A discussion on magic items

[Sinfire Titan]

TREASURE IS OPTIONAL, EQUIPMENT IS NOT

It seriously bugs me when people post a Low Magic game, and by Low Magic they mean "No Items, Fox only, Final Destination". It's fine and dandy when you want a grity game with no glowing awesomeness, but in DnD it's just plain old suicide for the PCs unless they seriously know how to optimize around it. And heaven help the poor saps who play this type of game with a DM who optimizes his encounters.


The First Illusion: WBL as a Reward

This is, quite frankly, the easiest trap to fall into. Here's a quick fact for you: The Developers actually took WBL into account when designing the Challenge Rating system.

This is in direct contrast to TSR's method of doing things. Back in the day, character creation assumed you wouldn't be getting magic items at all. The Moduls then threw this out the window by front-loading your ass, to the point where some people could do battle by throwing their excess magic items as improvised weapons.

The major problem is people see the Random Treasure charts giving out magic items, and that the WBL gives out GP. In reality, the WBL is a secondary Point Buy system designed to give characters the numbers they need at the levels they need them.

The Second Illusion: Equipment as Treasure

Let's start this off by clarifying the differences between Equipment and Treasure:

+1 Longsword
Wand of Open Lock (10 charges)
Scroll of Magic Missile (CL 5)
+1 Mithral Breastplate


Hidden amongst those four items is a piece of Treasure and three pieces of Equipment. I made this fairly easy to see, but some people are still going to think the Scroll is a piece of Equipment. Oh, and it's a trick question: The wand isn't vital, but very much welcomed in the Equipment category.


Equipment, by the Min-Max definition, is any item required for you to survive an encounter or any item required for your build to be viable. The +1 Longsword and Mithral armor up there? That's required for a character to survive an encounter (likely a level 5-7 build). The wand? Probably a 2nd level Wizard who is in a party with no Rogue BFS armed with an Adamantine Dagger.

The Scroll? Completely irrelevant. You could remove that from the list and it would have no impact on the encounters the PCs have to face. In fact, the scroll makes so little a difference that the PCs would never care (well, they'd bitch a little, but that's to be expected). This is the definition of Treasure: Any item on your character sheet that has no major impact on your survivability.


The Problem

Everyone, turn to the Magic Item section of your DMG. See something? The first thing that shows up are magic weapons and magic armor. These are classified almost universally under equipment.

Now turn to the Wondrous Items section and find the Belt of Giant's Strength. Take a look at the next item. What does a Folding Boat have in common with a Belt of Giant's Strength? They're both items that can be obtained through Random Treasure.

What's the difference between those two items? One is a boat, the other is a piece of equipment that is vital to some builds at some levels.

They lumped the Treasure and Equipment together, and called them both the same thing. What's worse, they gave Treasure the same value as Equipment.


The Result

On average, a well-built Fighter will spend nearly 4/5ths of his WBL on weapons, armor, stat boosters, and a couple of feat-granting items or backup weapons. The remaining 1/5 will likely be spent on wands, be they healing or utility.

On average, a Wizard will spend 2/5ths of his WBL on stat boosters, armor, and a couple of spells he may really need. The rest is going towards minor utility items for his belt, because he's the Goddamn Batman.

On average, neither the Fighter nor the Wizard will purchase a Folding Boat unless specifically told by the DM to do so. Hell, in the Wizard's case, he doesn't even have to (any circumstance that would require the boat would allow the Wizard to cast a spell to create a replacement).

Does this stop DMs from lumping the Boat in with the Belt?



Fixing the Problem

Treating the WBl as a PB system is the only way to make sure it works as intended. However, this does not aleviate the problem of Equipment and Treasure being grouped together (nor does it resolve the whole economic problem).

To put this simply, every time you give the PCs a sack full of platinum coins, those coins can be used on Treasure, or spent as more PB value. In other words, Treasure and Equipment need to be on different denominations/economies. Allowing GP to buy Equipment goes against the WBL's PB nature, and allowing the WBL to buy Treasure means the less experienced will sometimes waste their PB on stuff that isn't going to help them.


