General Dread Necro advice

[RobbyPants]

Edit 2:
While I'm at it, does anyone know of a way to get Animate Dead material component-free, outside of using Spell-Stitching^MM2 or prestige classes (like Pale Master^LM, Baron of the Grave, Corpselight Whisperer, et al)?

The Fell Animate metamagic feat from Libris Mortis is actually pretty good for that.  It's a +3 slot adjustment, but you just put it on a cantrip like Ray of Frost or Acid Splash to kill something you've already KOed.  Not bad for a 3rd level spell.  The only real downside is that it only makes zombies, and not skeletons.

Aye, I suppose, but it doesn't seem like the most efficient use of a feat and/or spell slots.

Yeah, it does burn a feat.  It's really only cool if you're having trouble getting the onyx you need for your hoard.  I may or may not resort to something like this just due to past campaigns with the DM.  I can think of two occasions (different campaigns even) where we chased after a necromancer who'd knocked over a gem store just to get them.

The DM may or may not be tight-fisted about this, so I might find a cheaper way of doing so.

Edit:
BTW, where is Sickening Grasp from, and what does it do?

Sickening Grasp is a reserve feat from Complete Mage. As long as you have a Necromancy spell of a certain level or higher (3rd lvl, I think it is?) in reserve, then you can use a touch attack to sicken a living target. It also gives you a permanent +1 competence bonus to effective caster level for Necromancy spells.

Thanks.  I have that, but I just forgot about it.

Regarding Carnal Touch, which is a free action usable once per round, can that be applied to this touch attack?  For that matter, can it be applied to other touch attacks like Chill Touch or Inflict Light Wounds?  A strict wording of the rule hints at it, but I'm not entirely sure.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Elixir of the Unfailing Servant (Drow of the Underdark) is an interesting alternative to fell animate, though it has a few control issues.  On the plus side, it's a wondrous item, since Brew Potion can't have nice things.

[RobbyPants]

Brew Potion: the Fighter of [item creation] feats.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

The only product I've seen with decent potions for brew potion is Kingdoms of Kalamar player's guide.

The potion of subversion is pretty cool.  +10 on charisma checks and skill checks when trying to overthrow governments for d6 hours.  So as long as you're trying to cause chaos and terror with your iaijutsu focus, you can cut a tank in half.

[RobbyPants]

My DM is starting to worry me with looming house-rules, but most of them are still up in the air.  If I find out more, I'll post it here to see how much it really changes things.

I know he's using the UA Spellpoint system, possibly with the vitalizing variant.  I've always found that variant interesting in concept, but the idea of things like Touch of Fatigue sapping half your SP is pretty nuts.  Although, you can gain 2/3 of them back with Lesser Restoration, so, whatever.  That being said, I may want to look into picking up immunity to fatigue.  I can talk to the DM about being undead, but right now I'm leaning away from it.  

Is there an easy way to either get fatigue immunity or get Lesser Restoration on my spell list (or a cheap x/day item) that you know of?

Also, it looks like the game is starting at level 2 or 3.

[zaulsiin]

Is there an easy way to either get fatigue immunity or get Lesser Restoration on my spell list (or a cheap x/day item) that you know of?

Be Warforged, Undead (or Necropolitan), take a level in Horizon Walker (the desert one).
Also: Armor of the Unending Hunt^{Complete Warrior}.
Also: Tireless regional feat from Forgotten Realms

There's also the Sandals of the Vagabond from Complete Champion, but they don't really affect fatigue, just exhaustion.

As for getting lesser restoration on your list, only way that I can think of is the Eclectic Learning Warmage ACF from PHB2. Though it's not a sor/wiz spell, so that may not apply, depending on how you try to adapt it to the Dread Necro. Hmm... I'd probably just pick up a wand and call it a day.

[Daedalus]

Arcane disciple (Renewal) might be an option depending on deity's alignment pre req. (Charm person lvl 1 & lesser restoration @ 2nd lvl Domain with Reincarnation @ lvl 4)

[RobbyPants]

Regarding the wand, it's certainly simple.  Even without UMD as a class skill, 2 skill points gives me a rank, and I can just spam UMD attempts until I hit a DC 20 out of combat.  So far as I can tell, there's no penalty for failing a UMD check with a wand other than failing to activate it.  I'd still have to be careful during a fight...

Arcane Disciple is an interesting thought.  I'd only need a Wis 12 to pull that off, although a higher Wis would net me more mileage form the feat.

[snakeman830]

Regarding the wand, it's certainly simple.  Even without UMD as a class skill, 2 skill points gives me a rank, and I can just spam UMD attempts until I hit a DC 20 out of combat.  So far as I can tell, there's no penalty for failing a UMD check with a wand other than failing to activate it.  I'd still have to be careful during a fight...

Arcane Disciple is an interesting thought.  I'd only need a Wis 12 to pull that off, although a higher Wis would net me more mileage form the feat.

