Is the idea of an "off topic" dip at level one worth considering?

[charleskoz]

Thanks to everyone who helped with my prior thread. I've decided to construct a beguiler//erudite for our gestalt campaign.

Now my optimizing mind is going into overdrive, though. The beguiler has a really great ability if you take all 20 levels in it so I don't want to touch that, but I'm wondering if it is worth considering giving up a level in psion to "play around" a bit with a single level in a class that's not really relevant to my chosen path but could provide me with some valuable abilities.

For example, starting out as a beguiler//fighter would give me:
- 4 extra HP.
- +2 to Fortitude saves.
- A bonus feat.
- +1 (+1/2?) BAB.

Another example might be the swashbuckler to get the extra HP and saves and free Weapon Finesse (though this character won't be meleeing much).

Or if I take scout then I get an extra 8 skill points at first level along with +2 to Reflex saves and "baby skirmishing" (1d6).

An Ardent could give some nifty domain powers... as could a Cleric.

A Ranger would give +2 to Fort Saves, +2 to Reflex saves, BAB, favored enemy and Track feat.

Doing this means giving up some stuff on the Erudite side later on though:
- About 40 power points (a lot, making it the major consideration here).
- Some powers known (not a big deal).
- A +1 to will saves at level 20.

What do y'all think?

[JohnnyMayHymn]

I don't think it's worth it, except maybe a (cloistered) cleric dip, or ardent

it's probably too late, but if you just want to play with blasting, beguiler // dragonfire adept  ...(breath effects here)

you already want a high int and con anyway... not the most optimized choice, but I think it would be fun

[weenog]

For example, starting out as a beguiler//fighter would give me:
- 4 extra HP.
- +2 to Fortitude saves.
- A bonus feat.
- +1 (+1/2?) BAB.

If you're thinking about dipping in some sort of fighting man class, and you're allowed, consider Warblade.  Compared to the fighter dip you'd get +2 hp, +2 skill points (and a much better class skill list), -a bonus feat, -some weapon and armor proficiencies you don't care about anyway, +scent (Hunter's Sense stance), +Int to Reflex saves*, and +a few low-level maneuvers**.

*:Yes I know Reflex is generally considered the least important of the saving throws.  He's going to have huge Int and itty-bitty hp, though.
**:If you make Moment of Perfect Mind one of your warblade maneuvers, that slight loss of Will save from one less Erudite level won't hurt you much.  When it's really important, make a Concentration skill check instead.

Ignore me, posting too tired to remember certain important details that make this not a great idea.

[skydragonknight]

Hmm...what do factotums get at level 1 besides trapfinding?

[zugschef]

Hmm...what do factotums get at level 1 besides trapfinding?

all skills as class-skills, cunning insight and cunning knowledge...

[Drammor]

Hmm...what do factotums get at level 1 besides trapfinding?

all skills as class-skills, cunning insight and cunning knowledge...

Too bad 3 levels is nothing like a dip. Brains over brawn + true strike 3/encounter is so tasty. Cunning insight's not bad, though.

[kremti]

I agree that cloistered cleric is *maybe*, and possibly the best option.

-K

[kalaskaagathas]

Hmm...what do factotums get at level 1 besides trapfinding?

all skills as class-skills, cunning insight and cunning knowledge...

Too bad 3 levels is nothing like a dip. Brains over brawn + true strike 3/encounter is so tasty. Cunning insight's not bad, though.

Eh, a 3 level dip in Factotum for an Int focused character isn't awful - you delay, but only delay, your 9th level spells/powers, but you get to focus all the more on Int and get some interesting toys in the bargain.  Combine with Keen Intellect from some Dragon or another and you get Int to Dex, Str, and Wis based skills and checks (including your Will save).  Not bad, even if it's not necessarily as good as getting 9th level spells/powers as early.

[charleskoz]

Can't do the Factotum (don't have that book). Also I just realized that this dip will also cost me a feat at level 20... which makes it probably not worth doing.

Thanks for the replies.

[awaken DM golem]

As far as a 1 level dip goes in general, many classes benefit from specific 1 level dips.


Rogue 1 / Int or Cha Caster 19 ... has been a standard for quite some time.
Wis Caster isn't quite as good, but it's just a matter of degrees.

Monk 1 / Druid 19 ... is the rather tasty version of a Monk.

Wilder does better with a 1 level dip, but tries to keep it there. Usually PrCs though.

Cleric 1 ... has it's own dip thread, it's that good.

Aristocrat 1 with Mercantile feat ... starts with the most moolah and has that item discount thingy all career.
Daddy said I'm cute too.
etc