Demilich weaknesses

[Smokey_the_bear]

Do they exist? I have a friend that is going to play one simply because he feels it is invincible. I am determined to show him that everything has its weaknesses and I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out the best and most comprehensive way to at the very least immobilize him. Any suggestions?

[Prime32]

Level? Sources allowed?

[Smokey_the_bear]

Level? Sources allowed?

30, and all sources.

[skydragonknight]

Demiliches have the same weakness most things have: Epic Spells.

[snakeman830]

Demiliches have the same weakness most things have: Epic Spells.

Have you seen their Magic Immunity?  It even excludes Supernatural effects.

I'd say the weakness is Grappling.  If you can negate Freedom of Movement (possible with an AMF or an Epic spell designed to negate it), you can grapple them with ease (that -12 to Grapple checks is painful).  Just be sure you're protected against its touch attacks and dunk it in Holy Water.  Total submersion ought to work.

Then make sure you smash phylactry and soul gems.

[skydragonknight]

A modified Mithril Golem with Swallow Whole that can act as a "Containment Unit"

[Smokey_the_bear]

Demiliches have the same weakness most things have: Epic Spells.

Have you seen their Magic Immunity?  It even excludes Supernatural effects.

I'd say the weakness is Grappling.  If you can negate Freedom of Movement (possible with an AMF or an Epic spell designed to negate it), you can grapple them with ease (that -12 to Grapple checks is painful).  Just be sure you're protected against its touch attacks and dunk it in Holy Water.  Total submersion ought to work.

Then make sure you smash phylactry and soul gems.

I had thought about the Holy Water idea. It would just take 1d6 per flask X however many flasks I can empty into any "containment unit". An AMF would negate most of its abilities, (DR, Spell Immunity, Phylactery Transference, Fear Aura, and Paralyzing Touch). The negation of the Prz touch would make grappling it a lot easier though the modified mithril Golem wouldn't have to worry about that anyway. Though I think it would make more of an impact if my character personally picked him up and dunked him into a fish bowl of jesus juice XD

[skydragonknight]

I forget. Do meta-magicked orbs (instantaneous conjuration) bypass magic immunity?

[carnivore]

a Demilich has a +10 Fort save ..... hit it with a Undead Dread(+7 bonus) Weapon ... forces a DC 27 Fort save or be Destroyed .... a couple of wacks ought to do it ... combined with a Mighty Disruption(+6 bonus) weapon forces another DC 21 Fort save or be destroyed ... note ... this happens with every hit

so a Fighter 30 with a +1 Mighty Disruption Undead Dread Weapon ... should do a nice job of it


 

[snakeman830]

Something we're all forgetting is that Demiliches have multiple layers of immortaility.  First is undeath, second is their insane abilities, third is the phylactry/soul gems.

Fourth is the hardest to deal with: Astral Projection at will.  You'll have a hard time making sure the thing is dead because the real body could be anywhere.

[Bozwevial]

I'm curious--does the demilich's DR apply to the holy water? Wait, no, total immersion would up the damage. Yes?

[Gunhaven]

I was going to say the +10 LA (I think).  Unless you were a Dread Necromancer, then you're be 20 DN/ 4 X.  And does the Phylactery even have to be with the body?  Couldn't it be somewhere in the middle of Limbo or in some other spot that would make it impossible to get to?

[weenog]

Demiliches have the same weakness most things have: Epic Spells.

Have you seen their Magic Immunity?  It even excludes Supernatural effects.

I'd say the weakness is Grappling.  If you can negate Freedom of Movement (possible with an AMF or an Epic spell designed to negate it), you can grapple them with ease (that -12 to Grapple checks is painful).  Just be sure you're protected against its touch attacks and dunk it in Holy Water.  Total submersion ought to work.

Then make sure you smash phylactry and soul gems.

I had thought about the Holy Water idea. It would just take 1d6 per flask X however many flasks I can empty into any "containment unit". An AMF would negate most of its abilities, (DR, Spell Immunity, Phylactery Transference, Fear Aura, and Paralyzing Touch). The negation of the Prz touch would make grappling it a lot easier though the modified mithril Golem wouldn't have to worry about that anyway. Though I think it would make more of an impact if my character personally picked him up and dunked him into a fish bowl of jesus juice XD

Why bother with multiple flasks?  Give yourself water breathing, empty one flask onto the floor to make a puddle, then hit it with raise water and get to grappling.

