No-magic Archer Build

[Glutton]

Easiest way to make archery viable with no magic: convince him to switch to Pathfinder or at least let you take Deadly Aim feat from it, which is power attack with a bow.

[Empirate]

Back to the mounted archery idea:

What about a small sized character on a medium sized mount? That way, you can go everywhere your party mates can go, and then some. Be a Strongheart Halfling or Whisper Gnome, preferably. Get a mount that either has a fly or a climb speed. The former is much more useful in the open, but a climb speed on a mount is great in dungeons.
How does riding a Celestial Medium Monstrous Spider (CR 1) sound for climbing? You should be able to get this as a Cohort by level 6 with some class levels tacked on as well (or templates, or advanced in HD, at least), and the image is just cool. Ravids (CR 5) are fun flying Cohorts, can Animate Objects at will and have a very decent AC (25). They should be available as a Cohort by level 7 or so. At a later point in your career, you might be able to get a Young Copper Dragon cohort, which can fly and spiderclimb at will and is quite powerful itself, to boot.

[carnivore]

got a couple of Low-Magic/No Magic builds ... will post them later .... all should be very playable

 

[MrBumberdumble]

got a couple of Low-Magic/No Magic builds ... will post them later .... all should be very playable

 

Awesome.  Thanks!  

So far, some variation of the Scout/Ranger many shot build looks like the best bet.  It actually makes a lot of sense for his character from an RP perspective, too.  Now, here's another question for you guys.  If he does go that route, what type of feat selection would you recommend for 12,15,18 levels?  Edit:  Also, the scout bonus feats at scout 8,12,16.

[Lycanthromancer]

Not to beat a(n un)dead horse, but that soulbow? The mind arrows stack with magical bow properties. And greater magic weapon.

A +24-equivalent weapon by level 20? Yes please!

[MrBumberdumble]

Not to beat a(n un)dead horse, but that soulbow? The mind arrows stack with magical bow properties. And greater magic weapon.

A +24-equivalent weapon by level 20? Yes please!

Yeah I ran everything in this thread by my buddy, and for RP reasons, he wants to go the scout/ranger manyshot build.

I'm just wondering what the best feat progression would be after level 9.

I was thinking Deadeye Shot and Woodland Archer for two of them, but there are 4 more open feat slots in that build.

[snakeman830]

Not to beat a(n un)dead horse, but that soulbow? The mind arrows stack with magical bow properties. And greater magic weapon.

A +24-equivalent weapon by level 20? Yes please!

Considering the Mind Arrow is fired by your mind and not a bow, and doesn't exist until you fire it, how do you get those benefits (including Greater Magic Weapon)?

[Lycanthromancer]

Not to beat a(n un)dead horse, but that soulbow? The mind arrows stack with magical bow properties. And greater magic weapon.

A +24-equivalent weapon by level 20? Yes please!

Considering the Mind Arrow is fired by your mind and not a bow, and doesn't exist until you fire it, how do you get those benefits (including Greater Magic Weapon)?

Well, greater magic weapon is magic, obviously, but you should be able to get a repeat-use item of some sort easily enough.

But the class actually allows you to create arrows, that can be fired without a bow.

However, they ARE arrows, and nothing precludes you from also using a bow.

[carnivore]

except the wording of the Soulbow Class ability ... notice:

"Mind Arrow (Su): As a free action, you can create a semisolid arrow composed of psychic energy distilled from your mind. If your base attack bonus is high enough to grant you multiple attacks, you can create multiple mind arrows as part of an attack. You must have one hand free to create and project a mind arrow.

The bolt is identical in all ways (except visually) to an arrow shot from a composite longbow. For instance, a Medium soulbow materializes an arrow that speeds toward the specified target, and if it hits, deals 1d8 points of damage (crit x3) plus extra damage equal to the soulbow's Wisdom modifier. Soulbows who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind arrows identical to arrows shot from composite longbows appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the arrow's damage (see Table 7-4 and Table 7-5 in the Player's Handbook). You gain the usual benefit to your attack roll from a high Dexterity bonus.

Whether a mind arrow hits or misses, it dissipates 1 round after being shot. A mind arrow is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A mind arrow can be charged with a psychic strike as if it were a mind blade. If a soulbow has enough soulknife levels to have the knife to the soul ability, that ability also applies to her mind arrows.

You can use feats such as Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot in conjunction with a mind arrow (see bonus feats provided by the class for further guidance). You can also choose mind arrow for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade. Any feats previously requiring specific weapon choice (such as Weapon Specialization) for your mind blade also apply to your mind arrow, if applicable.

