 Con (Base 14+6 item)
12 Int (Base 12)
10 Wis (Base 10)
8 Cha (Base 8)

Feats:
1st lvl Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus(Composite Long bow)(human Bonus)
Track (Ranger Bonus)
Rapid Shot (Ranger Bonus)
3rd lvl Precise Shot/ Endurance (Ranger Bonus)
6th lvl Dodge/ Many Shot (Ranger Bonus)
Mobility (Fighter Bonus)
Combat Reflexes(Fighter Bonus)
9th lvl Quickdraw
Weapon Specialization(Composite Longbow)(Fighter Bonus)
12th lvl Shoot on the Run
15th lvl Improved Precise Shot
18th lvl Improved Initiative

Base Saves(FRW)15/12/6 ...
+1 Luck all
+1 Haste(Ref)
+5 Fort(con)
+9 Ref(Dex)
+4 Resistance(rod) all
+2 Morale All
final saves:
FRW 27/29/13

BAB +19
Attack: BAB+19 + 1 Haste + 1 Insight +2 Competence +7 Enhancement+ 9 Dex +2 Morale = +41 Attack

Full Attack with Rapid Shot and Haste @ 330'= +35/+35/+35/+30/+25/+20

Damage:
4.5 Composite Arrow + 4 Fav enemy + 2 Morale +1 Insight + 1 Competence +9 Str +2 Wpn Spclz + +7 Holy +7 Axiomatic +7 Bane +5.25 frost = average 49.75 points of Damage + 1pt Con damage with each hit(2 Hits do 28 additional points of Damage from Con loss)

estimate 1 1/2 rounds of Combat to Kill...if 4 shots Hit(199 damage+56 from con damage) round 1, 4 shots Hit(199 damage+56 from con damage) round 2

AC +1 Haste +1 Insight +2 Deflection(Magic Circ vs Evil)


Skills:.... these might be higher, havent checked for everything yet
29 Spot 23 ranks + 4 competence + 2 Morale
26 Search 23 ranks +1 Int+ 2 Morale
25 Listen 23 ranks+ 2 Morale
38 Hide 23 ranks + 4 competence+ 2 Morale+9 Dex
34 Move Silent 23 ranks + 2 Morale+9 Dex



[Horizon Walker Terrain Mastery chosen]
Desert: You resist effects that tire you. You are immune to fatigue, and anything that would cause you to become exhausted makes you fatigued instead. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against desert creatures.

Forest: You have a +4 competence bonus on Hide checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against forest creatures.

Mountains: You gain a +4 competence bonus on Climb checks, or a +10- foot bonus to your climb speed if you have one. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against mountain creatures.

Plains: You have a +4 competence bonus on Spot checks. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against plains creatures.

Underground: You have 60-foot darkvision, or 120-foot darkvision if you already had darkvision from another source. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against underground creatures.

Shifting (Planar): You instinctively anticipate shifts in the reality of the plane that bring you closer to your destination, giving you the spell-like ability to use dimension door (as the spell cast at your character level) once every 1d4 rounds. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against outsiders and elementals native to a shifting plane.

Stealth and Detection in Mountains
Stealth and Detection in Mountains: As a guideline, the maximum distance in mountain terrain at which a [COLOR="Red"]Spot[/COLOR] check for detecting the nearby presence of others can succeed is 4d10×10 feet. Certain peaks and ridgelines afford much better vantage points, of course, and twisting valleys and canyons have much shorter spotting distances. Because there’s little vegetation to obstruct line of sight, the specifics on your map are your best guide for the range at which an encounter could begin.

As in hills terrain, a ridge or peak provides enough cover to hide from anyone below the high point.

It’s easier to hear faraway sounds in the mountains. The DC of Listen checks increases by 1 per 20 feet between listener and source, not per 10 feet.

