Commx
Ring-Tailed Lemur
 
Posts: 36
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« on: June 28, 2008, 06:18:09 AM » |
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Wizards gave us Illusions, but we still don't have any Summoners. So I tried to do something about it by attempting to change the Summon Monster line to 4E. I'm quite happy with the result although I do think some balancing will be required with the higher level Powers. So far, I've only play-tested Summon Monster I, and it works quite good. The Minion is somewhat more powerful than the effects of other Encounter spells, but the Wizard has to give up his valuable Standard actions to use it as anything other than a roadblock. Revised Rules are in post 5.Summoning Power Type: A Summoning Power brings one or more additional creatures into the fight. Summons are completely controlled by the character or creature that brought them into existence and act directly after it in the Initiative order. The same character or creature can only have one Summoning Power in effect at the same time. If it uses a second one before the first has run out, the creatures created by the first one immediately wink out of existence.
Summon Monster I Wizard Attack 1 You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 5 Effect: You summon one Minion of a level up to the Wizard’s level or 10, whichever is lower. This Minion acts immediately after the Wizard and lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. Directing the Minion uses up a Standard action.
Summon Monster II Wizard Attack 7 You summon a pair of minor creatures to keep your enemies at bay. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 5 Effect: You summon two identical Minions of a level up to the Wizard’s level or 10, whichever is lower. These Minions last until the end of the Encounter or until they are slain. Directing the Minions uses up a Standard action.
Summon Monster III Wizard Attack 13 You summon a moderately powerful creature to fight your enemies for you. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 10 Effect: You summon one normal (non-Elite, and non-Solo) creature of a level up to the Wizard’s level or 20, whichever is lower. This creature has HP equal to its normal Bloodied value instead of its normal amount and its Bloodied value is reduced accordingly. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. Directing the creature uses up a Move action.
Summon Monster IV Wizard Attack 17 You summon a pair of moderately powerful creatures to fight your enemies for you. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 10 Effect: You summon two identical normal (non-Elite, and non-Solo) creatures of a level up to the Wizard’s level or 20, whichever is lower. These creatures have HP equal to their normal Bloodied value instead of their normal amount and their Bloodied value is reduced accordingly. These creatures last until the end of the Encounter or until they are slain. Directing the creatures uses up a Move action.
Summon Monster V Wizard Attack 23 You conjure a strong creature to destroy your enemies. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 15 Effect: You summon one normal (non-Elite, and non-Solo) creature of a level up to the Wizard’s level or 30, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. Directing the creature uses up a Minor action.
Summon Monster VI Wizard Attack 27 You conjure several strong creatures to destroy your enemies. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 15 Effect: You summon d3+1 normal (non-Elite, and non-Solo) creatures of a level up to the Wizard’s level or 30, whichever is lower. These creatures last until the end of the Encounter or until they are slain. Directing the creatures uses up a Minor action.
Gate Wizard Attack 23 You call forth a creature of great power to do your bidding. Daily * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 10 Effect: You summon one Solo creature of a level up to the Wizard’s level or 30, whichever is lower. This creature serves the caster for up to one hour or until it is slain. Directing the creature is a free action.
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« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 04:01:04 AM by Commx »
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Feyd
Ring-Tailed Lemur
 
Posts: 23
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2008, 12:40:02 PM » |
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Have you playtested this yet? How did it go?
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Commx
Ring-Tailed Lemur
 
Posts: 36
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2008, 03:59:02 PM » |
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Have you playtested this yet? How did it go?
So far, I've only play-tested Summon Monster I, and it works quite good. The Minion is somewhat more powerful than the effects of other Encounter spells, but the Wizard has to give up his valuable Standard actions to use it as anything other than a roadblock.
The main advantage is that even if it only takes one hit to kill, that is one hit the Wizard or the party isn't taking. The offensive capabilities aren't exactly spectacular, so it is more of a battlefield control (having another creature that takes up space, can make attacks of opportunity and help with flanking and the such) than a way of dealing more damage. This will probably be different with the higher Summon Monster spells where the Wizard can summon creatures that can actually take a few hits before dying and have their own abilities to use.
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Runestar
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2008, 11:40:33 PM » |
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What are your thoughts on running summons like flaming sphere? You spend a minor action to sustain it, a standard action to have it attack, and a move action to direct it. This way, you don't run into problems with getting more actions than you ought to. In a way, you are effectively trading your wizard for whatever monster you summon for the duration of the battle.
This could make it easier to balance? The sort of monster you can summon would be roughly equivalent in power to a PC of that lv?
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A clear conscience is the surest sign of a failing memory.
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Commx
Ring-Tailed Lemur
 
