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Author Topic: Lucifer the Satan, the former King of Hell  (Read 4369 times)
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Tshern
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2008, 05:07:36 PM »

Okay, sorry it took me so long to get to this in-depth. I'm lazy sometimes
I have a club just for this, join it.

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Shouldn't Lucifer have cultists listed as worshippers? Seems to me that they would be a large portion...
I am actually considering removing tyrants from the list of his worshippers as there are so few people that even know of his existence. Most people are certain Asmodeus destroyed him in the Battles of Light and Greed.

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Moving on... Very nice unique SDAs. I like the power and flavor. A good mix. Well done, Tshern. Clap
Cheers. Claim on the crown is a perfect example of an SDA that I would never allow anyone to have on their deity. The problem is that he has no way of challenging even Mephisto if he don't get those boosts to divine ranks and I really can't give him 21 divine ranks to make him a decent opponent against Asmodeus.

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Lucifer gets 6 domains, and, as per DF mythos, he has to take the ones for his alignment, so Evil and Law are down. 4 more...
Plus one from Ordained Champion (War) and I was supposed to edit Sun domain to be a part of Form of the Aleax. Thanks for the headsup.

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War - He started the Blood War, yes, but that's still only 1 war. Plus he hasn't finished it. He's not in it now. He's actually not dealing with war at all, except for a personal battle against Asmodeus, but that doesn't say "I'm a deity of War" to me.
The largest war in the Cosmos. And he's got more: Battles of Light and Greed with Asmodeus, his conquest of Hell and god (no pun intended) knows how many wars has he waged against the Realms Above.

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Knowledge - Omnicompetent almost insists that this is a domain choice.
And his portfolio. He is one of the oldest gods too and he has access to the memories and knowledge of the Overlord. I think that alone would justify this domain choice.

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Magic - Doesn't fit, really. He's not an arcane deity. He's all divine.
And not too magic oriented, he beats stuff up.
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Trickery - As you pointed out, in DF Lucifer never convinced others he didn't exist. If there was a domain named Deception, it'd fit better, flavor-wise.
The reason why so many Dicefreaks entities have Trickery domain is that when the Gates of Hell was published no other suitable domains existed. This is why Asmodeus has it...

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Domination - While he was a tyrant, your flavor doesn't really cover this issue, so we can drop it.
And having this and Tyranny would be damn superfluous.

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Envy - I don't know if this is as big as I initially thought. If he was greedy or envious of others, I think he would have had all the 9 layers, right? Or tried to... so this one goes.
I consider Lucy to be made of wrath rather than envy. This would suit Mammon way better than Lucifer.

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Renewal - He's more about Tyranny and torture than renewal, even if he is constantly renewing himself (which is what tempted me at first)
And his habit of renewing himself started after he was dethroned.

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Retribution - Nope. He's not really a giver, you know?
Agreed.

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Tyranny - Also a really good choice. He's all about Tyranny.  The flavor abounds
Tyranny is the most important dogma in the Perdition and the King of the Ninefold Realm should be its perfect manifestation. Yeah, I think this suits him well.

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Wrath - The flavor just doesn't show him as wrathful. He wants revenge on Asmodeus, but wrathful is more a vengeance for some indignation.
This was the best one I could find for him to cover this aspect. Not only is he after Asmodeus, but Nine Hells is all about hate, despise and spite towards anyone who doesn't devote their entire lives to the values of the Perdition and against those who do, well, let me say they are not that much better off.

Hatred - A good choice. he seems to hate a lot. I half get the feeling that he thinks he hates the Overlord, which is interesting and spices things up.[/quote]
That was what I tried to tell with the flavour (which was very hastily written, I am working on it). Part of the Hellish dogma I suppose, everyone who is above you is only there for you to surpass. Would you truely rank this above Wrath? I consider Hatred to be more suitable for Asmodeus, who is more calm and well-behaved than Lucifer who again is the more compassionate and aggressive one. If I would rework Asmodeus I'd give him Hatred while Lucy'd still get Wrath.

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Glory - Not as strong a choice as some others.
I don't really see the point in this either. Too damn many good domains out there already.

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Time - He may be really old, but the flavor made it seem like Leviathan is older. He's not about Time manipulation, control, or anything else. He may be a survivor of Time, but not really a god of Time.
Leviathan is older than Lucifer. All the eight original Lords are. I picked this rather than Planning because of the spells, going through Planning domain made me feel like it was based on espionage rather than planning. Lucifer has better means of getting information (portfolion sense and remote viewing namely) than Greater scrying and the like. Then again Time domain had things that clearly emphasize longevity of his plans (Contingency, Permanency) and skills of preparing ahead of Time (Haste and Foresight). Moreover, I needed him to have Foresight.