Items:

201300gp +1 Dragon Bane Flaming Frost Holy Axiomatic Wounding Composite Longbow(+9 Str)
27000gp 9x Greater magic weapon +5 (oil) 
22060 gp  +2 Luckblade(0 wishes)+1 Luck to all saves, and reroll any one Roll 1/day
50000 gp Rod of Flailing: Once per day the wielder can use a free action to cause the rod to grant her a +4 deflection bonus to Armor Class and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws for 10 minutes. The rod need not be in weapon form to grant this benefit. Transforming it into a weapon or back into a rod is a move action.
3350gp 50 Adamantine Arrows
700gp 50 Cold Iron Arrows
352gp 50 Alchemical Silver Arrows

238770gp +9 Inherent to Attributes
25000gp Greater bracers of Archery(+2 Competence Att, +1 Damage)
18900 gp +3 Banded Mail of Luck..... force opponent reroll att 1/week..didnt know what to pick?Confused
36000gp +6 Amulet of Con
36000gp +6 Gloves of Dex
36000gp +6 Belt of Str
5000gp Dusty rose Ioun Stone....+1 Insight to AC
6000 gp 2x +5 Oil of Greater Magic Weapon
20,000 gp Ring of Invisibility: By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.
2500gp 10x Elixers(5 Hiding, 5 Sneaking)
2000gp Handy haversack
3600gp 2x Efficient Quiver
2500gp Ring of Sustenance
12000gp Boots of Speed
2,250 gp Elemental Gem: ...Air...Large Air Elemental.... if needed...have the Air Elemental throw this(Dust of Sneezing and Choking) at the Dragon, if it tries to land and initiate Melee combat
2,400 gp Dust of Sneezing and Choking: This fine dust appears to be dust of appearance. If cast into the air, it causes those within a 20- foot spread to fall into fits of sneezing and coughing. Those failing a DC 15 Fortitude save take 2d6 points of Constitution damage immediately. In addition, those failing a second DC 15 Fortitude save 1 minute later are dealt 1d6 points of Constitution damage. Those who succeed on either saving throw are nonetheless disabled by choking (treat as stunned[/COLOR]) for 5d4 rounds.
1500gp 2x Potions Heroism(+2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks)



Overview:
This is a Ranged Attack Specialist ...... he is designed for Long Range Attacks, and Hit-and-Run tactics. this character can handle most anything thrown at him , in any circumstance, but Dragons are his specialty.... he Knows where they live, tracks them down..... prepares his assault, he knows thier Tactics,Strengths, Weaknesses. he then Plans his attack....while Hidden and Invisible.... he locates the battlefield, scouts the area for backup DD locations that give overlapping areas of Fire...so if he abandons one spot, he can direct fire back on his previous location(preferably from a Flanking Position)

he is patient...waits for his Prey...when he spots his prey.... he starts his Buffing...while remaining Invisible and Hiding, with Cover and Concealment.... then at the right moment(when the Dragon is leaving his Lair) he opens fire....usually when the Dragon is Flying AWAY FROM HIS POSITION or Directly overhead if possible(this is why he takes so long in scouting the area and his Preys habits)...remember old Dragons are CLUMSY flyers...they fly fast in a straight line, but cant manuver or stop very well..... the first Round is a Surprise Round, the second he will gain Initiative and fire a Second full attack.....there is no third round for the Dragon

and at the end of the battle.... this character is still ready to go for more..... he doesnt have to wait until the next morning to get more spells..... he is ready to take on some more Bag Guys RIGHT NOW:elf: :thumbsup:

More tactics:


although Dragons do have excellent senses.... they are not Omniscient, they dont know everything...

the Dragon will not know that the Archer is there...why?, because of the Dragons own limitations...look at his abilities again:

1)Blindsense (Ex): Dragons can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 60 feet. Opponents the dragon can’t actually see still have total concealment against the dragon................................this only helps if the creature that the Dragon is looking for is within 60'...outside of that range, he doesnt even know you are there

2)Keen Senses (Ex): A dragon sees four times as well a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet................................... this sounds great, but all it allows is for him to make SPOT checks at greater distances(incuring the same penalties.... for him to Spot my character @ 10'... he must beat my Hide Check( Hide 23 ranks + 4 competence+ 2 Morale+9 Dex+Invisible(If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Hide checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you’re moving))= 78 Immobile or 58 moving, with his Spot check (31 Ranks + 5 Wis) = 36....even if he took 20, he could not Spot my Character Moving

besides that..... my character is aware of HOW to Hunt Dragons,thier Senses, and Weaknesses...... My character can easily Find,stalk, and kill the Dragon ..... even if he saw him out in the open...he can Drop the Dragon in 2 rounds, before the Dragon can get to him..... he could even wait for the Dragon to See Him...Charge to Attack him, Hold an Action to DD when he gets 80' from him...and DD Behind the Dragon, who cant Stop Fast enough..and can only Slowly Turn...While the Archer...puts 2 rounds of Arrows into him

a Final Note about Capabilities:

Vs other things besides Dragons... he still does just fine.... he still gets the same Number of Attacks, his attack bonus goes down to +39 ... and the damage goes down an Average of 7 hp/shot , vs Undead or Constructs he dosent do Con damage...but Direct Damage still works just fine

the Main Weakness of this Character:

1)Melee Combat...... this guy is Death from Afar, but is much weaker in Melee, he can do it....but it is just more efficient to keep his distance...it is better to reach out and touch someone else, than to have them be able to touch you back.