Posts: 36
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2008, 04:00:25 AM » |
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Flaming Sphere is actually a good comparison, although using the actions on a one for one basis from one through thirty doesn't seem right to me. It would have the advantage of being able to summon 'real' creatures at all levels instead of having to summon Minions or Half HP creatures. Now I think about it again, this method is probably superior, so here is the revised version of the Summon Monster line, and the Summoning Power Type. (As 4 Minions are seen as equal to one monster from the challenge side of view, I am assuming that having the Wizard trade his actions for those of more than one Minion is also not unbalancing.) I've added in the progression which allows the creature to take actions without the Wizard sacrificing his own to show his control becoming more powerful at higher levels, and because I felt that a higher level version of the Power should do more than simply give a higher level creature. Summoning Power Type:A Summoning Power brings one or more additional creatures into the fight. Summons are completely controlled by the character or creature that brought them into existence and act directly after it in the Initiative order. The same character or creature can only have one Summoning Power in effect at the same time. If it uses a second one before the first has run out, the creatures created by the first one immediately wink out of existence. For a Summoned creature to take actions, its Controller must use up the type of action it wants the creature to take to direct it. (Ie. If a Wizard wants his Summon to make a Basic Attack, he must spend his own Standard action directing it.) When a Summoning Power creates more than one creature, the Controller needs to spend only one action to make all the creatures perform that action. Summon Monster I Wizard Attack 1 You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 5 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or three, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain.
Summon Monster I Wizard Attack 1 You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 5 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or three, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain.
Summon Monster II Wizard Attack 3 You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 5 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or seven, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Minor action each round without the Wizard giving up his own.
Summon Monster III Wizard Attack 7 You summon a minor creature to keep your enemies at bay. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 5 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twelve, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Minor action each round without the Wizard giving up his own. Alternatively, you summon 1d3 Minions of the same level.
Summon Monster IV Wizard Attack 13 You summon a moderately powerful creature to fight your enemies for you. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 10 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or sixteen, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Move action each round without the Wizard giving up his own. Alternatively, you summon 1d3+1 Minions of the same level. These can each take a single Minor action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.
Summon Monster V Wizard Attack 17 You summon a moderately powerful creature to fight your enemies for you. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 10 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twenty-two, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. Alternatively, you summon 1d3+1 Minions of the same level. All creatures summoned by this spell can each take a single Move action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.
Summon Monster VI Wizard Attack 23 You conjure a strong creature to destroy your enemies. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 15 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twenty-six, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. This creature may take a single Standard action each round without the Wizard giving up his own. Alternatively, you summon 1d3+1 Minions of the same level. These can each take a single Move action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.
Summon Monster VII Wizard Attack 27 You conjure several strong creatures to destroy your enemies. Encounter * Arcane, Summoning Standard Action Ranged 15 Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or thirty, whichever is lower. This creature lasts until the end of the Encounter or until it is slain. Alternatively, you summon 1d4+1 Minions of the same level. All creatures summoned by this spell can each take a single Standard action each turn without the Wizard giving up his own.
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SorO_Lost
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 03:38:57 PM » |
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Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or three, whichever is lower. <snip> Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or seven, whichever is lower. <snip> Effect: You summon one creature of up to the Wizard's Level or twelve, whichever is lower. <snip>
Too much scaling, it should be a fixed rate. Have you considered using sustain standard for simplicity? Good job so far, but it don't suck enough to be called 4E.
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Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game. 6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai. 5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk. 4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif. 3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage. 2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen. 1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard. 0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
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Commx
Ring-Tailed Lemur
 
Posts: 36
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 05:16:37 PM » |
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The 'scaling' is there to match the Power Progression. Basically, you have to take the Summon Monster Power each time you get a new Encounter Power, or your Summons will be weaker than the monsters you will be fighting. I could make it a fixed rate, but that would become a bit odd.
Sustain Standard was something I considered for a moment, but it would mean even more clauses in the Summoning Power Type to avoid the Wizard summoning a creature then legging it. (A bit like the original Paladin Mark issue.)
Err... thanks I suppose?
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EjoThims
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 08:30:09 PM » |
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Very nice, though the open-ended-ness of the creature summoned could become a problem over time with new books.
Also, for the higher level summons, what if the wizard does still give up his standard actions.
Does the creature (or creatures) then get to make two?
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