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Author Topic: [3.5e] Variant Rules on Types and Ability Scores  (Read 1340 times)
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« on: September 07, 2010, 01:20:15 AM »

Some rules changing the basic properties of Undead and Constructs in an effort to make it easier for players to play Undead/Construct characters and for DMs to make challenging Undead/Construct enemies.

Fortification: Instead of it's previous meanings, instead represents a bonus to Armor Class against critical confirmation rolls.  If a creature with sneak attack or similar abilities hits a creature with fortification, the attack roll must beat the Armor Class of the creature by as much as the creature's Fortification bonus or more or the extra damage from sneak attack is negated.  The armor abilities of Light Fortification, Fortification, and Heavy Fortification give their user Fortification 2, Fortification 5, and Fortification 10 instead of their previous abilities.  Fortification from multiple sources doesn't stack unless explicitly stated otherwise.

New Ability Score - Toughness: An ability score that replaces Constitution for non-living creatures.  Like Constitution, Toughness increases a monster's hit points, Fortitude saves, and Concentration skill checks.  Templates that remove a creature's constitution score instead change that score into Toughness, and any abilities that creature has based off of Constitution are instead based off Toughness.  The following are traits common to all monsters with a Toughness score:
  • Immune to strength damage, strength drain, dexterity damage, dexterity drain, toughness damage, toughness drain, death attacks, energy drain, stunning, paralysis, poison, disease, fatigue, exhaustion, sickening, nausea, and nonlethal damage.
  • Cannot benefit from Regeneration.  If a creature with Regeneration loses their Constitution score, they lose their Regeneration ability and gain Fast Healing with the same value as the lost Regeneration.
  • Gains the Fortification ability with a value equal to the creature's Toughness bonus.
  • Does not need to eat, drink, or breathe.
Note- Incorporating this because I feel that Undead and Constructs are ridiculously vulnerable to Slaying Arrows.  Even a 20 HD undead creature can be taken out 30% of the time with a Greater Undead Slaying arrow, and that's without applying effects that reduce saves.

Mindless: Creatures that have no Intelligence score or lose their Intelligence score when a template is applied are mindless.  They gain no skill points, cannot obtain feats (except bonus feats), and cannot take class levels in any class.  If a creature has abilities keyed to intelligence before receiving a template that causes them to lose their Intelligence score, they lose the aforementioned abilities.  Mindless creatures are immune to mind-affecting effects.

Note- Listed for completeness.

Constructs: Creatures of the Construct type have the following features:
  • 10-sided Hit Dice
  • 3/4 BAB (as Cleric)
  • Good Fortitude Saving Throws
  • Skill points equal to 2+Int modifier (minimum 1), with quadruple skill points with the first hit die.
  • No Constitution Score, Constructs have a Toughness score instead.
  • Low-Light Vision
  • Darkvision
  • Does not heal naturally.
  • Not at risk of death from massive damage.
  • Immediately destroyed at 0 HP.
  • Cannot be raised or resurrected, although a Wish or Miracle spell can bring a construct back to life.
  • Proficient with natural weapons only.
  • Not proficient with any armor.
  • Does not need to sleep.

Undead:  Creatures of the Undead type have the following features:
  • d6 HD
  • 1/2 BAB (as Wizard)
  • Good Will Saving Throws
  • Skill points equal to 2+Int modifier (minimum 1), with quadruple skill points with the first hit die.
  • No Constitution Score, Undead have a Toughness score instead.
  • Darkvision
  • Does not heal naturally.
  • Not at risk of death from massive damage.
  • Immediately destroyed at 0 HP.
  • Raise Dead and Reincarnate restore creatures to life, not to undeath, so a destroyed undead creature targeted by one of these spells reverts to what they were before they became an undead creature.
  • Mindless undead are proficient with their natural weapons and simple weapons.  Intelligent undead are proficient with whatever weapons they are granted by their class(es).
  • Undead are not automatically proficient with armor.
  • Mindless undead do not sleep.  Intelligent undead need 8 hours of sleep just as living creatures do.