2)Multiple Strong Foes ..... although he can Dispatch many very strong Enemies. large numbers of them can overwhelm him..... but at least he can escape(DD) and Hide...then Start attacking from Range again.
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2010, 05:30:33 PM »


Seconded.
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2010, 05:33:27 PM »

Quote
I like manyshot Factotums.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate that a little? Smile Sounds interesting, but a little weak in comparism.
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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2010, 05:45:25 PM »

Quote
I like manyshot Factotums.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate that a little? Smile Sounds interesting, but a little weak in comparism.

At level 8, a Factotum can spend Inspiration points to take another Standard action. Manyshot is a Standard action.
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« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2010, 05:50:23 PM »

OotBI is a terrible PrC. Yes, even straight fighter is an improvement over it.
Wasn't OotBI a better PrC back in 3.0?  I haven't looked at it in years.  If so, see if your DM will allow that.

It was. Complete Warrior managed to heavily nerf the very classes it was meant to help via stealth errata. Remember, you can use any 3.0 content that hasn't been reprinted. If it's reprinted as something worse, fuck you. And suck a barrel of cocks.
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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2010, 05:59:04 PM »

Quote
I like manyshot Factotums.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate that a little? Smile Sounds interesting, but a little weak in comparism.

At level 8, a Factotum can spend Inspiration points to take another Standard action. Manyshot is a Standard action.


manyshot is also a single attack roll.  Combine with Find The Gap for profit.
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« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2010, 06:34:57 PM »

Offensive version:
Ranger 2/Scout 4/Ranger+2/Scout+X

Ranger 1 Track
1st Point Blank Shot
Human Precise Shot
Ranger 2 Rapid Shot
3rd Improved Initiative
Scout 4(ECL 6) Swift Hunter
6th Improved Skirmish
Ranger 3 Endurance
Ranger 4(ECL 8) Manyshot (Champion of the Wild ACF (Complete Champion))
9th Greater Manyshot

Defensive version:
Ranger 3/Scout 4/Ranger+1/Scout+X

Ranger 1 Track
1st Point Blank Shot
Human Precise Shot
Ranger 2 Rapid Shot
Ranger 3 Endurance
3rd Steadfast Determination
Scout 4(ECL 6) Swift Hunter
6th Improved Skirmish
Ranger 4(ECL 8) Manyshot (Champion of the Wild ACF (Complete Champion))
9th Greater Manyshot

Better initiative and Imp Skirmish at level 6th or reduced MAD and not failing trivial Fort saves at higher levels. Really depends on stat rolls.

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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2010, 04:32:18 PM »

Offensive version:
Ranger 2/Scout 4/Ranger+2/Scout+X

Ranger 1 Track
1st Point Blank Shot
Human Precise Shot
Ranger 2 Rapid Shot
3rd Improved Initiative
Scout 4(ECL 6) Swift Hunter
6th Improved Skirmish
Ranger 3 Endurance
Ranger 4(ECL 8) Manyshot (Champion of the Wild ACF (Complete Champion))
9th Greater Manyshot

Defensive version:
Ranger 3/Scout 4/Ranger+1/Scout+X

Ranger 1 Track
1st Point Blank Shot
Human Precise Shot
Ranger 2 Rapid Shot
Ranger 3 Endurance
3rd Steadfast Determination
Scout 4(ECL 6) Swift Hunter
6th Improved Skirmish
Ranger 4(ECL 8) Manyshot (Champion of the Wild ACF (Complete Champion))
9th Greater Manyshot

Better initiative and Imp Skirmish at level 6th or reduced MAD and not failing trivial Fort saves at higher levels. Really depends on stat rolls.



With the offensive version, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate the Travel Devotion feat to maximize the Skirmish ability?
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2010, 06:24:02 PM »

Can you reliably get greater magic weapon from a friendly caster?
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2010, 07:22:21 PM »

With the offensive version, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate the Travel Devotion feat to maximize the Skirmish ability?