Your mind arrows improve as you gain higher levels. At 3rd level, a mind arrow gains a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls, and at 7th level the bonus improves to +2. These enhancement bonuses stack with previous enhancement bonuses gained earlier for your soulknife class levels. Likewise, these enhancement bonuses also improve your soulknife base attack bonus. If your return to your soulknife class progression, these mind arrow enhancement bonuses on attack and damage are cumulative bonuses on top of any new enhancement bonuses gained, and they benefit both your mind blade and mind arrows.

Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), you can attempt to attack foes with mind arrows by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, you can freely produce mind arrows for a number of rounds equal to your class level before you need to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, you must wait 1 round before trying again while you remain within the psionics-negating effect."
  ...........................................


also how is it that you are suggesting using GMW ... since you materialize each Mindarrow when you need it ... what "Weapon" are you casting the spell on?

 

[Lycanthromancer]

except the wording of the Soulbow Class ability ... notice:

"Mind Arrow (Su): As a free action, you can create a semisolid arrow composed of psychic energy distilled from your mind. If your base attack bonus is high enough to grant you multiple attacks, you can create multiple mind arrows as part of an attack. You must have one hand free to create and project a mind arrow.

You can project it with a projectile launcher. It is, after all, a projectile, and you need a free hand to draw arrows from a quiver anyway.

The bolt is identical in all ways (except visually) to an arrow shot from a composite longbow. For instance, a Medium soulbow materializes an arrow that speeds toward the specified target, and if it hits, deals 1d8 points of damage (crit x3) plus extra damage equal to the soulbow's Wisdom modifier. Soulbows who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind arrows identical to arrows shot from composite longbows appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the arrow's damage (see Table 7-4 and Table 7-5 in the Player's Handbook). You gain the usual benefit to your attack roll from a high Dexterity bonus.

Materializing the arrow is a free action, but firing the arrow is a standard- (or part of an attack-) action. Thus, materializing and firing are two different animals.

Thus, you should be able to fire from a bow, if you 'draw' the arrow from your brain and fire it separately.

also how is it that you are suggesting using GMW ... since you materialize each Mindarrow when you need it ... what "Weapon" are you casting the spell on?

 

If you're using a +1 bow of +9 something-or-other, that should explain itself, yes?

[carnivore]

except that it says ...the Arrow is already Speeding towards the Target .... you materialize an arrow that "Speeds" towards the target, it is already moving ... it is not two different actions .... also your "Mind" is the thing that "Projects" the arrow to the Target

notice also that it is "identical in all ways (except visually) to an arrow shot from a composite longbow" ... not "to an arrow that you can shoot from" ..... you materialize a Speeding projectile on its way to a target, not materialize one in your hand and then send it on its way

 

[MrBumberdumble]

Any ideas on the feats?  He's not going Soulbow

[X-Codes]

Any ideas on the feats?  He's not going Soulbow

Theres a swift hunter guide just for this kinda thing.

[skydragonknight]

Scout feats:
Quick Reconoiter is a good one. +2 initiative and "I always have my guard up"
Improved Initiative is a good feat, if you don't already have it.
Quick Draw is *bad* since you can draw a weapon as part of a move, and drawing arrows is a free action. Also a weapon crystal can do this if you're paranoid.
Of the rest...Alertness, Danger Sense, Great Fortitude and Iron Will are usable. Mobility is pretty good for this character, but it requires Dodge, a terrible feat. If you can take Expeditious Dodge (races of the wild?) instead, those two would synergize well since the character is always moving.

Regular feats:
If you're going with Travel Devotion-Rapid Shot, then Able Sniper and Woodland Archer-both from Races of the Wild-are best.
Improved Precise Shot isn't bad. "If I can see it I can hit it." That's a good regular feat slot when BAB is +11...level 15 I guess.
There's a feat in Dragon Compendium...Dead-Eye? That's a good one if allowed. Adds Dex or 1/2 Dex to damage, I think.
Martial Stance (Child of Shadow) is good. An item of Cloak of Deception is the best way will qualify you.
There's more out there, I'm sure, but I'd have to dig.

Equipment:
Ask for Bracers of Archery or anything that increases attack bonus to make up for Manyshot's penalty. You deal 0 damage if you miss.

[carnivore]

quick questions:

1)what is the starting level?

2)have you looked here for more info: Archery Handbook

3) are these PrCs allowed : Horizon Walker or Jaunter

4)is anything specificly not allowed?