Please help come up with a solution to this.

[Rymosrac]

If I summarize the problem as "The game assumes that you have spent appropriate WBL on equipment, but in a practice, a great deal of your WBL likely ends up being made of treasure which does not contribute to your effectiveness in combat", then the obvious solution from where I'm sitting would be to:

A. Make desired equipment reasonably easy to locate (Magic Marts are an extreme example, but the right idea), and reasonably easy for the party to sell treasure.
B. When you hand out "treasure" items, as opposed to "equipment" items, don't think of them as giving the PC an item of worth equal to the list cost of the treasure item - think of it as giving the player items of worth equal to what they could sell the treasure items for, and then purchase equipment items with said treasure.

Thus, a party opening a chest could find 1000 GP, ~1000gp worth of equipment, or ~2000gp worth of treasure, assuming they can sell for ~50% of list price.

But maybe I'm oversimplifying and ignoring the root issue.

[veekie]

Well, the majority of the equipment are stat buffers, so you could give that away for free, inherent in every character. Then you could hurl treasure more or less safely.

[Nunkuruji]

I mostly run modules, and only do a few custom encounters of my own content. Right now I have pretty much an anything goes policy as far as purchase/creation, falling within the rules of the MIC, however, there have only been few opportunities to buy. So a lot of work on the PCs part to adequately prepare, and then scavenge along the way. Neither I or my PCs play up to Tier1 shenanigans.

My campaigns also always have time as a limited resource in one way or another.


The next campaign I run will have more frequent downtime and I will probably run as

-Custom items only through self-craft (no mic custom through magic mart)
-Item availability that day based on inverse of caster level, or a similar function of added time in ordering/upgrading the item on top of standard craft time
-Where cash/gems would normally be looted in the module, roll primarily MIC random table on items

"Equipment" will be obtained fairly regularly from slain NPCs
"Treasure" comes off the converted cash -> random roll


I'm very much about trade-offs, and my goal is
1. Make crafting investment special, as having multi-function items ups the power curve, but the trade-off is the feat investment
2. Give the PCs random boosts throughout an adventure delve, through "treasure". More fun at the table with random "oh that's cool" and "lolwut?"
3. Maintain the current status quo of "equipment" gathered largely from defeated NPCs
4. Cut down a bit on gp/optimize & splatbook search at magic mart, as selling treasure becomes inefficient vs. obtaining flat gp and going shopping.
5. Time is a resource just as much as xp & gp


For the Folding Boat example. I'll assume the boat "treasure" is given out as a useful/key item to help the PCs advance through a swamp or some such. If the PCs are already at WBL on their "equipment", I see the problem as the boat becomes perhaps too big of a cash boost if they up and sell it when they think they're done with it, and then purchase "equipment" that overly boosts their combat effectiveness, removing challenge from the game. On the other hand, if you go back to the case in my original campaign described, maybe you do want them to cash in, because they have a long road ahead, and need the WBL to carry them through many levels of no-purchase, and low "equipment" enemies. It's a DM judgement call imo - sometimes the solution is just, "no one wants to buy the boat right now".

I do also take care to make sure that equipment is there in one way or another for non-core classes, as modules may not often reward proper equipment for psionics, incarnum, etc. Even in the core case, maybe you make that "wizard" a "sorcerer" when he's slain and his mental booster is looted.

Part of my solution ends up being that one of my PCs and I checkpoint on WBL every so often to see where the party is at as a group and individually. If they get too rich, some of the equipment & treasure just "doesn't succeed its saving throw" . Last session I had a paladin licking a broken potion off the floor 

[Benly]

To me, the basic question is how much of "equipment" is something other than "make your basic numbers bigger"?

