Was The Party Doomed From The Start?

[McPoyo]

Or 20 feet if you full run, since SF doesn't prevent that. Either way, its 10 feet of movement at the least. That's a lot fewer checks to make to get out of an evards, or the ability to harry the npc spellcaster while the others get out.

[Kajhera]

Or 20 feet if you full run, since SF doesn't prevent that. Either way, its 10 feet of movement at the least. That's a lot fewer checks to make to get out of an evards, or the ability to harry the npc spellcaster while the others get out.

According to the movement rules, if your movement's impaired, you can't run or charge.

[McPoyo]

Still 10 feet from a double move, which is half the distance needed. That's what Ronda two is for.

[Epimetheus]

*yawn* At this point, we're just repeating the same old arguments and counter-arguments. The earlier pages of the thread go over all of this. I'm still not sure why this thread was revived.

[Gods_Trick]

And keep in mind, we're reading and quoting the rules at our leisure. And we're a pretty rules savvy bunch. Depending on how Innabinder presented the information, possible example, "Your move speed is reduced to 5 ft", its reasonable to panic and delay/hope someone has a plan.

I remember a campaign that almost TPK'ed because a player was convinced Prismatic Wall only lasted one round, causing him to convince the party to wait it out. Gave the BBEG Sorceror an extra turn to cast something that wrecked us.

[McPoyo]

Readied actions, in that case. Or Delay.

[InnaBinder]

<snip> Depending on how Innabinder presented the information, possible example, "Your move speed is reduced to 5 ft"<snip>

FWIW, I presented it as "Who has their PHb open?  Read Solid Fog aloud, please."

[Gods_Trick]

<snip> Depending on how Innabinder presented the information, possible example, "Your move speed is reduced to 5 ft"<snip>

FWIW, I presented it as "Who has their PHb open?  Read Solid Fog aloud, please."

That may have been worse unless there was some discusion after Inna. Again, the fact we're debating how it works here indicates understanding can be inequal and, definitely not immediate.

Readied actions, in that case. Or Delay.

You must know some impressive newbs McPoyo 

[McPoyo]

They both have their own headers in the combat chapter, which is pretty short all things considered. I've also never had anyone out of the 50+ I've introduced to the game in the last decade not ask if they could change when they went. The ranged from 12 to 53. Maybe it's just the people near me, but this seems pretty simple and straight forward.

[Rejakor]

any creature attempting to move through it progresses at a speed of 5 feet, regardless of its normal speed

It doesn't change your base speed to 5' while moving through it, it turns any ACTION to move through it into 5' of progress.  So if you tried to full run you'd get 5'.  Double move uses two actions, so gets 10'.

Considering you just misunderstood the rules text and you claim to be an ultraexperienced veteran who's introduced dozens of people to the hobby, I don't really see how you could expect new players to get that you could doublemove for 10' movement, especially if Innabinder didn't tell them/didn't get it himself.

Even if people had doublemoved, anyone who lost to the wizard in initiative was still gonna get Tentacled, and that's after the wizard (20 int and all) spent his surprise round quaffing a potion or whatever.

[McPoyo]

And that reads to me as "your speed becomes five feet while attempting to move, instead of whatever it would normally be". I can see how you obtained your interpretation, but 10 feet of movement in a round is still 10 feet a round. The personal attack wasn't really helpful in supporting your point at all, and is irrelevant. I mentioned that specifically in relation to the question about newbs being to unknowing to delay or ready actions.

It seems you are predicating all of this one the assumption the wizard would omgnuke anyone stepping outside the cloud so it was pointless to try and obtain situational awareness of the battlefield,  which should have been the first priority of anyone involved, whether by moving out, or dispelling, etc.

[Rejakor]

What part of 'they couldn't physically get out of the solid fog before the tentacles hit' do you not get.

Also, there is a clear rules difference between 'attempting to move' (an action-triggered effect) and a debuff 'your speed is reduced to 5 feet'.


My point, that you read Solid Fog wrong, when you, according to you, are a very experienced gamer, was intended to prove the point that you can't expect new people to know what everything does.  When it says 5' movement, they'll think they can only go 5'.  It wasn't a personal attack, although thanks for painting it as one.

It's also pretty amusing that you think that i'm saying that they shouldn't have left the solid fog.  What?  I'm saying they didn't and they couldn't, not that they shouldn't.  Been saying that pretty clearly and four or five times now.

More, even.

[McPoyo]

Two rounds of double movement still gets them out, even if they were in the exact center. It's 20 radius.

Fog went down in round 1, tentacles hit in round 3.

And once again, "attempting to move through it progresses at a speed of 5 feet" means setting a speed, not changing an action's function. Do you have a reference for this action limitation interpretation rule, because I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Here's something that may help: I've run a scenario like this twice with new players,  both groups said "we need to get out of this so we can see again to even have a chance to fight back". One of the times involved an ambush by crossbow wielding rogues when they came out of the fog. It's entirely doable, but you need to take the initiative instead of hanging around for the other guy to do something again.

[Rejakor]

Tentacles hit in round 2.

You're missing the goddamned point.  They didn't know they could double move and Binder didn't tell them.  Evard's hit exactly ONE round after solid fog did.  Luckily, binder hit them with a 10' nerfed evard's by accident because he read the entry wrong.  However, it still covered most of the party, who had all moved 5' on their turns.  And then the kineticist used dimension swap, which insta-ends your turn when you use it, and struggled 5' towards the edge of the solid fog and then died to the vortex of teeth.

The Int 20 wizard wasted turns, didn't prebuff, didn't get a surprise round, all of which I would call fudging, and still raped the party.  Could it have been different if they moved 10' instead of 5'?  Yeah, maybe.  If the kineticist or one of the other casters had gotten out he might have been able to do something.  However, he might not.  Especially since the wizard was invisible until he cast vortex of teeth.


You are so very wrong about what i'm arguing, too.  You keep trying to say that the party hung about in the fog when they shouldn't have and that's why they died.  If you call 'being newbs and thinking they could only go 5 feet'  'hanging about in fog', then yeah, sure.  If you call 'being grappled' 'hanging about in fog', then yeah sure.  But if that's what you're calling 'hanging about in fog', then your view of the world is very odd compared to mine.

[McPoyo]

I'm arguing that the encounter wasn't a guaranteed wipe against the party. Was it strong? Certainly. Could they win? Unless the dice completely hated them, yes. But dice rolls aren't indicative of the encounter. The character sheets were never posted, so no one can claim for certainty the PCs "couldn't" have persevered had they rolled halfway decently, especially since the Evards was 1/4 the size of the fog. That it still caught most of the party, after randomly determining location is just sheer bad luck.

The party wasn't doomed. They had better than average odds to defeat the encounter, luck just screwed them. 5 ECL 6 and one ECL 5 characters, three of which were primary casters vs a CR 7 caster attacking from hiding. That comes out to an ECL 7 party vs a CR 8-9, which is certainly winnable. There were a lot of failed rolls in those 5 rounds. This is a pretty reasonable fight, would you have advocated obviously pulling punches to save the party?

I guarantee you from now on they pack a dispel magic.

[Rejakor]

You're.  Missing.  The.  Point.   

1.  InnaBinder TOTALLY MENTIONED that the party had ZERO counters for Evard's after he dropped the 'tentacles from the ground' hint.  ZERO.  THAT MEANS THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY.

2.  So there's your argument of 'they could have been pun pun and just decided not to use that earthshaking power cause they were dumb!'.

3.  'luck just screwed them'.  As i've conclusively fucking proven, THEY HAD NO WAY TO GET OUT OF THAT SOLID FOG BEFORE EVARD'S HIT.  So, you are saying that it was a simple matter of grapple/escape artist checks and it was all bad rolls?  Well.  Let's challenge that assumption.  CL 7 caster, Evard's has a +15 on it's grapple check.  Due to stupids, Crusader and Paladin were outside grapple.  That leaves the dex based fighter/ranger, a sorcerer, a kineticist, and a rogue/shaper.  Highest grapple check probably +8.  Highest escape artist probably +10, that's max, especially considering none of those classes other than the rogue have it as a class skill.

If/when they make their escape artist check or grapple check to leave the grapple, they then have, in that turn, ONE move action left.  Which they can only use to move 5'.  And then they get grappled again.  Solid Fog + Evard's = Multiple rounds of being screwed even if you make your escape artist checks.  Far better to make initial grapples, but the weaker characters relying on escape artist wouldn't be able to do that.

4.  'pulling punches'.  Actually, what i'm advocating is a basic knowledge of the players, and a basic knowledge of their character sheets, so you can design encounters that aren't going to TPK the party in the first place.  As for pulling punches, well, let's look over some of the sillies in this fight, shall we?

Int 20 Wizard:
Wasted surprise round on a minutes/level buff he could have already had up/didn't ever use.  (He could have Solid Fogged + Evard's before the fight began, esp. with Nerveskitter or similar up)
For some reason was using a 10' Evard's, not a 20' Evard's.
Spent a round growing wings, a 10 min/lvl buff he could have had up previously, and that he didn't even get much use out of.
Delayed using his aoe damage over time spell in order to get wings

Int ?? Players:
Weren't spread out (again, not a tactical error given the nature of threats often faced by PCs)
Didn't double move in the solid fog (this is the kind of thing the GM should really clue new players into)


And.. that's it.

The Int 20 wizard made far more mistakes than the PCs did.  Enough that i'd call it pulling punches regardless.  If you're going to have your wizard waste rounds doing silly things, why not have him use a less lethal combo to capture the PCs/force them to talk/come to an agreement with him about picking the plot macguffin.  Just as much punch-pulling either way.


5.  'Hur hur they'll be ready for it next time hur hur'

I don't care.  Point of this thread is that Inna is saying that this encounter was a fair enough encounter and that only bad luck killed the PCs.  Or he's asking if it was or not, I don't care.  Well, it wasn't luck.  It would have required extreme luck to get out of that situation once it was launched.  When that wizard used his combo on the bunched PCs, it was 99% going to be a TPK.  So, unless you WANT it to be a TPK, it was a mistake.  Mistakes are fine.  People justifying mistakes as bad luck or warranted or whatever isn't fine.  It's stupid.

Learn from mistakes.  Don't make them again.  Become better at what you do.  Don't write it off to 'chance' or whatever.  Be honest with yourself about it.


6.  'Hur hur I think the CR system means something with full casters and BFC spell combos about they were totally in CR range hur hur'. 

Not even going to respond to this one.

[McPoyo]

Why the insultory tone? Seriously? I've yet to insult, attack, or even use harsh language towards you. I'd expect the same courtesy back.

Spoilered for extreme length.

1. He also stated well before then that "they inched towards the edge of the fog", which indicates they weren't reacting to the situation. Maybe that's InnaBinder's fault for not describing it in a way they would grasp, but it's still a player tactics error.

2. Never made such an argument. Please quote me instead of pulling crap out of a hat to show where you believe I argued that.

3. Having to roll 5 points higher on the die on an opposed escape check is "can not get out"able? Really? Having to roll 8 higher on the die to escape via grapple is a hell of a lot harder, but still doable if you are lucky on your rolls as the ranger, the casters probably weren't making it, though. If they seriously had absolutely no counters (provide his quote on that, please, me wading through 10 pages to find your proof of that statement isn't going to happen), then that's a bad build, and entirely the fault of the DM for not being fully enough aware of the party's limitations. Right now, without seeing the character sheets, I don't honestly think that's the case. There's quite a bit of stuff that can be done to escape grapples, or at least boost the escaping checks.

4. The wizard had sandbagged actions. That's not "Oh, suddenly he goes to shooting magic missiles instead", or "He's only casting every other round and using much weaker spells now", that's "okay, I'm not trying to nova on an unsuspecting party because that's just ridiculous", which is exactly what I'm talking about. They had a chance to notice him, and didn't (btw, the DMG states that it is reasonable to assume the PCs are taking 10 on spot and listen checks whenever they aren't actively looking. The listen check to hear someone spellcasting is pretty low, considering they have to speak the words "in a clear, strong voice" per the PHB). Unless he did this WAY outside of hearing range, they had a good chance to notice him. From the way InnaBinder described it, the spot check wasn't outside their possibility to make, either the wizard rolled well, or they hadn't invested much of anything into being aware of their surroundings. The first one is luck, the second one is poor PC building. Also, You can be super-humanly intelligent and not be a master of combat tactics or practical spell application. There's no way that behavior on the wizard's part can't be easily explained without breaking verisimilitude.

5. No, it wasn't 99% going to be a TPK. Let's review: No surprise round, so no double spell combo before the party could act. First spell the party reacted badly towards. a 20 foot radius spell can be gotten pretty far out of by the party with 10 feet of movement, unless they were all standing in the same center square, in which case no they were screwed to get out before spell two. They also moved away from each other, "inches away from each other toward the edges of the fog". The Evards was 1/4 the total area of the fog, and was randomly determined for location within the sphere and just happened to get a lot of the players. Unless they were really unlucky, that's pretty shitty luck that a 20 foot diameter circle nails 4 of the 6 PCs after they moved away from each other. Even with only a single move action of 5 feet, that's pretty bad luck that out of the 40 foot diameter of fog, 1/4 of it happens to nail the party perfectly on random die determination for location. Two were out, and the others failed an escape artist check by needing to roll 5 over the DM on the dice if they had good Escape artist, since the Evards has a grapple mod of +15 (how did you come by a +10 maximum? At level 6 they could have had a 9 from ranks alone. It's not a bad number, but I'm curious as to why you chose that as your baseline). Three people get out because the kineticist swaps positions with the paladin, who then gets out as well. So half the party is out and cannot be at less than half health at this point, unless they have a 0 or lower con mod and rolled below average for all their hit die, since they've had two rounds of 1d6+4 damage at most, and it isn't automatic. There's a roll. So two rolls to deal damage each round if the PCs are attempting to escape that have to be failed, since the tentacles don't auto-succeed at starting the grapples. Is it tough? Sure. They had to get hit by the tentacles who have a +10 to their touch attack, then fail a grapple check, then fail a grapple check to escape. That touch attack modifier pretty much guarantees a hit against them, the two subsequent checks could still be made, though. If even one of them is made, it makes taking more 1d6+4 damage harder, or negated entirely.

The Vortex of teeth pretty much guaranteed the casters at least going into the negatives assuming average rolls for HP and damage. 28.5 total damage for two rounds of grapple + vortex against an average hp that wouldn't break that unless they had a +2 con mod. This was four rounds in, however. On top of this, the Crusader "was unable to target the wizard effectively". I don't know exactly what that mechanically means, but it sounds like he couldn't achieve LoS to the guy. This is still the second round the crusader has been unable to find the wizard.

I am being honest. It wasn't "99% going to be a TPK". Related: What do you consider "requiring extreme luck" to win? Please quantify, don't just use nebulous terms.

Tough? Absolutely. Did it get really tough when the PCs started failing checks that were within reason to make? Hell yes. Knowing that second one is going to happen before the fight is impossible. A lucky crit from a CR 1/2 medium creature with a longbow will drop almost any level 2 beatstick from full HP, and will drop anyone with a D6 or lower up to level 4-ish. Does that mean medium sized longbows without feat assistance should only be used against parties of 5+ level characters? No. Just because it COULD happen, doesn't mean it will, and is a really bad way to design encounters unless you are 100% against PC death. In those cases though, the DM is likely to fudge the dice to protect the PCs instead of gimping down the appearance of the encounters.

6. Why not respond? It's a reasonable assumption, especially considering the action economy the party had in their favor. They were 1 level of spells behind with three primary casting PCs, and another 2 beat sticks and a ranger. On paper, that's a damned good close-to-even pairing. The ambush from hiding made it more in favor of the NPC Wizard, but not something that should have guaranteed a TPK. At least one PC going into negatives? Yes. A TPK? No. Especially looking at the numbers I already listed in this post.

Conclusion: "The raw numbers didn't make this unwinnable, but did spell selection and circumstance combine for a hopeless scenario?  Short of fudging, what are the suggestions of the hive mind?"

To answer InnaBinder's original question above, no. Spell selection and circumstance didn't combine for a hopeless scenario. They created a tough scenario that the rolls of the dice made hopeless. Short of breaking verisimilitude by grossly pulling back the wizard for no explainable reason short of "DM doesn't want to kill us", there were no options to salvage this once it started going down hill for the PCs, since it really hit that point when VoT was cast and dropped people. This isn't something where attack rolls could be fudged. This is something where people playing like their enemies can't use the same resources the PCs have access to didn't prepare against the inevitable.

[McPoyo]

Hey, McPoyo - Which is more common?

Sneaky monsters that ambush you; Ranged attackers that ambush you; Closet trolls that ambush you;  G.O.D style BFC wizards.


And of the G.O.D style BFC 'wizards', which is a more common combo?  Wall Of Ice to split the party + melee brutes to eat cut off party members, or solid fog + evard's black tentacles + aoe constant damage spell?

Replying to this from earlier, since I failed to answer it: In my experience playing, running, and playing/watching at con-games, of those choices God-style BFC wizards, or ranged ambush with spellcasting support for ambushing parties. More common combos, once again in my experience, tend towards completely locking down the party and stacking constant damage spells, or completely locking down the party and killing them via status effects or ability/level damage. I've never once seen, used, or had used against me, a wall-of-ice followed by melee beatsticks mopping up the PCs. It's always been a solid fog or other lockdown effect (Entangle is much more common in those situations, once again, ime) followed by constant damage effects.

[InnaBinder]

Clarifying a point:

"On top of this, the Crusader "was unable to target the wizard effectively". I don't know exactly what that mechanically means, but it sounds like he couldn't achieve LoS to the guy. This is still the second round the crusader has been unable to find the wizard."

It meant the Wizard was on the opposite side of the Solid Fog, in the treeline, while the Crusader was unable to fly.  He would have had to shoot his (normal) bow through Solid Fog and the cover of trees; I'd call it theoretically possible but statistically unlikely.

[Rejakor]

'inching towards the edge of the fog' WAS BECAUSE THEY COULD ONLY MOVE 5'.  If you ACTUALLY READ what BINDER POSTED you can SEE that they spent the round they were solid fogged before tentacles MOVING 5' TOWARDS THE EDGE.

Which is all they thought they could do.  And all Binder thought they could do, too.  Unless he's a gygaxian DM who loves going after the fact 'YOU COULD HAVE DOUBLE MOVED LOL NOOB' when the player says 'alright, I move towards the edge as fast as I can'.


As for the 'insultory tone', whatever that is, i'm not inserting lots of 'oh well *I* think it's this way but whatever I mean we're all friends and that's what's important right' because I don't really think you're 5 years old.  If you can't deal with contradictory points of view without excessive padding, possibly try a bit harder not to misread posts on a continual basis in a way that ALWAYS supports the point you're trying to make.  Little tip:  Normally, people who often misread things misread them in both ways, not ways that always support their viewpoint.


2.  You were saying the party just had bad tactics.  You've said that a bunch of times.  One of the things that implies is that they had options they didn't use that were better than the options they used.  Binder stated that they didn't have those options on their sheets, so unless they could pull them out of magical fairyland like saying pazuzu three times fast, then they couldn't have undertaken those options because they didn't have them.

3.  WHAT PART OF THE WORD 'MAXIMUM' DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.  The average grapple of those casters was likely something more like +3, and the average escape artist for the people who had 'trained it' was more likely something like 5, or 6(3 or 4 ranks(crossclass), +2 or +3 dex).

4.  -1 per 10'.  DC to hear people talking is 0.  MAXIMUM listen mod was probably +12 (ranger, max ranks and wis of 16, so, unlikely).  So, to make it impossible, he'd have to be 300 feet away.  That's for the spell.  You can chug a potion without speaking loudly, and why he couldn't chug it pre-combat we will NEVER KNOW.  You can be good at combat tactics without being intelligent.  That's how 'being trained' works.  However, if you are superhumanly intelligent, you are going to be able to work out that maybe you should drink your potion BEFORE you approach the people and start the fightings.

Sandbagged actions is pulling punches if there is no reason for those sandbagged actions.  I don't really think the Alter Self was unreasonable in combat.  A BIT unrealistic, sure, but not versimilitude breaking.  Not using the surprise round in an ambush, though?  That's punch pulling.

5.  YOU HAVE YET TO PROVE THE PARTY 'REACTED BADLY' TOWARDS THE SOLID FOG.  FUCKING.  PROVE.  IT.  BEFORE.  YOU.  STATE.  IT.  AS.  A.  FACT.

PCs got nerfed by 5' movement only in solid fog instead of being able to double move.  Caster got nerfed by 10' Evard's.  The two things balance each other out.  If anything these mistakes tilt in favour of the party because they have more chance of escaping the evard's cause they have to spend less rounds being regrappled while moving.  So that makes the encounter as written even MORE ridiculously TPKish.

PLEASE LEARN HOW GRAPPLE WORKS.  IF THEY ESCAPE AND THEN GET GRAPPLED AGAIN, WHICH THEY WILL, BECAUSE AFTER YOU LEAVE A GRAPPLE YOU ONLY HAVE ONE MOVE ACTION LEFT AND CAN ONLY MOVE 5' CAUSE OF SOLID FOG SO YOU GET GRAPPLED AGAIN NEXT ROUND, THEY STILL TAKE GRAPPLE DAMAGE.  GETTING GRAPPLED CAUSES GRAPPLE DAMAGE.

In order to escape in the first place they need to beat the DMs roll by, at best, 10 or more.  Then they don't even get out of the area of effect.  Then on the caster's turn they get GRAPPLED AGAIN LOL.  And hey if this goes on for 2 rounds, which it will, 1 round if the caster didn't herp derp pop wings lol, you're getting EATEN BY TEETH FOR THE WIN while it happens!