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Fate - He doesn't seem content with Fate, actually he seems very "anti-Fate" as he's trying to retake Hell.
Good point.

[/quote]Planning - He's been planning this coup since time immemorable, right? Sounds like a planner to me.[/quote]
Read my take on Time domain.

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Pride - After all, he thinks he deserves it all, right?
Don't they all? A good choice and this would probably be the next one I'd add.

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Temptation - Illuminating influence made me think of this, but then it's more Deception, which is a non-existant domain. Sad
Agreed again.

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Fury - You mentioned his anger as a vital aspect of him. Fury seems like a fitting domain for him.
Wrath?

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Spite Doesn't seem a great bit of flavor, actually. I was just comparing it, flavor-wise, to Hatred and the like.
There is a Spite domain?

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Vile Darkness - Vile Damage made me think of it, but it's so anti-light that it doesn't fit.
Tried to cover this with Lightbringer.


Your suggestions are very good. I'll take this to some of the DF people and discuss them with the crew and see how they feel about them. I'll inform you off the progress.
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2008, 07:52:45 PM »

Cool. I look forward to hear of what they say. Big Grin

As for the spite domain, it is in Heroes of Horror.

I see why you chose Time over Planning. Foresight is fucking awesome. I was just going off flavor, but for functionality Time wins with its spell list, yes.

I chose Fury over Wrath because Wrath (the word) is very much "vengeful" and "retibutory" while Fury is unbridled rage and anger. I felt Fury fits him (since he is a deity before his fall). While Wrath would fit him now, since he does want revenge on Asmodeus, Fury just seems to be what he's all about.
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Tshern
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2008, 08:07:19 PM »

I tried to compare the fluff off the domains, but the mechanical aspects simple didn't click and Time still is very suitable for him. In my opinion Foresight alone tells much more about planning than the entire spell list of Planning domain.

An excellent comparison with Fury and Wrath. Where is Fury domain located?
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Ja vuosia myöhemmin
kalvas kaksikko lattialla motellin tihrustelee,
kun sama keiju katossa leijailee.
Kyselevät: "Mikä päivä nyt on?
Tiedätkö sen?"
Kuiskaten laulaa keiju:
"Tämän elämän viimeinen."

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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2008, 08:08:22 PM »

Fiendish Codex I Big Grin
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Need to play table top? Get your game on at:
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The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
The 13th Guard - An alternate history campaign idea.
Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie
Tshern
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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2008, 08:08:49 PM »

Damn you Abyss!
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Ja vuosia myöhemmin
kalvas kaksikko lattialla motellin tihrustelee,
kun sama keiju katossa leijailee.
Kyselevät: "Mikä päivä nyt on?
Tiedätkö sen?"
Kuiskaten laulaa keiju:
"Tämän elämän viimeinen."

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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2008, 08:13:58 PM »

That's what I thought when I saw it, but it fits so well
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The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
The 13th Guard - An alternate history campaign idea.
Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie
Tshern
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2008, 08:21:10 PM »

That's what I thought when I saw it, but it fits so well
Or are you one of those people who think Abyss is cooler than Perdition?
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Ja vuosia myöhemmin
kalvas kaksikko lattialla motellin tihrustelee,
kun sama keiju katossa leijailee.
Kyselevät: "Mikä päivä nyt on?
Tiedätkö sen?"
Kuiskaten laulaa keiju:
"Tämän elämän viimeinen."

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AfterCrescent
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AfterCrescent
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2008, 08:23:19 PM »

Nope. The only cool thing I liked about the Abyss is that one of its layers (92) is actually an entity created before the great wheel. (Besides the humor I find in Pazuzu's assistance in Pun-pun's creation)
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The cake is a lie.
Need to play table top? Get your game on at:
Brilliant Gameologists' PbP Forum. Do it, you know you want to.
The 3.5 Cleric Handbook
The 13th Guard - An alternate history campaign idea.
Clerics just wake up one morning and decide they need to kick ass, and it needs to be kicked NOW. ~veekie
Tshern
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2008, 08:25:47 PM »

Nope. The only cool thing I liked about the Abyss is that one of its layers (92) is actually an entity created before the great wheel. (Besides the humor I find in Pazuzu's assistance in Pun-pun's creation)
I eagerly wait for Dicefreaks' take on Abyss. Horrors of the Abyss ought to be published in few months and I've read every single excerpt and tried to raise my voice in all issues regarding it and so far it looks good. Not so much with Light from on High that utterly buttraped Lucifer AFTER I had written my version of him.
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Ja vuosia myöhemmin
kalvas kaksikko lattialla motellin tihrustelee,
kun sama keiju katossa leijailee.
Kyselevät: "Mikä päivä nyt on?
Tiedätkö sen?"
Kuiskaten laulaa keiju:
"Tämän elämän viimeinen."

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