[Smokey_the_bear]

I'm curious--does the demilich's DR apply to the holy water? Wait, no, total immersion would up the damage. Yes?

DR only applies to physical attacks.

[Bozwevial]

I'm curious--does the demilich's DR apply to the holy water? Wait, no, total immersion would up the damage. Yes?

DR only applies to physical attacks.

Ah, right. In any case, it wouldn't really matter since being totally immersed in holy water would deal much more damage than being splashed with it. Certainly more than 15 points of damage, in any case.

[skydragonknight]

So an anti-magic field above a giant trap door that will open under minuscule pressure above a giant bathtub filled with holy water? Demilich flight is suppressed by AMF, isn't it?

[Archmage Joda]

I was going to say the +10 LA (I think).  Unless you were a Dread Necromancer, then you're be 20 DN/ 4 X.  And does the Phylactery even have to be with the body?  Couldn't it be somewhere in the middle of Limbo or in some other spot that would make it impossible to get to?

Does the demilich have a printed LA somewhere? It doesn't seem to have on in the Epic Level Handbook, the 3.5 Update for such, or the SRD, so if so, where is this LA?

[Naldor]

If you want poetic justice, have one of its greatest strength's be a weakness; its undead nature renders it vulnerable to turning.  I've got archived a 20 level cleric based build which can reliably turn a demi-lich.  It was from the 2004 CO contest at 339, which is now lost to board wipes, but if a character 10 levels lower can insta-kill it...

As to the soul-gems / phylactery, the text on making a demi-lich says that the soul gems are incorporated to its major form, which I take to read as the phylactery.  So there's only one thing to find, and you have 24 hours in which to do so, which ought to be no problem for a half decent wizard.

As an alternative method of killing it, may I suggest the holy-water squirt gun of DOOM? 

You take a decanter of endless water, weld a funnel to the end, and put the tip of the funnel into a chalice which converts all water entering it into holy water, then put the entire assembly into a hollow steel tube.  You drill a hole in the end opposite the direction in which the decanter is aimed. 

The result (and this has been posted before by others) is a squirt gun shooting out holy water.  Where's the EPIC DEATH you say?

Its simple.  If each piece of the assembly is coated in quintessence so as to be indestructible (either this, or make everything out of riverine), the system can handle very high pressures.  According to my calculations, if you make the the pinhole (you're really better off with a long tube of interior diameter of the right size) have a radius of 4.483 microns, you will achieve water velocities in excess of 99.9999995% the speed of light.  You know how they use water jets to cut steel?  Now imagine if every water molecule had 10,000 times its normal mass due to relativistic effects.  Hell, make the hole 4 microns in radius and you could slice entire cities in twain.  DR 30 suddenly doesn't look very impressive.  And best of all, fast-moving holy water is completely non-magical, so you can even go around carving up golems and colossi.

PM me or post if you'd like me to send you that super turning build, as its rather lengthy, but I'd be quite happy to zip it up (saved it as an html file) and e-mail it to you.

[Gunhaven]

I was going to say the +10 LA (I think).  Unless you were a Dread Necromancer, then you're be 20 DN/ 4 X.  And does the Phylactery even have to be with the body?  Couldn't it be somewhere in the middle of Limbo or in some other spot that would make it impossible to get to?

Does the demilich have a printed LA somewhere? It doesn't seem to have on in the Epic Level Handbook, the 3.5 Update for such, or the SRD, so if so, where is this LA?

I'm not entirely sure.  I just went with +6 because of the CR and it seems like a reasonable thing to do when coming up with a LA when there isn't one.

[weenog]

Er, Naldor, your calculations neglect to take into account that D&D does not care about little things like inertia and pressure.  99.9999995% the speed of light isn't that impressive anyway, you can exceed c entirely with the commoner railgun.  That one's useless for doing damage too because at the end of the line the hammer just drops as it would if only one commoner had passed it into empty space.