 

[MrBumberdumble]

Hey guys sorry for the delayed response.  I've gone over some stuff with my buddy.  He doesn't want to take any caster levels, and wants to go straight ranger/scout, so we decided to go the Manyshot route instead of the Travel Devotion/Rapid Shot route.  I know it's not optimized, but it's for RP reasons.  There aren't any feats that are not allowed, unless they are very region/campaign specific.  Most of the forgotten realms and eberron stuff is fine, though.

So far he wants to go with one of the builds suggested above.

Ranger 2/Scout 4/Ranger +2/Scout +X

This is the feat progression he came up with based on some of the above suggestions.  Some of them do not make sense, though, and I'm hoping you guys can help me optimize (as I mentioned above) the feats above level 10.  Any help tweaking this would be awesome.

The level 8 feat comes from the variant that drops spell casting in exchange for bonus feats.

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Class Ranger 1 Ranger 2 Scout 1 Scout 2 Scout 3 Scout 4 Ranger 3 Ranger 4 Scout 5 Scout 6 Scout 7 Scout 8 Scout 9 Scout 10 Scout 11 Scout 12 Scout 13 Scout 14 Scout 15 Scout 16

Feat (Chosen Class Abilities in Parentheses) Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot (Rapid Shot) Improved Initiative Swift HunterCSc, Improved SkirmishCAd Manyshot Greater ManyshotXPH Deadeye ShotPH2, Woodland ArcherRotW Able SniperRotW Weapon Focus (Bow) Improved Precise Shot Improved Critical

[carnivore]

just so you understand a little about what can be done ..... here is a simple Fighter 12 for Comparison:

NO Magic Archer:

Human
Fighter(Thug Variant) 12
Attributes(32pt buy)
17 Str(16 +1 lvl)
18 Dex(16 +2 lvl)
14 Con(14)
14 Int(14)
8 Wis(8)
8 Cha(8)

Feats:
Education(Human bonus)
1st lvl: Exotic Weapon(Greatbow)
2nd lvl: Point Blank Shot(Fighter bonus)
3rd lvl: Knowledge Devotion
4th lvl: Weapon Focus(Fighter bonus)
6th lvl: Weapon Specialization, Rapid Shot(Fighter bonus)
8th lvl: Manyshot(Fighter bonus)
9th lvl: Ranged Weapon Mastery
10th lvl: Greater Weapon Focus(Fighter bonus)
12th lvl: Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Rapid Shot(Fighter bonus)

Skills:
Max out :
Knowledge(Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, Religion, The Planes)
Skill Trick: Collector of Stories

Armed with only the Following Equipment:
5400 Dwarvencraft Serren Wood Mighty(+3 Str) Composite Great Bow
15gp 100x Alchemical Silver arrows
10gp 100x Cold Iron arrows
1005gp 100x Flametouched iron Arrows(Considered Good Aligned)
2500gp 50x Razorfeather Arrows(considered Adamantine and Keen)
250gp Masterwork Tools(Field manuals for 5 Knowledge Skills for Knowledge Devotion)

Attack ability:BAB +12 +4 Dex +4 Insight(Knowledge dev) +1 GWF +1 WF +2 RWM +1 PBS +1 Enhancement(Masterwork) = +26 to Hit
Damage:1d10 Greatbow arrow=5.5 Ave +4 Insight(Knowledge dev) +3 Str +2 WSp +2 GWSp +2 RWM +1 PBS +1 Enhancement = +20 Damage with each hit

Full Attack with Imp Rapid Shot= +26/+26/+21/+16 with 20 damage with each hit, as a Full round action
Manyshot = +20/+20/+20 as a Standard action

All attacks are considered Ghost Touch and can change Ammo to overcome DR (Adamantine,Cold Iron, Alchemical Silver, Good)

all this at any time and under any circumstances ... not just when Skirmishing .... and this is only a 12th lvl Character who has NO MAGIC ITEMS at ALL

 

[Amechra]

Is there a way to get more attacks with Manyshot?

I could post a build, but first, 2 questions: what percentage of enemies will be evil, and would the DM allow you to take a to-hit penalty from Power Attack with a bow without getting a bonus to the damage with it?

[McPoyo]

Is there a way to get more attacks with Manyshot?

I could post a build, but first, 2 questions: what percentage of enemies will be evil, and would the DM allow you to take a to-hit penalty from Power Attack with a bow without getting a bonus to the damage with it?

Greater Manyshot, from the EPH.

[PhaedrusXY]

Is there a way to get more attacks with Manyshot?

I could post a build, but first, 2 questions: what percentage of enemies will be evil, and would the DM allow you to take a to-hit penalty from Power Attack with a bow without getting a bonus to the damage with it?

Greater Manyshot, from the EPH.

That doesn't give you more attacks. It just lets you do more with them.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot