Hide (Was: What SHOULD be banned?)

[AleksanderTheGreat]

Um, in metal gear solid people still see the box. 

This thank you.

HIDING=/=INVISIBILITY

When you suceed on an hide check, it doesn't mean necessarily that they don't see you. It can also mean that they look at you, but they don't realize it is you, because you're standing still enough and blend in with the scenario.

So no you're not making the tower shield disapear in mid air. You're simply making it look like it's just a piece of abandoned debris whitout interest.

This is also my take on Hide.

[Gods_Trick]

Um, in metal gear solid people still see the box. 

This thank you.

HIDING=/=INVISIBILITY

When you suceed on an hide check, it doesn't mean necessarily that they don't see you. It can also mean that they look at you, but they don't realize it is you, because you're standing still enough and blend in with the scenario.

So no you're not making the tower shield disapear in mid air. You're simply making it look like it's just a piece of abandoned debris whitout interest.

This is also my take on Hide.

Theres a lot more to say on this topic, but perhaps a thread for it in particular? Someones already asked to drop it so we can keep the thread useful.

[oslecamo]

The_Mad_Linguist:Yes, hiding the shield behind the shield it's stupid. Hiding yourself behind yourself is equally stupid. That's why I said using the shield for cover as the rules sugest.

People hide all the time without solid cover. Your skull itself obscures 3/4 of your vision area, and that only counts 2d movement. Your hands, equipment, all these generate temporary cover and concealment. Your mind isn't helping too, it takes shortcuts to 'draw' what you see and fill in the blanks. So hiding in plain sight is simply moving the right way.

Hell, I'd even let sufficiently good Hide training generate Concealment, as you duck around and generally be a pest by partially obscuring their vision with their own weapon. Hiding an object behind itself however is too looney tunes, it messes up the tone of the game.

Except that like you just pointed out, that's not hiding, that's concealment. Your oponent won't get a clear image, but he's still geting glimpses of your movement, and knows you're there. Our minds are precisely prepared to react to movement.

Now it may make for a nice combat style to prevent the oponent from geting a clear shot at your squishy bits, but it's precisely the oposite of stealth. You're guaranteed to clearly stand out as much as the wizard casting mirror image.

[veekie]

It is however, perfectly possible to move in someone's blind area, the concealment trick assumes you're already in their field of vision, and while the system does not differentiate facing, the Perception and Stealth skills are the abstractions for looking in the right place at the right time, and being in the right places at the right time not to be seen. You are assumed to be looking everywhere at once, and by that same standard, you are thus not looking at everything in your field of vision at once.

[Echoes]

It is however, perfectly possible to move in someone's blind area, the concealment trick assumes you're already in their field of vision, and while the system does not differentiate facing, the Perception and Stealth skills are the abstractions for looking in the right place at the right time, and being in the right places at the right time not to be seen. You are assumed to be looking everywhere at once, and by that same standard, you are thus not looking at everything in your field of vision at once.

Plus Fucking One.

When you sneak up behind someone in real life, that isn't concealment. Concealment means they know to a pretty good degree where you are (within a 5 ft. square), they just can't pinpoint you well enough to aim an attack. Hiding means they don't know you're there at all.

And again, the question must be asked: why is an opposed check more immersion-breaking than the tower shield paradox hack^TM? What possible benefit is there in forcing mundanes to carry around tower shields just so they can do what, in real life, you can just do by being stealthy? If the point of the system is to create a reasonably playable facsimile of real life, than shouldn't you go with the rules that not only help build that verisimilitude but also make life easier for the nonmagical people?