For example, you note that most of the Weapons & Armor stuff is equipment and not treasure, but I disagree to an extent: having a magic weapon of power level (x) is presumed for character effectiveness in encounters at CR and is hence equipment, but most special abilities on weapons are treasure: nice to have but not necessary with a few possible exceptions (ghost touch comes to mind).

The reason for this question is that it's fairly easy to replace the equipment that makes your basic numbers bigger with actually just making the PCs' basic numbers bigger (treat all weapons wielded as +x, give additional stat boosts to the normal amount you'd have at your level) so that item slots can be reserved for treasure. The main sand in this particular set of gears is the question of what equipment-category items do something other than make your numbers bigger - that is, what capabilities that are presumed to come from items are required to operate properly vs. challenges of your CR? Flight is one of the big stinkers sitting around but I'm sure there are others that will come to mind with consideration.

[PhaedrusXY]

Well, the majority of the equipment are stat buffers, so you could give that away for free, inherent in every character. Then you could hurl treasure more or less safely.

I'm trying that in a game that I'm just starting (as DM). The PCs will get:
    *  All characters have an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, enhancement bonus to armour or shield AC bonuses (if any), resistance bonus to saves and enhancement bonus to all ability scores equal to their character level divided by 3, rounding down.
    * All characters have a deflection bonus to AC equal to their character level divided by 4, rounding down.
    * All characters have a competence bonus to all skills equal to their character level.

This was originally a suggestion by MrSinister, and is similar to the scaling item bonuses on magic items in Frank and K's Tome series. I'm just doing away with the items. The game will be limited magic items, however, and I'm using a system where constant effect magic items have to be "attuned", and you can only use 3 of them at once. So the game should be quite a bit less item dependent than typical for 3.X D&D. I'm interested in seeing how it works out.

[Unbeliever]

I do not have a lot of time, but my groups tend to be a bit informal about these sorts of things and it does work out pretty well.  We occasionally check in on a WBL calculus to see if we're radically out of sync, which happens sometimes, and then make it up over a few sessions.  Likewise, and I think this is a big one, we do a fair bit of random rolling or giving out of cool, if not super awesome, magic items.  But, there's an implicit assumption that you won't sell them.  For example, we just got a Glove of Storing in one game.  It's a useful item, but heavily overpriced, but we'll use it rather than sell it. 

@Phaedrus
I can totally get behind those optional rules, especially if the goal is to make things less item dependent.  The only thing I'd flag is that I like that I can choose to devote more (or less) resources to some things if I choose to under the current system:  e.g., I can throw more gold at my armor or my rings of force shield or what have you if I want to shore up my defense, or choose not to.  You might lose a bit of that, although maybe that's worth it for the less item-dependent game, or maybe you will just displace it to something else.  Maybe they're spending their money on Transmuting weapons rather than +x ones or something like that.

In at least one game we're playing, we have made an explicit distinction between items that exist "in the narrative" and those that are just game concepts.  And, this goes both ways.  My character wears a coat made from the scales of a frost wyrm, which he really doesn't at all (it's all a natural armor bonus), but if someone stole the coat I'd take a hit to my AC, probably -4 would be my proposal.  It's worked fine for us so far, about 6 sessions in, but we all know each other real well and so don't have to work too hard to articulate a precise set of rules about it -- no one is trying to take advantage of it.

[McPoyo]

Well, the majority of the equipment are stat buffers, so you could give that away for free, inherent in every character. Then you could hurl treasure more or less safely.

I'm trying that in a game that I'm just starting (as DM). The PCs will get:
    *  All characters have an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, enhancement bonus to armour or shield AC bonuses (if any), resistance bonus to saves and enhancement bonus to all ability scores equal to their character level divided by 3, rounding down.
    * All characters have a deflection bonus to AC equal to their character level divided by 4, rounding down.
    * All characters have a competence bonus to all skills equal to their character level.

This was originally a suggestion by MrSinister, and is similar to the scaling item bonuses on magic items in Frank and K's Tome series. I'm just doing away with the items. The game will be limited magic items, however, and I'm using a system where constant effect magic items have to be "attuned", and you can only use 3 of them at once. So the game should be quite a bit less item dependent than typical for 3.X D&D. I'm interested in seeing how it works out.

Sounds a little like how Midnight deals with magic items...

[Widow]

I have been tempted to run a game where all the players get 60-70% of the WBL for equipment and 5% for expendiables.  Everytime you level, you just pick out X gp worth of equipment, it could be boosts to your current gear or you could just pick out totally different gear all together.  That way I would not have to award treasure per encounter or worry about the players getting the villian's gear.  The percentages might have to be shifted around, but I think the full value is too much.  The book assumes that this is your total wealth, which might include suboptimal items that you found and keep, but are not necessarily optimal.  Item creation feats would have to be handled a little differently, maybe each granting an extra 5% to your amount, or only allowing custom items if you are able to make them yourself.  Not sure how it would work, but it would allow the characters to get a hold of anything that is necessary for their build or swap out "bad" gear after trying it out for a level without penalty.

I have played way too many games where the DM goes overboard on loot and later complains everyone is too powerful.

[Zionpopsickle]

While I agree with the basic premise of the OP, I think that it is a very large mistake to simply divide it into the binary categories of Equipment and Treasure.  This vastly oversimplifies the problem and makes it look like a simple mechanical solution should be easily found, when the problem is more complex and the solutions more nuanced. 

Primarily, the distinction is not between the broad categories of Equipment and Treasure but that there is a whole spectrum of item needs that spans through both.  To start with, we have what I will classify as Mandatory items.  These are generally and rather succinctly summarized in the appendix of the MIC as the abilities that can be added to almost any general piece of equipment, such as +stats, +saves,+ various types of AC, etc. and the enhancement bonuses to Arms and Armour.  These item bonuses are absolutely necessary for almost any character to be able to function in a CR appropriate encounter.  While some classes like the druid can use class features to replicate most of these and wizards generally don't care too much (and really its hard to care about a few more AC when you make Space-Time your bitch at level 7) the vast majority of classes need these.  The reason I call these mandatory as opposed to the next category is that without them most characters (martial characters in particular) do not simply become non-functional but actually become dysfunctional; eating up inappropriate amounts of party resources just to simply survive.  A fighter (archetype not class) simply needs a +x strength item, +x weapon and +x armor to actually contribute.

After this Mandatory category we have the Necessary category.  Perhaps the simplest example is that at some level martial characters need to gain the ability to fly in order to continue to engage appropriate enemies.  These are only distinct from the first category because while a character requires these to continue to be useful, the character does not become completely useless without them.  In situations where characters do not have Necessary items they will find a number of their character features non-functional but may be able to contribute in other ways, whereas without Mandatory items a character is probably better off not even being present.  It should be noted that as the game progresses certain Necessary items will become Mandatory.

Below these we have Utility items.  These are items that while not required to compete in the game still give an advantage to those who possess them.  The Batman utility belt is a great example of a variety of these utility items.  The general test for these items is probably something along the lines of, "I don't need this to do what I need to do but it makes me better at things I would like to do."

Moving down, next we have Tools.  Tools are situationally useful items that while may be required to fulfill a specific task or to complete some sidequest do not impair your ability to perform any function you would normally desire to accomplish.  To use your example of the Folding Boat, you defined this as a Treasure, but I would say that it is a Tool.  A Folding Boat is quite useful if you need to travel of certain types of bodies of water but a caster can probably magic up a solution easily.  The test for a tool would probably be any item that if you could receive it for free but could not sell or otherwise co-opt you would take because at some point it will probably actually prove useful.

Moving down further we have Consumables.  This will be brief because the nature of these items have been discussed in great depth elsewhere and their worth is a subject of some contention.  For the most part, some Consumables can be extremely useful but the inherently limited nature of their usage makes them generally bad.

Continuing, we have Trinkets.  Trinkets have abilities that are interesting, cool or unique but are hard-pressed to ever make useful.  A Trinket is an item that while it can probably do something, sometime would fail the Tool test.  Trinkets are items that while fun and add flavor to a character never affect a characters power and are only the solutions to problems through manipulation of said problem.

Finally, we have Junk.  Its name is self explanatory so lets move along.

Now, I am sure people can and will quibble about how I categorized things.  I am actually OK with that.  I do not propose that my classifications are wholly complete or correct just that more classifications exist than simply a divide between Equipment and Treasure and that there is a fluidity within this system that means that for some levels and some classes items that are Equipment for one will be Treasure for others and that as levels and classes change these E/T classifications will change as well.  This fluidity is what makes it so hard to find mechanical solutions to most WBL problems because a character who has all the equipment he could ever desire at level 5 may be forced to make extremely tough decisions at level 10 to have the items he needs within straight WBL.  While a poor substitute some level of metagame fiat is required to make any WBL system work well.  A character must have some way of acquiring all Mandatory and Necessary items for his level be it through rewards, magic marts, loot, etc. 

Instead of a hard WBL system, I think that it should be divided into three separate parts.  #1 would be all those items that the character needs (Mandatory and Necessary items) and that these should simply be considered part of the characters development and therefore basically free.  While these items should be worked into the story of the game in the form of quest rewards, items looted from set enemies, etc. they should not require outside investment from the character because without them they aren't an actual character.  #2 is rewards.  These should be a mixture of Utility items, useful Tools and Consumables.  These are your Rods of Rope, Wands of Knock, Scrolls of Stone Shape, etc.  Items that will not make or break a quest but may represent a simple solution to a challenge or encounter.  As the name implies these should be rewards for the players doing well; for outsmarting a thief they should be able to take his Rod of Ropes.  But these rewards come with the caveat that being better prepared and equipped means that people are going to ask and expect them to undertake more challenging quests or be more suspicious of why such a well-equipped party is accepting such an easy task.  And finally #3 is discretionary funds.  This is the number that should be attempted to find a good mechanical formulation for.  Discretionary funds is the random gold, treasure and vendor-fodder that characters will attempt to convert into other items.  This is the place from which your character will buy all the snazzy items that make them kick-ass and take names or in the case of wizards jangle around their waist as they glower at their butler. 

Again, while the above system can probably be vastly improved I feel that it makes attempts to get at the heart of the issue at hand.  Mainly, characters require certain equipment in order to function and that these requirements change drastically from level to level and class to class.  No particular level or class should be penalized for having lesser or greater minimal equipment requirements (I'm looking at you Wizards, Druids and Monks).  Simultaneous with this comes the practical concern that much of the fun of D&D comes not from having the optimal equipment but of having what is necessary and then figuring out novel uses for pieces of equipment that have been obtained.  Finally though, is that while there are certain minimums required and playing around with goofy items is fun, the ability to slowly improve and optimize your character is also a necessary portion of the game.  This is why I propose the three part system.  It allows a character to stay as competitive as their tier allows without requiring investment of a finite and equalized resource, allows for characters to acquire items that can solve specific challenges without necessitating prediction or undue preparatory investment and still allows for characters to have a set of funds from which to personalize and optimize their character.

Now, while I do not believe that any of the above is perfect I hope that it has served to show that the problems of Equipment and WBL are actually exceedingly complex.  From my readings on various older threads and board archives I think much of the problems that have been had with working out these systems is that people are far too hung up on looking for simple solutions.  I don't think that there is a simple solution without overhauling much of how the D&D item system works.  Probably the simplest solution would be to reprice everything so that its price matched its power level, which would be a monumental task to say the least.  If one wishes to keep the general item rules and pricing the same I think you would be best served looking for solutions that are more complex but more complete.  Which address the inherent need of certain classes to get certain items while also allowing the players the freedom to waste money on Treasure, Trinkets and Junk if they so choose.  If I want to buy my Healer boots of jumping just so I can say "Yes, white wizards can jump" I should be able to without crippling my character, but I should be making a trade-off as well.  And this is the problem of most solutions.  Items have a tendency to railroad many characters and any solution needs to add some switches in the track without derailing the train.

[strider24seven]

Wealth and Treasure's usefulness vastly depends on a number of factors.  Many of those have been discussed.  I will now discuss the nature of "magic amount" and "wealth amount".

Many people have played in High Magic games, but not High Wealth games.  Likewise, many have played in Low Magic Games, but not Low Wealth games. 

"Magic Amount" can be defined as the general availability and strength of magic items, spells, and powers.  A Low Magic game would see the party fighter getting owning a +1 Longsword by level 8, for example.  A high magic game would see that same fighter with a +3 or even +4 Longsword by that time. 

"Wealth Amount" can be defined as the general availability and strength of the "adventurers' economy."  A Low Wealth game would see the party skillmonkey with armor, a few weapons, a few tools, and maybe some magic items by level 8.  A High Wealth game would see that same skillmonkey with an inventory sheet the size of a Robert Jordan novel by level 8. 

Treasure, no matter what the type, makes more of a difference in Low Wealth games, and less of a difference in High Wealth games.  However, the type of the treasure makes more of a difference in Low Magic games, because average characters need appropriate items to function on a CR-appropriate encounters.  In High Magic games, the type makes even more of a difference because the boni are so much more prevalant. 

My 2 cp on treasure.

[jameswilliamogle]

I'm trying that in a game that I'm just starting (as DM). The PCs will get:
    *  All characters have an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, enhancement bonus to armour or shield AC bonuses (if any), resistance bonus to saves and enhancement bonus to all ability scores equal to their character level divided by 3, rounding down.
    * All characters have a deflection bonus to AC equal to their character level divided by 4, rounding down.
    * All characters have a competence bonus to all skills equal to their character level.

This was originally a suggestion by MrSinister, and is similar to the scaling item bonuses on magic items in Frank and K's Tome series. I'm just doing away with the items. The game will be limited magic items, however, and I'm using a system where constant effect magic items have to be "attuned", and you can only use 3 of them at once. So the game should be quite a bit less item dependent than typical for 3.X D&D. I'm interested in seeing how it works out.

Do you think this would mess up prepared casters (Wizard / Wu Jen)?  They require so much stinkin' GP for their spellbooks...  They don't need the enhancement items, but they still have to spend the equivalent just for their dang spellcasting ability.

[PhaedrusXY]

Do you think this would mess up prepared casters (Wizard / Wu Jen)?  They require so much stinkin' GP for their spellbooks...  They don't need the enhancement items, but they still have to spend the equivalent just for their dang spellcasting ability.

That's an interesting point, and one that I hadn't actually considered. I haven't had anyone play a prepared spellcaster under this system, or the F&K Tome system which it borrows certain aspects from. You're worried that they're going to have too much money, since they're not spending it on this stuff, and will be able to afford bigger spellbooks than normal?

Or did you read more in the actual thread, and notice that I'm basically not using WBL at all? And wonder how I'd handle spellbooks?

I don't think the first one would be a problem, really. If you're still using WBL and handing out money/treasure/whatever, you can just reduce the amount appropriately due to the "free" scaling bonuses the PCs are getting.

The second one is a bit more difficult, and something I'll have to grapple with if someone decides to play a prepared spellcaster.

[jameswilliamogle]

I was asking about the latter, but if nobody is playing a prepared spellcaster then I guess it hardly matters.

[PhaedrusXY]

I was asking about the latter, but if nobody is playing a prepared spellcaster then I guess it hardly matters.

If they're not taking something like Uncanny Forethought, then it probably won't matter much. They'll only be able to cast what they've prepared, and people usually find a way to cram anything they think might ever be useful in their spellbook, anyway. So you could seriously probably just let them make a spellbook with any spells they wanted. The cleric and druid can already prepare any spell on their list, so this isn't really that big of a power-up if you think they're balanced ( ).

