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Thistledown Thurbertaut
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« on: October 02, 2010, 11:17:04 PM » |
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I was recently shown this class. Is it broken or overpowered? Right off I thought that doing Con damage on each hit at 5th level is a bit much... how does that compare with the level where Martial Adepts start doing Con damage? What about altering it to be a PRC that you can only enter at 6th level? That way the Con damage shows up at level 10, the weapon cogs aren't so unbalancing and the now level 20 capstone feature is just hillarious! Would that seem better to the community? And what would be good requirements to enter into it? What kind of Mechanus flavored base classes are out there? Artificer comes to mind but are there others? I could also see it being an Epic progressing class from the capstone of a 15th level renegade mastermaker. Any thoughts? |
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Bozwevial
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 11:21:42 PM » |
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It's a Tome class. It's designed to be competitive with Wizards, Druids, and the like with very little work. As far as most "normal" D&D games go, it's definitely beyond the average power level, and definitely better than the PHB Fighter, but meant to be on par with the Tome Fighter. So it's really only meant to see use in high-powered games, preferably ones using Tome material.
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Thistledown Thurbertaut
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 11:35:08 PM » |
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Yeah...and good luck finding a group that plays with the Tome...
But anyways, any thoughts as to my idea to make it a PrC and what classes/requirments would work well?
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 12:18:04 AM by Thistledown Thurbertaut »
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2010, 12:09:33 AM » |
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Frank has his own method for "balance". It tends to disagree with that of, well, everyone else.
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Thistledown Thurbertaut
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2010, 12:18:29 AM » |
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So you are saying it IS broken then...?
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veekie
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2010, 12:23:21 AM » |
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It's balanced for Tome, but not for Core except for Wizard, Cleric and Druid.
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Thistledown Thurbertaut
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2010, 12:46:31 AM » |
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What about my PrC idea? Would it help if it was a PrC from levels 6-20?
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 12:53:48 PM » |
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What about my PrC idea? Would it help if it was a PrC from levels 6-20?
What veekie said. It'll be balanced for a while, and only compared to good tiers.... |
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veekie
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 01:23:54 PM » |
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In essence, Tome is basically 3.5....that assumes Tier 1 is more or less the correct level of power to have and makes everything appropriately.
That said, they have POWER similar to T1 classes, but decidedly not the flexibility.
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 02:56:45 PM » |
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It's not even close to being on the level of a Tier 1 class. Heck, it's barely on the Tier 2 level, if it even gets there. It's probably the weakest of Tier 2, or the highest of Tier 3. At lower levels the Weapon Cogs are unnecessarily powerful, but beyond the first few levels Tome of Battle characters will seriously be able to keep up for a while, up until probably somewhere around either level 7 or 9. From there it never really gets to Tier 2 level in my opinion, it's just more powerful than any Tier 3 class needs to be.
Strangely it has no HD. Probably d10 or d12.
EDIT: As a melee prestige class you probably could get away with this guy. It doesn't have real gamebreaking powers, it's just stronger than it needs to be throughout gameplay. A Warblade can be that way in the first three or four levels.
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 03:20:52 PM by bkdubs123 »
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Thistledown Thurbertaut
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2010, 03:19:51 AM » |
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Thanks for the input. Interestingly enough I found a DM running a Tome game who is going to let me try it out as is...
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2010, 04:40:36 AM » |
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Hey, let me know how it goes. I'm intrigued now.  |
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2010, 02:54:07 PM » |
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I think the only things it needs to be completely fine in any D&D game are: 1) Clarification that no matter how many needles you get hit by from the Chain Gun greater cog, you only take the Con damage from the wounding effect once. After all, it is only one attack roll, no matter how many needles you get hit by (i.e. d6 of damage you take). This is kind of like an attack with a built-in power attack function that automatically lowers your attack by the most beneficial amount, so I think it would actually be OK in practice. It's quite a nice mechanic I think, actually. 2) The "Furnace" greater weapon cog attack should be changed to a standard action instead of an attack action. I'd also change it to scale with levels, instead of just being stuck at 10d6 forever. It should probably have a few more abilities added at levels 16-20, though. I think Frank just got bored and quit there.  This is actually pretty weak compared to most "Tome" classes. |
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« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 02:56:47 PM by PhaedrusXY »
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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Thistledown Thurbertaut
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 03:56:08 PM » |
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For anyone still curious about an Update, the game has been going well. I took 7 levels of Mechanus Warrior and just Prestiged into Goem Knight of Mechanus. After the 5 levels of that I'll finish off with the last 8 levels of Mechanus Warrior. A VERy interesting and powerful synergy is that with Mechanus Warrior and the Tome Feat Master Crafstman I'll be able to create ANY magic item in half the time and with the Golem Knight features my DM will let them not even count as magical... can I get a w00t?!  |
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