Cleric Build for your review

[BruceLeeroy]

Howdy. Got a new character coming in to a game on Sunday, wanted to run it by you magnificent people. I was going to play a Planar Shepherd, but there is already a Druid in the game and I didn't want to slow the game down any further (lots of a summons and BFC spells already in play.)

So, this build is strictly limited to the SRD, MiC, SpC and 3 sources of my choosing. I chose Dragon Magazine, Complete Divine and Complete Champion.

Here's the build: Cloistered Cleric 4/ Church Inquisitor 1/ Seeker of the Misty Isles 1/ Radiant Servant of Pelor 1/ Ordained Champion 3/ Contemplative 1/ Pr. Paladin 1/ Paragnostic Apostle 1

Level 13, with 1 free +1 LA. I chose Half-Minotaur (Dragon Mag) Human as the race. Stats are looking pretty good, rolled up Str 17, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 15. Ability points from levels went into Str, Wis and Int.

Feats are:
(Flaws)Extra Turning (x2)
Human - Quicken Spell
L1 DMM Quicken Spell
L3 Combat Expertise
L6 Dodge+Mobility(combined via House rule, ruled to work as a prereq for Pr. Paladin of Freedom instead of Mounted Combat)
L9 Initiate of Kord (Dragon Mag)
L12 Power Attack
(Ord. Champ) Imp. Disarm
(Ord. Champ) Imp. Trip.

Domains are not limited by deity in this campain, so I chose Sun(granted power traded for disarm), Magic(granted power traded for trip), Knowledge, Inquisition, Travel (Devotion), Law (Devotion) and War.

Plan is to wield a Guisarme and do a little battlefield control.  With the checks i can manage via Initiate of Kord (+4 to all combat maneuvers) and the spell Champion of Kord (+10 divine to combat maneuvers) + huge size, i can trip+disarm anything. Looks like a +36 trip, +44 disarm, before items.

Thoughts?

[Rebel7284]

Have you considered double-dipping turning pools by, say, starting with silverbrow human->rebuke dragons and then picking up turn undead from Sacred Exorcist?

[Sobolev]

I thought Cloistered Cleric was in Unearthed Arcana.  Other thoughts to be added later.

[carnivore]

I thought Cloistered Cleric was in Unearthed Arcana.  Other thoughts to be added later.

it is also in the SRD

 

[carnivore]

are you allowed to Ignore the Alignment an Racial and Diety requirements of the Different PrCs?

 

[jameswilliamogle]

This looks like a really solid Cleric to me already.   Maybe consider fitting in a Domain feat?

[BruceLeeroy]

Have you considered double-dipping turning pools by, say, starting with silverbrow human->rebuke dragons and then picking up turn undead from Sacred Exorcist?

I absolutely considered getting extra turning pools; however, rebuking dragons, unless it specifically says it would power Divine feats, wouldn't work. I considered using the Azurin Cleric racial subs along with a dip into Dread Necro, then the build as I have it for the most part, netting 4 turning pools. Unfortunately, due to the source limitations, it simply wasn't possible. The Initiate of Kord feat from Dragon mag is what gave me the idea for this character, so that immediately became a source, and Complete Champion/Complete Divine simply have too much wonderful cleric-y goodness to ignore. Right now I have 26 turn attempts a day, which should be enough. I'm debating replacing disarm with Easy Metamagic: Quicken.

are you allowed to Ignore the Alignment an Racial and Diety requirements of the Different PrCs?

 

Yes. Elves are dumb, why should they get exclusive classes that are so tasty otherwise? Alignments are also considered fluff in this campaign.

This looks like a really solid Cleric to me already.  Maybe consider fitting in a Domain feat?

Thanks. What do you mean by Domain feat? I already have two Devotion feats if that's what you mean, Law and Travel. I would have done Knowledge too, but too few skill points to go around... the DM has a habit of springing nasty ambushes, so an epic spot modifier is necessary.

[Rebel7284]

Rebuke dragons does indeed specify that it can be used for divine feats.  I consider it marginally more useful than the Azurin version. But yeah, it's harder to pull off with your book limitations than it would be otherwise.

[Epimetheus]

I think there might be a feat that lets you leave your domain slot unfilled; you can spontaneously cast any of your domain spells from that slot.

With this number of domains it's a good idea.

[The Knowledge Domain doesn't give you bonus skill points, but I'm guessing it was since you needed certain knowledge skills to be in-class?]

Spot? Ask the druid to cast Eyes of the Avoral often. (Touch: +8 racial bonus to spot for 10 min/lvl)

[BruceLeeroy]

I think there might be a feat that lets you leave your domain slot unfilled; you can spontaneously cast any of your domain spells from that slot.

With this number of domains it's a good idea.

[The Knowledge Domain doesn't give you bonus skill points, but I'm guessing it was since you needed certain knowledge skills to be in-class?]

Spot? Ask the druid to cast Eyes of the Avoral often. (Touch: +8 racial bonus to spot for 10 min/lvl)

Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering in order to qualify for Mind over Matter (Paragnostic Apostle). +2 to AC on any spell that grants an armor bonus. I'm taking that to mean Magic Vestment as well as Recitation(SpC), Sacred Haven(CD) and probably some more I haven't found yet.

Eyes of the Avoral: I already have a +2 racial from Minotaur, but that's still pretty nice. I'll see if he can acquire that.

Of note is that fact that, in this campaign, all spellcasters learn and cast spells as a Sorcerer of their caster level, so we are limited by Spells Known. This also means that my domain slots are already Spontaneous from any domain I have. Still only one slot per level per day, though, although I have the option of learning my domain spells as Spells Known. Any spells from the Cleric and Paladin lists that you guys think I just can't live without?

Also, I need some more good Dragon Magazine stuff for Clerics. Got any ideas?

[Epimetheus]

I think there might be a feat that lets you leave your domain slot unfilled; you can spontaneously cast any of your domain spells from that slot.

With this number of domains it's a good idea.

[The Knowledge Domain doesn't give you bonus skill points, but I'm guessing it was since you needed certain knowledge skills to be in-class?]

Spot? Ask the druid to cast Eyes of the Avoral often. (Touch: +8 racial bonus to spot for 10 min/lvl)

Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering in order to qualify for Mind over Matter (Paragnostic Apostle). +2 to AC on any spell that grants an armor bonus. I'm taking that to mean Magic Vestment as well as Recitation(SpC), Sacred Haven(CD) and probably some more I haven't found yet.

Eyes of the Avoral: I already have a +2 racial from Minotaur, but that's still pretty nice. I'll see if he can acquire that.

Of note is that fact that, in this campaign, all spellcasters learn and cast spells as a Sorcerer of their caster level, so we are limited by Spells Known. This also means that my domain slots are already Spontaneous from any domain I have. Still only one slot per level per day, though, although I have the option of learning my domain spells as Spells Known. Any spells from the Cleric and Paladin lists that you guys think I just can't live without?

Also, I need some more good Dragon Magazine stuff for Clerics. Got any ideas?

Unfortunately, 'Armor Bonus' is really referring to spells that grant an armor bonus to AC. That's actually a specific type of AC bonus, which is provided by spells like Mage Armor and Luminous Armor, so it wouldn't work with Magic Vestment (enhancement bonus to AC) nor with Recitation (luck bonus to AC).

But if that Mind over Matter ability is going to count for those spells, I'd suggest Luminous Armor [or Greater Luminous Armor]. (Pair it with a Lesser Restoration to remove the Strength damage.) You'd be nearly unhittable by melee attacks.

Spontaneous is good, I guess. And the hack of getting so many domains only helps...

Divine Insight (lvl 2, 5+CL Insight bonus to a single skill check, hr/lvl until discharged. From Complete Champion) helps a lot with skill checks. Alter Fortune 3rd lvl PHBII is pretty good (250 xp for an immediate action reroll for you or an ally), but only if you really worry about dying. Shivering Touch lvl 3 is broken. (3d6 Dex dmg as a touch attack from Frostburn. No Save but yes to SR. The spell description isn't very clear about the duration of the spell though. It says 1 round/lvl which just doesn't really make sense. So it might be disallowed.)

If there is no Wizard, then I suggest that you take Telepathic Bond, Lesser. This 3rd lvl spell is very nice if your group likes planning things out a lot. It'll also help the druid communicate with you (and thus the rest of the party) when he/she wildshapes. Dispel Magic lvl 3 is also good, as the Druid would have to take it at lvl 4 instead. Silence lvl 2 might be worthwhile if you need to be anti-caster or sneaky for a while.

(Silence is very good. Note that only Bards and Clerics get this spell, and it is quite anti-wizard/sorc. The only counters [aside from nonverbal or Silent spells] are Resounding Voice (bard and cleric), Joyful Noise (bard), and Amplify (bard), so that about shuts them down.)

No real suggestions for high level spells, as I haven't really gotten to use them. Antilife Shell looked interesting though. Heal is good too, of course. Note that Druids also get a lower lvl version of Heal, but it doesn't have as many side effects as the Cleric Heal. [but does heal 10 HP/CL though]

[BruceLeeroy]

Unfortunately, 'Armor Bonus' is really referring to spells that grant an armor bonus to AC. That's actually a specific type of AC bonus, which is provided by spells like Mage Armor and Luminous Armor, so it wouldn't work with Magic Vestment (enhancement bonus to AC) nor with Recitation (luck bonus to AC).

But if that Mind over Matter ability is going to count for those spells, I'd suggest Luminous Armor [or Greater Luminous Armor]. (Pair it with a Lesser Restoration to remove the Strength damage.) You'd be nearly unhittable by melee attacks.

Spontaneous is good, I guess. And the hack of getting so many domains only helps...

Divine Insight (lvl 2, 5+CL Insight bonus to a single skill check, hr/lvl until discharged. From Complete Champion) helps a lot with skill checks. Alter Fortune 3rd lvl PHBII is pretty good (250 xp for an immediate action reroll for you or an ally), but only if you really worry about dying. Shivering Touch lvl 3 is broken. (3d6 Dex dmg as a touch attack from Frostburn. No Save but yes to SR. The spell description isn't very clear about the duration of the spell though. It says 1 round/lvl which just doesn't really make sense. So it might be disallowed.)

If there is no Wizard, then I suggest that you take Telepathic Bond, Lesser. This 3rd lvl spell is very nice if your group likes planning things out a lot. It'll also help the druid communicate with you (and thus the rest of the party) when he/she wildshapes. Dispel Magic lvl 3 is also good, as the Druid would have to take it at lvl 4 instead. Silence lvl 2 might be worthwhile if you need to be anti-caster or sneaky for a while.

(Silence is very good. Note that only Bards and Clerics get this spell, and it is quite anti-wizard/sorc. The only counters [aside from nonverbal or Silent spells] are Resounding Voice (bard and cleric), Joyful Noise (bard), and Amplify (bard), so that about shuts them down.)

No real suggestions for high level spells, as I haven't really gotten to use them. Antilife Shell looked interesting though. Heal is good too, of course. Note that Druids also get a lower lvl version of Heal, but it doesn't have as many side effects as the Cleric Heal. [but does heal 10 HP/CL though]

When you cast
a spell that provides an armor bonus, that bonus to AC also
increases by 2.

I'd say there is room for interpretation. My case might be rather weak, but I'll argue it with my DM. What's this lower level Heal that druids get? SRD says it's 7th level for druids.

Divine Insight is great. Used it on my last character (Blue Mage/Incantantrix) to be the party skill monkey. Alter Fortune, Luminous Armor and Shivering Touch aren't in my sources, unfortunately. Telepathic bond is a great idea for the druid. The player isn't very ...cooperative in a teamwork sense, doesn't metagame tactics at all and once he's Wild Shaped, he's flying (Dragon Wild Shape, Deep Dragon).

Silence is pretty standard for my Clerics. I've only played a few and they were, for the most part, core only. This is the first time I've taken a Cleric build out for a stroll down Optimization Lane for a real game.

Thanks for the suggestions, keep 'em coming.

[Epimetheus]

Some interesting Druid spells that maybe shouldn't be lower level than the Cleric ones they almost replace.

Rejuvenation Cocoon from Spell Compendium
Druid 5
Std action to cast, but lasts 2 rounds; the willing creature is basically unable to move or see for 2 rounds.

They are shielded [cocoon has hardness 10 and 10 HP/lvl] during that period. They will heal 10 HP/lvl, and are cured of disease/poison.

Last Breath from Spell Compendium
Druid 4
Basically like Revivify (Cleric 5) except that it also attaches a Reincarnate, so the body the dead thing is sent to may not necessarily be the same type as the original creature. But since people seem to have LA in this game, this may not be that good.