You could, and it would be great for a boss battle (rapid shot penalties are less then greater manyshot). Although to maximize it you'd have to either take it multiple times or dip cleric, and the second is probably against the flavor of the character. Although...

Here's a build that uses a Cloistered Cleric dip. The character concept is a "Travel Guide" and thus has Knowledge, Travel and Planning as his domain options. He trades the first two for devotion feats. If you don't want spells, give him a Wis of 10 and have him only memorize Create Water orisons (A Travel Guide is always well prepared!).

Str Okay / Dex Highest / Con Second / Int Okay / Wis ~10 / Cha ~8

Cloistered Cleric 1/Ranger 2/Scout 4/Ranger+2/(some combination of Ranger and Scout. Scout has better class features but Ranger has better BAB)

Cloistered Cleric 1 Knowledge Devotion -put at least 1 rank in all knowledge skills. All knowledge skills were
Cloistered Cleric 1 Travel Devotion
Cloistered Cleric 1 Extra Turning -with minimal charisma, you'll have 6 turn undeads/day. So 4 uses of travel devotion total.
1st Point Blank Shot
Human Able Learner (recommended for knowledge skills. otherwise, precise shot and take improved initiative at 3rd)
Ranger 1 Track
Ranger 2 Rapid Shot
3rd Precise Shot
6th Swift Hunter
Scout 4 Improved Skirmish
Ranger 3 Endurance
Ranger 4 (Champion of the Wild ACF) Blind-fight/Improved Favored Enemy/Manyshot(prereq for Improved Rapid Shot)
9th Steadfast Determination(if Con is much higher than Wis)/Improved Rapid Shot(take Manyshot with Ranger to qualify)

If you can have two flaws, I'd recommend the Mage Slayer line:
Mage-Slayer and Pierce Magical Protection at 1st with the flaws (congrats, you have a -7 caster level. no spellcasting on THIS character)
Pierce Magical Concealment at 9th, taking Blind-Fight with the Ranger level. (-11 caster level. Smile )

Mage-slayer Tactics:
Use an Elvencraft bow to threaten 5 ft around you...it's a good idea even without Mage Slayer.

When fighting casters, move 20 ft and then ready the Pierce Magical Protection standard action on the condition that they start casting a spell. Not only will you disrupt the spell with skirmish damage, but they'll lose bonuses to AC that come from spells (even including bite of the X spells and 98% of polymorph forms).

When fighting regular foes, travel devotion slaughter them. ^^
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 07:28:35 PM by skydragonknight » Logged

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Thread Necromancy a Specialty


« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2010, 11:12:19 PM »

Paladin smiting manyshot is a good damage dealer...
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Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

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« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2010, 11:36:21 PM »

Paladin smiting manyshot is a good damage dealer...

In a "smash evil" campaign and especially at higher levels, I'd agree. Though at mid levels, or for a dungeon crawl (LOTS of neutral monsters) Swift Hunter gets my vote if only because of good damage and scouting abilities.
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« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2010, 12:10:29 AM »

Quote
I like manyshot Factotums.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate that a little? Smile Sounds interesting, but a little weak in comparism.

At level 8, a Factotum can spend Inspiration points to take another Standard action. Manyshot is a Standard action.
I like this idea most.  I strongly recommend adding a couple levels of Chameleon afterwards so you can craft the necessary magic items to take your character up to the next level.

Paladin smiting manyshot is a good damage dealer...

In a "smash evil" campaign and especially at higher levels, I'd agree. Though at mid levels, or for a dungeon crawl (LOTS of neutral monsters) Swift Hunter gets my vote if only because of good damage and scouting abilities.
Don't mind Amechra, he's been on a Smite Evil bender recently.  A much stronger dungeon crawl archer play would be something along the lines of Paladin 5/Pious Templar 5ish/Gray Guard 10, assuming your DM allows you to treat your Pious Templar spells as Paladin spells for various effects (like Battle Blessing).  It won't just be Smite Evil that contributes to damage in that sort of build, either.  That said, it really is strictly inferior to the above Factotum Archer for all but a few attacks each day where an unaligned Smite is used.
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Thread Necromancy a Specialty


« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2010, 12:15:31 AM »

Yeah, well...

If we Gestalt a Factotum with your build, it would be something fun...
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Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing
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