Note- Hit points with Undead and Constructs should remain about the same, although Undead players will receive a notable boost in their hit points.  This should also noticeably reduce the LA of various undead creatures and templates because of the loss of a lot of the built-in immunities, making it easier for a player to play an undead creature.  This should also negate a common tactic of players to ditch a poor Constitution score by picking up the Necropolitan template, making it easier to adjudicate the total LA of a race that might be balanced by Constitution bonuses/penalties, but then turned into an Undead/Construct via templates.
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Bauglir
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2010, 10:54:55 AM »

How does Unholy Toughness interact with the Toughness score, out of curiosity?
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So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.
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Organ Grinder
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 12:29:02 AM »

How does Unholy Toughness interact with the Toughness score, out of curiosity?
No huge reason to not leave it as-is.  If you assign the monster a Toughness score of 16, it will have exactly the same HP, if you give it something in the 20ish range then it will only have slightly more.

The big thing about this is making undead characters more viable, and having an easy source of HP is critical to making any kind of undead Fighter.  As far as I know, it's impossible for a character to obtain Unholy Toughness without resorting to Pun-Pun-esque shenanigans, and I don't even remember the name of that one Dragon feat that originated years ago and caused threads full of Necrophilia jokes on 339.
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RobbyPants
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 08:12:24 AM »

I like a lot of this.  The new take on fortification is pretty simple, and it accomplishes the same thing.  It probably takes as much time or less to resolve, so that's a good thing too.  It's also a handy way to handle crit-immune baddies without making them flat-out immune.  Nice.

I have mixed feelings on toughness.  I like the effect as a whole and I see why you did it.  Admittedly, it's far more elegant than anything I've come up with to date.

Just to be sure: are only mindless undead immune to [Mind Affecting] spells?  If so, I like it!  I've always felt that undead should be susceptible.  I can see a justification to giving them some bonus against [Fear] effects or something, but I still think they should be vulnerable.


All in all: nice changes.  Fairly simple to implement, other than the on-the-fly changes to constructs and undead.  Even then, it's not that hard for the DM to stat out ahead of time.  Do you mind if I use some of these ideas in my project if I give you credit?
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Bauglir
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 12:54:30 PM »

How does Unholy Toughness interact with the Toughness score, out of curiosity?
No huge reason to not leave it as-is.  If you assign the monster a Toughness score of 16, it will have exactly the same HP, if you give it something in the 20ish range then it will only have slightly more.

The big thing about this is making undead characters more viable, and having an easy source of HP is critical to making any kind of undead Fighter.  As far as I know, it's impossible for a character to obtain Unholy Toughness without resorting to Pun-Pun-esque shenanigans, and I don't even remember the name of that one Dragon feat that originated years ago and caused threads full of Necrophilia jokes on 339.

Dry Lich is the usual method of obtaining Unholy Toughness for a PC. Not too bad, if the template doesn't have LA if you get it from Walker in the Waste.
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So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.
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Organ Grinder
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Posts: 3941



« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 03:31:27 PM »

Just to be sure: are only mindless undead immune to [Mind Affecting] spells?  If so, I like it!  I've always felt that undead should be susceptible.  I can see a justification to giving them some bonus against [Fear] effects or something, but I still think they should be vulnerable.
Yes, I think it's enough that they're immune to the typical Hold Person, Charm Person, etc. spells by virtue of their type.  It's also silly that an accidentally powerful 2nd-level Command Undead spell can take control of them but a 4th-level Charm Monster can't even influence them.

All in all: nice changes.  Fairly simple to implement, other than the on-the-fly changes to constructs and undead.  Even then, it's not that hard for the DM to stat out ahead of time.  Do you mind if I use some of these ideas in my project if I give you credit?
Sure.  Half the reason I'm putting them up here is so people will use it.
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