Oh, and, by the way; A wizard has a first level spell that gives him +10 on hide checks.  Alter Self into a whisper gnome gives +8.  Alter Self into that MMIII thing gives +16 or something.  There's a cloak in AEG that gives +4 to hide in wilderness environments.  He could have had 5 ranks in it, and a dex of +2, and that cloak or similar camo gear, and gotten a +9 mod pretty easily, without buffs of any kind.  Plus he was an amount of distance away from the PCs, and had cover.  Let's say he was 70' away, had trained hide, and had mundane camo robes (+2 skill tool).  +7 hide, +2 skill tool, +7 (70' away) = +16 to hide.  If he rolls a 10 (or takes 10) on his hide check, that's DC 26 spot to spot him.  The ranger is the only one who could have feasibly maxed out spot, and let's say he has.  He has 9 ranks, and +2 wis.  He has a masterwork skill tool, but he's not using it, and so doesn't get the bonus.  11+11=22.  22 != 26.  With buffs, even if the wizard rolls a 1 and the ranger rolls a 20, the ranger does not see the wizard.  At least without houseruled 20 autosuccess on skill checks rules.

So uh, yeah, they totally didn't build their characters right.  That's why they didn't spot the wizard.  It's not like spotting enemies is really hard if they're any sort of distance away and have any sort of Hide training or equipment or buffs.

Oh yes, and on this topic, to silence the INEVITABLE counterpoint - but the wizard wouldn't just walk off and buff and then come back!  Well yes, he would, and while he was at it he'd put up False Life and Mage Armour and Shield and Displacement and Blur and the innumerable other buffs he might want to have, and then he'd wander back and Solid Fog and Tentaclerape the party.


So... so far, you've completely ignored the fact that winning one grapple check against the Evards doesn't stop it, because Solid Fog is around it and you get tentacled AGAIN if once you move your 5' away from the Evard's effect.  And that most of the people caught in the Evard's had very little chance of making those checks.  And that even the beatsticks would have been held up for rounds even with the Wizard faffing about casting Alter Self and chugging potions.

It was also unlikely they'd spot the wizard and stop it being an ambush, given distance modifiers to spot DCs and the ABUNDANCE of ways to buff Hide.


So.. y'know.. if you throw this encounter against the PCs... they're going to get Solid Fogged and then Evard'sd in the surprise and first rounds.  Then, 2nd round, VORTEX OF LOLS.  Then, dead party.  Punches were pulled and this encounter STILL fooked the PCs, despite them making very few or zero mistakes.  THUS, IT IS A BAD ENCOUNTER.

Even without a surprise round, unless one of the PCs is an ubercharger and instaKOs the wizard, then, they still die.  AND THAT IS A BAD ENCOUNTER TOO, BECAUSE INSTAKO ISN'T REALLY CHALLENGING OR FUN.  ROCKET TAG IS BAD, MKAY.


As for your last point.. jesus.

6.  Alright, let me answer this question in the form of a question.  Which do you think is more 'challenging'?  A level 7 wizard who has prepared Hold Portal and Magic Missile and Analyze Dweomer as his combat spells for the day, or a level 7 wizard with Fog Cloud, Evard's Black Tentacles, Alter Self, False Life, Empowered Lesser Orb Of Cold, Searing Quick Maximized Quick Empowered Fireball?  Do you think they are both CR 7?  There is no such thing as a 'standard wizard'.  A wizard is defined by what spells he has prepared, and thus, his CR changes depending on what he has prepared.  The second question.  Do you think a party of unoptimized Fighters will find certain encounters as easy as a party of optimized Wizards?  Do you think they should fight the same CR encounters?

The only meaningful evaluation of an encounter is specific.  The CR system is a guideline, an often inaccurate one.  It's entirely possible to kill a CR 10 party with a CR 1 encounter, with zero chance of the party living.


And finally.

The encounter didn't become 'deadly' when the wizard used Vortex of Teeth.  The encounter became deadly when Inna threw a wizard with those spells prepared and that attack strat and that ambush position against the party.  The point it became a TPK was when they failed their autospot checks.  Solid Fog + Evard's + Vortex of Teeth is a death knell for a party of that composition and preparedness level.

Punches were pulled, in the form of lol surprise round potion chug, and in the form of lol alter self, and STILL the encounter TPK'd them.  That's a pretty resounding piece of proof for 'perhaps it was a poorly designed encounter'.