Of course... most optimizers would take Uncanny Forethought with a wizard, which opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. That's probably more about the feat than the wealth system, though. It's going to come up in any game where wizards can cram their spellbooks full, which is most games past a certain level.

[jameswilliamogle]

Right; if you give the flat level-based bonuses, that suits melee and skill monkeys just fine, and I believe is intended to give them a leg-up which I think is good.  Druids make out like bandits too, as they have to devote a lot more effort into making their equipment wildshape independent, and they were going to invest in this stuff anyways.  Clerics gain, too, but not any more relative to the melee types.  The only characters that don't seem to get a lot out of it relative to the others are the non-melee casters.  If the treasure / equipment is reduced b/c of these flat bonuses, I think that it would mess up prepared-from-book spellcasters relative to the others, reducing their power relative to the party (I don't think thats really so bad, personally, but it still doesn't respond well to CoD).  (Wu Jen, Wizard, Archivist, Factotum, too, I guess, though not as bad)

It does seem to ease bookkeeping...  IDK.

[veekie]

Do you think this would mess up prepared casters (Wizard / Wu Jen)?  They require so much stinkin' GP for their spellbooks...  They don't need the enhancement items, but they still have to spend the equivalent just for their dang spellcasting ability.

That's an interesting point, and one that I hadn't actually considered. I haven't had anyone play a prepared spellcaster under this system, or the F&K Tome system which it borrows certain aspects from. You're worried that they're going to have too much money, since they're not spending it on this stuff, and will be able to afford bigger spellbooks than normal?

Actually, a little thought about this proved of little consequence, the wizard simply needs to move some of the money he normally uses on partially charged wands and utility scrolls over to spell acquisition, as he already has the solutions prepared, and normally, the costs for the extra spells he needs to have is nowhere near the amount of cash the stat bonus items cost. 4 spells per spell level cover most of your daily needs pretty damned well, and spells you'd actually prepare without prior notice might stretch to maybe 5 spells per spell level(excepting maybe level 3 spells, that level holds a lot of staples) on average.

Long story short, those extra spells? They're Treasure, not Equipment.

[JaronK]

Well, the majority of the equipment are stat buffers, so you could give that away for free, inherent in every character. Then you could hurl treasure more or less safely.

I've been playing around with ways to do exactly this for a while now.  The solution I've got so far is to give everyone bonuses which are very similar to the Vow of Poverty bonuses (feats didn't have to be exalted, and I altered the stat boosts a little and made other minor changes).  These bonuses apply to all weapons and armor and whatnot that you might pick up.  Then I drastically reduced WBL (down to 10% normal), and said that magic items don't have numerical bonuses (so it's just a Keen Rapier, not a Keen +1 Rapier).  The result is pretty close to what the OP is talking about, namely a separation of Treasure and Equipment.  Your equipment is inherent.  That little WBL is mostly treasure, though some equipment has to be slipped in (items that let people fly for example, and mundane gear that's easy to get or make anyway).  Sure a Keen Rapier is nice, but it's not that different from a normal Rapier when you automatically give all your weapons +4 anyway.

I thought about reworking the feats to give some special magical abilities instead, such as being able to take a VoP feat slot for the ability to make any weapon you wield flaming or to fill in gaps such as flight abilities.  Haven't finished the full concept yet, though.

As for prepared full casters, it's not a problem... they get less money and thus fewer spells, but they were too strong anyway so that's fine.

JaronK

[jameswilliamogle]

@ Veekie - Just playing Devil's Advocate: One of the major points of the prepared casters is to have versatility, at the cost of immediate access.  Spellbooks, etc., are all class features.  Requiring treasure for a class feature, I believe, is not great.

How do all these modifications work with Truenamers?  (I know its a bad example, as the class is broken anyways, but still...)

[veekie]

Theres versatility, quite a lot of it in fact, with 5 spells known per spell level. More than that is increasingly niche and unlikely to see play, or else redundant over the same role