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Author Topic: Universal Class (and some house rules)  (Read 7869 times)
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SiggyDevil
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Magmar, the ultimate butthead

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« on: September 27, 2010, 08:08:59 PM »

The Universal Class
Also known as The Hero.

This is yet another attempt at rebalancing Dungeons and Dragons class issues, somewhere around number 5 by my efforts.
All players and monsters follow these rules and select a template to specialize their abilities.
Old class abilities are now all feats, learned at levels as appropriate to the original class.

 Hit Points
• Add a character's Constitution score to their Hit Points at first level, in addition to adding the bonus from the Constitution modifier per level.
• Class templates provide more Hit Points for levels beyond 1. A character can not progress beyond first level if they do not have a class template.

 Skill Points
• 4 Combat Skill Points each level.
• 4 Non-Combat Skill Points each level.
• An additional amount equal to Intelligence bonus number of Skill Points are also gained each level. These points may go to any type of skill.
• Do not multiply Skill Points by 4 for Level 1. Instead, each time a natural 20 skill check is rolled, add one rank up to a maximum of +3 for each skill, and no more than once each week.
• An Intelligence score low enough to subtract Skill Points takes away from any amount in the Combat and Non-Combat skill pools of the player's choosing.

Feats
• 4 feats at level 1.
• +1 feat each level after the first.

Saves
• All Save bonuses advance at a rate of 1/2 level, rounded down. They stack with the bonus from the class template and any other bonuses.

Attacks
• Everyone has full Base Attack Bonus progression (+1 BAB each level).
• Attacks made after the first in a Full Attack are all -5 penalty to hit.
• Full Attacks are a single standard action.
• Melee damage dealt is equal to the Strength bonus for each limb holding a weapon. When using the Power Attack feat, add the extra damage for each limb holding a weapon.

 Proficiencies
• All Light Armor, Shields, and Simple Weapons may be used without penalty.

Specials
• The number of Specials known is equal to a character's Intelligence modifier, and an additional +1 Special known each level.
• The title of "Special" includes Spells, Invocations, Psionic Powers (assume maximum power points spent), Maneuvers, and similar. Specials must be trained to ready for the day.
• The maximum Special level known for a character is half their level, rounded up, whenever applicable. If a spell or power belongs to multiple class lists, use the lower slot level. A character's ability scores don't put an upper limit to the highest Special slot level known.
• Save DCs are derived from the Charisma score (10 + 1/2 level + CHA modifier).
• An Intelligence score low enough to subtract Specials known is prevented from learning and using them. until their level or traits raise the total number of Specials known above zero.

Mana Usage
• "Mana" is a numeric total equal to the Wisdom score. Magical Specials deplete it when used, and can't be used if there is no Mana and if they have a Mana cost.
• Specials of the highest Special level known for a character cost 2 Mana.
• Specials of the second highest Special level known cost 1 Mana.
• Specials lower than the second highest Special level cost nothing.
• Mana recovers entirely after a night of sleep, or at a rate equal to the character's Wisdom bonus +1 (rounded up) after each hour of rest.
Exceptions:
• Extraordinary Specials don't use Mana.
• Invocations use 1 less Mana than normal.
• Class ability Invocations (and other Spell-Like Abilities) such as Eldritch Blast don't cost Mana.

Training
• Learning or re-learning a Special, Skill, or Feat takes 1 week and a D20 roll against DC 11. Failing the check means training time was without results. This is assuming a written guide or tutor can be found, otherwise the duration of training is measured in seasons (10-12 weeks), with 4 seasons in a year.




Class Templates (choose one):


No Class (default)
Hit Points
  Use CON score for starting HP
Skill Points
  4 Combat skills
  4 Non-Combat skills
  + INT Skill Points
Specials
  1 Special per level
  + INT Specials known
  Use WIS score for Mana
  WIS + 1 Mana recovery each hour
Feats
  Simple Weapons proficiency
  Light Armor proficiency


Warrior
Hit Points
  +15 HP each level
Saves
  +2 Fortitude
Feats
  Melee Focus
  Range Focus
  Martial and Exotic Weapon proficiency
  Medium and Heavy Armor proficiency
  Guts


Expert
Hit Points
  +10 HP each level
Skill Points
  +4 Skill Points each level
Saves
  +2 Reflex
Feats
  +1 Feat
  Martial Weapon proficiency
  Medium Armor proficiency
  Evasion
Other Traits
  +2 Competence bonus to Initiative rolls


Mage
Hit Points
  +5 HP each level
Saves
  +2 Will
Specials
  +2 Specials known
  +8 Mana
  +2 Mana recovery per hour
Feats
  Mettle
  Special Focus
Other Traits
  Detect Magic as a Supernatural ability
  Prestidigitation as a Supernatural ability
  Read Magic OR Summon Instrument as a Supernatural ability

Balanced
Hit Points
   +10 HP each level
Skill Points
  +2 Skill Points each level
Saves
  +1 to all saves
Specials
  +1 Specials known
  +4 Mana
  +1 Mana recovery per hour
Feats
  +1 Feat
  Martial Weapon proficiency
  Medium Armor proficiency



Feats List
Feats must be trained. See the section "Training" previously.
Unless mentioned otherwise, a feat may not be taken more than once.

Dodge
+1 Insight bonus to AC and again every 5 levels after (6, 11, and 16).

Aim
+1 Insight bonus to attack rolls and again every 5 levels (6, 11, and 16).

Dash
+10 Competence bonus to Movement Speed and again every 5 levels after (6, 11, and 16). This feat may not be taken more than 3 times.

Train Ability
+2 bonus to any single ability score. This feat may not be taken more than 3 times per ability score.

Stamina Plus
+5 HP each level. This feat may not be taken more 3 times.

Extra Skills
Gain +2 skill point per level. For each level after, gain +2 skill point as well. This feat may not be taken more 4 times.

Extra Specials
+1 Special known.
+4 Mana
+1 Mana recovery per hour
This feat may not be taken more than 3 times.

Special Focus
Attack rolls and save DCs of Specials the character uses get +1 bonus. This feat may not be taken more than 3 times.

Train Saves
+1 bonus to all Saves. This feat may not be taken more than 3 times.

Armored Casting
The character may cast arcane spells without Arcane Spell Failure in any armor they are proficient in.

Martial Weapons Training
The character is proficient with Martial Weapons.

Exotic Weapons Training
Requires Martial Weapon proficiency.
The character is proficient with Exotic Weapons.

Melee Focus
The character gets a +2 Competence bonus to melee attack rolls and +1 melee damage per level if they are proficient with Martial Weapons.
The character gets a +5 Competence bonus to melee attack rolls and +2 melee damage per level if they are proficient with Exotic Weapons.

Range Focus
The character gets a +1 Competence bonus to ranged attack rolls if they are proficient with Martial Weapons.
The character gets a +2 Competence bonus to ranged attack rolls if they are proficient with Exotic Weapons.

Medium Armor Training
The character is proficient with Medium Armor.

Heavy Armor Training
Requires Medium Armor proficiency.
The character is proficient with Heavy Armor.

Unique Style
Replace any single ability score bonus instance with that of another score.
This feat may be taken no more than three times, applying a different bonus to a different instance each time.
Example: Replacing Strength with Dexterity for the purpose of melee attack rolls, using Strength instead of Intelligence to determine extra Specials known, or Charisma applied to Will saves instead of Wisdom.

Guts
The character takes no damage or effect on a successful Fortitude save against an effect.
After level 11 the character takes half damage even on a failed Fortitude save against an effect.

Evasion
The character takes no damage or effect on a successful Reflex save against an effect.
After level 11 the character takes half damage even on a failed Reflex save against an effect.

Mettle
The character takes no damage or effect on a successful Will save against an effect.
After level 11 the character takes half damage even on a failed Will save against an effect.



Skills

Combat Skills
These skills are either can be used during combat, or used to avoid combat.

Autohypnosis
Balance
Climb
Concentration
Disguise
Escape Artist
Heal
Hide
Jump
Listen
Move Silently
Ride
Spellcraft
Spot
Swim
Truespeak
Tumble
Use Magic Device

Non-combat Skills
These skills are not capable of being used during combat or have no direct effect on combat.
Social skills are included here although they might be used to deter or incite hostility.

Appraise
Bluff
Craft
Decipher Script
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Forgery
Gather Information
Handle Animal
Intimidate
Knowledge
Open Lock
Perform
Profession
Search
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Speak Language
Survival
Use Rope



Monster Type Conversions
In general, monsters follow the same universal level rules for players.
Everyone gets the same basic HP, Skill Points, Base Attack progression, specials, and number of feats, which makes conversion a simple process of figuring out which class template to apply.
Some monster types have unusual traits such as Darkvision, immunities, or lacking certain ability scores. Apply these kinds of changes normally, but don't alter the number of feats, Skill Points, HP per level, and similar level traits.
A mindless (null ability in Intelligence) monster gains no Feats or Skill Points, but retains Specials as by their level.

No Class [Level 1 only]
• Humanoid (unless another class template is chosen for the PC)

Warrior
• Construct
• Dragon
• Elemental (Earth or Water)
• Giant
• Ooze

Expert
• Monstrous Humanoid
• Elemental (Air or Fire)
• Vermin

Mage
• Aberration
• Fey
• Undead

Balanced
• Animal (-4 or -5 Specials and Skill Points due to INT score of 2 or 1)
• Elemental (Mixed)
• Magical Beast
• Outsider
• Plant

Specials Conversion
• Extraordinary Abilities don't cost Mana. They aren't magical.
• Spell-Like Abilities:
If an SpL is normally at-will, it costs no Mana.
If an SpL is normally between 1 per hour to 3 per day, it costs 1 Mana.
If an SpL is normally 1 per day, it costs 2 Mana.
• Supernatural Abilities don't cost Mana. Changing a SpL ability to Su costs one feat per spell effect; after doing so, the character may either leave the Special in their known list, or remove it (doing the latter doesn't deny the use of the Supernatural ability).




[size=18]Partial Premade Characters[/size]
These are to showcase the extreme ranges of specialization using the Universal Class.
• Ability scores: Elite Array, 15 14 13 12 10 8
• STR  DEX  CON  INT  WIS  CHA


The Fighter, a standard double swords person
• Warrior
• STR 19 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 8
Train Ability (STR) x2
Two Weapon Fighting
Stamina Plus
HP at level 1: 36
Melee Attack Bonus: Longsword +10 or +6/+6
Longsword Damage: 1d8+6 twice
Specials:
Magic Weapon or Divine Favor (Attack +11 and 1d8+7), or Wolf Fang Strike (Maneuver)
Expeditious Retreat


The Archer, avoids direct combat but aims clear
• Warrior
• STR 12 DEX 19 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 10 CHA 8
Train Ability (DEX) x2
Rapid Shot
Point Blank Shot
HP at level 1: 31
Ranged Attack Bonus: +7 or +5/+5
Arrow Damage: 1d8
Specials:
Magic Weapon or Divine Favor (Attack +8 and 1d8+1), or Child of Shadow (Maneuver)
Expeditious Retreat


The Archer, version 2
• Expert
• STR 12 DEX 19 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 10 CHA 8
Train Ability (DEX) x2
Rapid Shot
Point Blank Shot
Sneak Attack (Rogue)
HP at level 1: 26
Ranged Attack Bonus: +5 or +3/+3
Arrow Damage: 1d8 or 1d8 + 1d6 Sneak
Specials:
Magic Weapon or Divine Favor (Attack +6 and 1d8+1), or Child of Shadow (Maneuver)
Expeditious Retreat


The Boxer, will punch your lights out Heihachi style
• Warrior
• STR 19 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 8
Train Ability (STR) x2
Flurry of Blows (Monk)
Unarmed Strike (Monk)
HP at level 1: 31
Punching Attack Bonus: +10 (or +8/+8 with FoB)
Punching Damage: 1d6+6
Specials:
Magic Fang or Divine Favor (Attack +11 or +9/+9, and 1d6+7)
Shocking Grasp, Inflict Light Wounds, or Burning Blade (Maneuver)


The Brute, big and tough
• Warrior
• STR 14 DEX 13 CON 15 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 8
Stamina Plus x3
Power Attack
HP at level 1: 47
Greatsword Attack Bonus: +10 (or +9 with Power Attack)
Greatsword Damage: 2d6+5 (or 2d6+7 with Power Attack)
Specials:
Enlarge Person (STR 16, DEX 11, Reach +5', Greatsword Damage: 2d8+6 or 2d8+8)
Stand Still


The Skillmaster, master of many tricks
• Expert
• STR 8 DEX 14 CON 13 INT 21 WIS 12 CHA 10
Train Ability (INT) x3
Extra Skills x2
HP at level 1: 24
Number of Skills at maximum ranks: 21
Specials:
Mage Hand
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Comprehend Languages
Jump
Spiderwalk (Invocation)


The Naked Dodger, avoids getting hit while naked
• Expert
• STR 10 DEX 21 CON 13 INT 14 WIS 12 CHA 8
Train Ability (DEX) x3
Dodge x2
HP at level 1: 24
AC: 17 (naked)
Specials:
Shield of Faith
Mage Armor
Shield
AC with all spells active: 27 (naked)


The Runner, runs
• Expert
• STR 12 DEX 14 CON 15 INT 13 WIS 10 CHA 8
Dash x3
Run
Stamina Plus
HP at level 1: 22
Specials:
Expeditious Retreat
Jump, or Sudden Leap (Maneuver)
Movement Speed: 60
Movement Speed with Specials: 90


The Glass Cannon, shoots but can't take the hits
• Mage
• STR 8 DEX 10 CON 12 INT 21 WIS 14 CHA 13
Train Ability (INT) x3
Extra Specials
HP at level 1: 18
Spells Known: 8
Mana: 22
Specials:
Magic Missile
Lesser Orb of Lightning
Lesser Orb of Cold
Eldritch Blast (Invocation)
Burning Hands
Color Spray
Grease
Entangle


The Tankmage, ironclad mage with a pet
• Mage
• STR 8 DEX 10 CON 15 INT 14 WIS 13 CHA 12
Armored Casting
Medium Armor Proficiency
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Stamina Plus
HP at level 1: 22
Spells known: 5
Mana: 21
Specials:
Magic Missile
Lesser Orb of Fire
Summon Monster 1 (celestial hound)
Cure Light Wounds
Shield

The Saint, a healer that resists like crazy by level 2
• Mage
• STR 8 DEX 10 CON 12 INT 13 WIS 14 CHA 21
Train Ability (CHA) x3
Train Saves x2
HP at level 1: 18
Spells Known: 4
Mana: 22
Specials:
Mount
Cure Light Wounds
Sanctuary
Mana:
Saves at level 1: Fortitude 3 Reflex 2 Will 4
Level 2:
Divine Grace (Paladin)
Saves at level 2: Fortitude 9 Reflex 8 Will 10


The Samurai, ki powered
• Warrior
• STR 15 DEX 10 CON 13 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 18
Train Ability (CHA) x2
Skill Focus: Iajutsu Focus +3
Stamina Plus
HP at level 1: 34
Specials:
Magic Weapon
Cause Fear, Command, or Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Maneuver)


The Cleric, typical but not as powerful
• Warrior
• STR 8 DEX 10 CON 13 INT 14 WIS 15 CHA 12
Extra Specials x2
Stamina Plus
Turn Undead (Cleric)
HP at level 1: 34
Spells Known: 7
Mana: 31
Mana recovery +5
Specials:
Detect Undead
Bless
Cure Light Wounds
Shield of Faith
Divine Favor
Magic Weapon
Protection from Evil


The Grappler, unarmed wrestler
• Warrior
• STR 17 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 8
Improved Grapple
Stamina Plus
Unarmed Strike (Monk)
Train Ability (STR)
HP at level 1: 34
Specials:
Daze
Expeditious Retreat


The Rogue, an old classic thief
• Expert
• STR 12 DEX 19 CON 14 INT 13 WIS 8 CHA 10
Train Ability (DEX) x2
Sneak Attack (Rogue)
Trapfinding (Rogue)
Weapon Finesse
HP at level 1: 26
Specials:
Silent Image
Ghost Sound


The Bard, musical master
• Expert
• STR 8 DEX 12 CON 11 INT 14 WIS 13 CHA 15
Extra Specials x2
Bardic Music (Bard)
Bardic Knowledge (Bard)
Animal Companion (Druid) or Summon Familiar (Wizard)
HP at level 1: 21
Mana: 21
Specials:
Sleep
Summon Instrument
Cure Light Wounds
Hideous Laughter
Summon Nature's Ally 1 or Summon Monster 1


The Noble, gosh darn nobles
• Balanced
• STR 8 DEX 11 CON 12 INT 15 WIS 13 CHA 14
Bardic Knowledge (Bard)
Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm
Extra Skills x2
HP at level 1: 23
Number of Skills at maximum ranks: 12
Specials:
Unseen Servant
Disguise Self
Mount
Identify


The Ranger, Aragorn style
• Warrior
• STR 14 DEX 15 CON 13 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 8
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Two Weapon Fighting
Animal Companion (Druid)
HP at level 1: 29
Specials:
Entangle
Summon Nature's Ally 1


The Monk, classic Shaolin
• Balanced
• STR 14 DEX 13 CON 15 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 8
Unarmed Strike (Monk)
Flurry of Blows (Monk)
Dash
Melee Focus
HP at level 1: 27
Specials:
Cure Light Wounds
Inflict Light Wounds
Shield of Faith


The Magus/Spellsword, hybrid "gish"
• Warrior
• STR 14 DEX 12 CON 13 INT 15 WIS 10 CHA 8
Spellstrike (Pathfinder Magus)
Spell Combat (Pathfinder Magus)
Eldritch Blast (Invocation)
Stamina Plus
HP at level 1: 34
Specials:
Hideous Blow (Invocation)
Chill Touch
Color Spray
Shocking Grasp
Shield


The Barbarian, ball of rage
• Warrior
• STR 17 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 8
Rage (Barbarian)
Dash
Stamina Plus
Train Ability (STR)
HP at level 1: 36
Specials:
Enlarge Person
Jump


The Paladin, mounted holy knight
• Warrior
• STR 14 DEX 10 CON 15 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 13
Detect Evil (Paladin)
Smite Evil (Paladin)
Stamina Plus
Train Ability (DEX)
HP at level 1: 37
Specials:
Cure Light Wounds
Mount




NPC

The Thug, an NPC character
• No Template
• STR 15 DEX 15 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 9 CHA 8
Train Ability (STR)
Train Ability (DEX) x2
Dash
HP at level 1: 13
Specials:
Magic Weapon


The Farmer, an NPC character
• No Template
• STR 12 DEX 9 CON 13 INT 10 WIS 11 CHA 8
Skill Focus: Craft
Skill Focus: Profession
Skill Focus: Survival
Skill Focus: Handle Animal
HP at level 1: 14
Specials:
Speak With Animals


The Bodyguard, an NPC character
• No Template
• STR 17 DEX 12 CON 13 INT 10 WIS 9 CHA 8
Train Ability (STR)
Martial Weapons Training
Melee Focus
Stamina Plus
HP at level 1: 18
Bastard Sword Attack: +6
Bastard Sword Damage: 1d10+3
AC with Heavy Shield and Chainmail: 18
Specials:
Cure Light Wounds
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 01:50:59 PM by SiggyDevil » Logged

RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 7139



« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 07:33:38 AM »

Wow!  I haven't seen you here in a while, Siggy.

This is interesting.  How are classes handled?  I didn't see anything mentioned other than the three templates, but your pre-rolled characters have abilities from other classes (like the paladin).

Capping everything at level 6 certainly simplifies things.

If there are only six levels, is it really worth changing how Con affects HP?  There's not that much cumulative effect with only six hit dice.  Does this new Con-score-to-HP rule affect all creatures?  That means things like orcs and goblins are going to have roughly triple their HP as in the Monster Manual.
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My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
SiggyDevil
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1111


Magmar, the ultimate butthead

igtsigma
WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 01:20:00 PM »

Hey yeah I'm back

The concept of "classes" are essentially the three templates. All abilities normally gained from classes are added as feats, open-ended.
PrC abilities can be gained in the same way but the PrC requirements must be met first.

The E6 was just thrown in there as a house rule. I meant that as a solid cap this time though, since retraining is essential, no extra feat per 5000 XP.

I want CON score added to HP to give level 1 PCs a boost.
Monster entries would be unchanged unless used as a "boss character" or "solo encounter".
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SiggyDevil
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1111


Magmar, the ultimate butthead

igtsigma
WWW
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 01:24:46 PM »

Could I get a Tier ranking for the base class?

And do the templates make a big difference in character advancement? I suspect the extra Mage spells might throw things out of balance..
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RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 7139



« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 01:35:27 PM »

So, how do you get abilities like Divine Grace?  Train Special?
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
bkdubs123
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 2724


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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 02:01:11 PM »

Old class abilities are now feats, learned at levels as appropriate to the original class.
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PhaedrusXY
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Posts: 8022


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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 02:12:17 PM »

Quote
When casting a spell, subtract the spell's level from Spell Points.
You are hugely undervaluing high level spells (or conversely, hugely over valuing low level spells). I realize that you're looking to go with something simple here, but I think you've taken it too far. Look at how the power point costs for psionic powers scales, and still one of the complaints often leveled against that system is that a psion can spend all of his power points to "cast" a bunch of 9th level "spells", whereas neither wizards nor sorcerers can do that. At a minimum, spell points should scale similarly to that.

Ideally, I think they should scale on some kind of exponential curve. Maybe have the cost be 2^X, where X is spell level. That way, a 1st level spell would cost 2 spell points, while a 9th level one would cost 512. Then maybe make the number of spell points they have equal to their Wisdom modifier times the cost of the highest level spell they can cast, or something like that.

Edit: Now you've got me thinking about how to do this crazy thing. I think in order to gain a level of spellcasting, it should cost a number of feats equal to the level of spells you'll be gaining plus 1. So gaining the ability to cast cantrips would be 1 feat, 1st level spells would be 2 more feats, etc, up till 9th level spells which would yes cost 10 feats (to upgrade from 8th to 9th). This does mean that you wouldn't be able to get 9th level spells till level 20, which seems about right to me (it would take all of your feats from 16th to 20th).

I think this should be in addition to the modified spell point system that I suggested above (where a 9th level spell costs 512 times as much as a 1st level spell). I guarantee you people will still play full spellcasters, despite how many resources it costs and what they have to give up to achieve it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 02:38:17 PM by PhaedrusXY » Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 7139



« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 02:36:12 PM »

Old class abilities are now feats, learned at levels as appropriate to the original class.
Thanks.  It was right in the opening paragraph.  I was looking under various headings and completely missed that!
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
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I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
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Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 06:45:27 PM »

Old class abilities are now feats, learned at levels as appropriate to the original class.

Yep thanks for pointing that, I tried to make it obvious

PhaedrusXY: Undervaluing spells is the idea but I figured with the MAD going on between INT, WIS, and CHA, many spellcasters would have average WIS at best.
Casting even level 5 spells would be a moderate drain at -5 out of 14-15 WIS at best (with Elite Array). That's 2-3 spells a day if using nothing but the best. It encourages use of lower level spells more often.
IMO it's discouraging enough, but if you think it should be exponential... then go for it.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 06:49:26 PM by SiggyDevil » Logged

PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 07:06:58 PM »

So there are no ways to boost your ability scores? Magic items, racial bonuses, etc?
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 07:14:40 PM »

So there are no ways to boost your ability scores? Magic items, racial bonuses, etc?

Items and races stay the same as in 3.5e.
But read again, I provided some feats to cover the lackage in D&D. It's in the section after the class templates.
Or just CTRL+F for the "Train Ability" feat. It can be taken up to 3 times per stat.
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Bozwevial
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 07:19:01 PM »

So there are no ways to boost your ability scores? Magic items, racial bonuses, etc?

Items and races stay the same as in 3.5e.
But read again, I provided some feats to cover the lackage in D&D. It's in the section after the class templates.
Or just CTRL+F for the "Train Ability" feat. It can be taken up to 3 times per stat.
I think he's trying to make the point that relying on MAD to keep spellcasters in check won't work once they start crafting stat-enhancing items.
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 07:20:58 PM »

I think he's trying to make the point that relying on MAD to keep spellcasters in check won't work once they start crafting stat-enhancing items.

Ah that makes sense.
I figure that's the fault of items alone. A DM can adjust prices and availability as desired, as any DM should.
I'm just trying to cover the basics of "My class sucks" issues and bring the top and bottom Tiers together.
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 08:00:54 PM »

Changes:

HP
Added NPC samples
Fixed a few math errors
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 12:30:48 PM »

Added the Cleric and Grappler

Changed the Boxer: added Unarmed Strike

Any other classes to make?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 12:44:51 PM by SiggyDevil » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2010, 03:34:51 PM »

New class examples and minor changes (Mettle)
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2010, 01:36:03 AM »

Changed Eldritch Blast to a spell slot instead of feat (so that it doesn't need to be added again every other level)

Wondering if it's fair that Sneak Attack needs to be added every odd level. It does add to damage for each attack though, and fairly easy to use with Acrobatic Backstab.. or simple going first in the surprise round.
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Amechra
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Thread Necromancy a Specialty


« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2010, 10:00:02 PM »

Is anyone planning to playtest this? Because if so, I would be willing to play.
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Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing
SiggyDevil
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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2010, 11:05:08 PM »

Pssh I'd be lucky to get an in-person D&D 3e group together for any kind of campaign.
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Amechra
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Thread Necromancy a Specialty


« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2010, 12:14:18 PM »

I was actually working on something really similar to this; one of the differences was that you could pick CL instead of BAB at any level except 3 and 6, and your CL/BAB would alter the size of your hit-dice.

It was mostly a mental excersize.
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Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing
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