If you roll a 1 and fail to activate it, you can't activate it for 24 hours, so yeah, there's a penalty.

[RobbyPants]

Damnit.  I don't know how I missed that.

So I guess the trick is to buy 50 wands with one charge each!

[The_Mad_Linguist]

My DM is starting to worry me with looming house-rules, but most of them are still up in the air.  If I find out more, I'll post it here to see how much it really changes things.

I know he's using the UA Spellpoint system, possibly with the vitalizing variant.  I've always found that variant interesting in concept, but the idea of things like Touch of Fatigue sapping half your SP is pretty nuts.  Although, you can gain 2/3 of them back with Lesser Restoration, so, whatever.  That being said, I may want to look into picking up immunity to fatigue.  I can talk to the DM about being undead, but right now I'm leaning away from it.  

Is there an easy way to either get fatigue immunity or get Lesser Restoration on my spell list (or a cheap x/day item) that you know of?

Also, it looks like the game is starting at level 2 or 3.

There's a feat that makes you impossible to exhaust and a flaw that makes fatigue always move to exhaustion, IIRC.

[RobbyPants]

Ha!  That's ridiculous.  So, by RAW, for free, everyone can be immune to both!

I doubt that will fly.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

No, wait a sec, it's a trait, not a flaw.

[JaronK]

Regarding Carnal Touch, which is a free action usable once per round, can that be applied to this touch attack?  For that matter, can it be applied to other touch attacks like Chill Touch or Inflict Light Wounds?  A strict wording of the rule hints at it, but I'm not entirely sure.

Charnal Touch is a standard action.

JaronK

[zaulsiin]

Regarding Carnal Touch, which is a free action usable once per round, can that be applied to this touch attack?  For that matter, can it be applied to other touch attacks like Chill Touch or Inflict Light Wounds?  A strict wording of the rule hints at it, but I'm not entirely sure.

Charnal Touch is a standard action.

JaronK

Indeed. Default action for a Su ability is standard, unless noted otherwise. As such, the DN's Negative Energy Burst is also a standard action. But it's rather annoying that some of the rules text is so unclear in Heroes of Horror.

A somewhat related question (ie. unclear rules text): What's the duration on the Dread Necro's Fear Aura shaken effect (or the default duration for fear auras in general)? The most similar ability that I can think of is a dragon's Frightful Presence, and Draconomicon lists the duration of this at 4d6 rounds, but I haven't been able to find any other sort of default duration for similar abilities.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Completely undefined.  You could argue that since it has no defined ending point that it lasts forever , but most people just houserule it to be 'dread necromancer level round', 'one round', or 'until the end of the encounter'.

[JaronK]

Yup.  They never bothered to state how long the effect lasts.  By RAW, you simply "become Shaken" and lacking any ability to change that condition you stay that way until something tells you you're not (like a spell that removes fear, or something).  You could stay Shaken for years.  I strongly doubt that's how it's meant to be played, but nothing in the Dread Necromancer rules actually gives a duration to this ability.  You're pretty much going to have to house rule.

My group uses "Class level rounds" as the duration, if that helps.

JaronK

[McPoyo]

Where is spell stitching again?  Libris Mortis?

It's a template from Monster Manual II, pg 215. Requires that you be a corporeal undead, and needs a pretty high Wisdom to be worth it (at least 15 for animate dead, for instance).

It was reprinted in Complete Arcane, page 161.

[RobbyPants]

I ended up taking Tomb Tainted Soul, Law Devotion, and Weapon Finesse, allowed with a flaw (Weak Willed).

The flaw works well for the character's backstory, and I talked the DM into changing the prereqs for Weapon Finesse to Dex 13+, which helps with low level survivability, and makes assigning stats long term much easier, as I can trash Str and put the points int Dex.  Other than that, I'm getting used to some house rules involving two new ability scores: Luck and Mana.


I had fun with the first session, mostly due to RP reasons for the character.  The actual combats were almost certainly fudged as the DM threw me up against some nasty odds (surrounded by four goblins in one fight!).  Oh well.  That was more just to get the PC established, and I'm 2nd level now, so the DR should help with all of the goblin hunting I plan on doing.

Now it's time to find two skeletons to control!

[Benly]

So, my two cents' worth.

Spellstitching Animate Dead is a shenanigan I've never seen a DM let a player get away with. Before you put your hopes on it, check with your DM - he may just be more lenient than any DM I've ever played with.

That said, I personally like Pale Master as a way to get undead hordes on the cheap. Pale Master gets a bad rap, because the first level is admittedly every single kind of terrible. The thing is, the rest of the class is quite good (although you might want to stick to two levels so as not to cut into your massive horde if your DM rules that it's class-level bound) and, most importantly, DMs will accept it who would not accept spellstitching. A DM who disallows Pale Master is, let's face it, not going to allow free-undead shenanigans at all and honestly might not be thrilled with undead armies as a general rule - as always, ask first to avoid friction.