How to (ab)use Thrallherd for fun and profit?

[Amechra]

Heh, remember you can extend the benefit of temporal iteration to a friend...

Oh, and you have to get Binder in there somewhere. You know, for fast ability healing and the like.

I was thinking that you simply start of with an Elan, fusion a ton, go through the Ceremony of Crucimigration, becoming a Necropolitan, which, iirc keeps all Su abilities of the original form, and then, isn't there a graft that let's you count as a construct?

You might want monstrous humanoid, to nab Kobold.

[jojolagger]

I was thinking that you simply start of with an Elan, fusion a ton, go through the Ceremony of Crucimigration, becoming a Necropolitan, which, iirc keeps all Su abilities of the original form, and then, isn't there a graft that let's you count as a construct?

You might want monstrous humanoid, to nab Kobold.

We have solved the type problem. Just DCFS a feat to otherworldly for on each thing your going to fuse with. If you have the feat yourself, all problems are solved.

[Azrael]

and then, isn't there a graft that let's you count as a construct?

Sorta,

There's also a warforged graft in one of the Eberron books (faiths I think) called the wakeful mind. It only costs 14k, -2 hp, and a -2 on all knowledge checks but makes it so you never have to sleep. I used that one for a while until I discovered veil of undeath/stygian veil.

[Amechra]

Ahh, I missed out on the fixing of the problem.

So, what is Mr. Legion going to do? I assume Mr/Ms. OP won't be using this in his/her game, so...

I suggest we follow the wisdom of the the Brain.
Let's take over the world Cosmos everything.
This get's worse when you add in oozes.

Splitting and then fusing would be fun, I think.
 

Oh, and Aleax, don't forget the Aleax!

[jojolagger]

Splitting and then fusing would be fun, I think.

Split, DCFS lots of the feats on one of them, fuse, resulting in almost twice as many feats. Repeat as needed for every feat in the game. 

[veekie]

So, what is Mr. Legion going to do? I assume Mr/Ms. OP won't be using this in his/her game, so...

I suggest we follow the wisdom of the the Brain.
Let's take over the world Cosmos everything.
This get's worse when you add in oozes.

The world will not end in frost,
The world shall not end in fire,
Individuality have been lost,
In an orange goo mire.

[jojolagger]

So, what is Mr. Legion going to do? I assume Mr/Ms. OP won't be using this in his/her game, so...

I suggest we follow the wisdom of the the Brain.
Let's take over the world Cosmos everything.
This get's worse when you add in oozes.

The world will not end in frost,
The world shall not end in fire,
Individuality have been lost,
In an orange goo mire.

[CustosTheFluffy]

You know, it's characters like this that leave me conflicted. Even though I love sitting down to knock out the math and build a character that is Walking Death I can't help but feel a little sad cause I will never be able to use it in game, if only because the DM won't be able to keep up. Le-sigh. Oh well, back to stacking +1 to manifester levels to a psion 12/metamind 10 then pumping full or shards and using improved over channel to see just how retarded I can make a mind thrust. Mwuahahahah

[Felix Underwood]

Yes I am the DM, but many of the details of the world have already been settled. Becoming a god is the last thing this BBEG wants, the divine spark has programming forcing deities to fight against the Greller, which would wreck the BBEGs plans. This programming applies to all outsiders, not just deities.

I think in your second post, you mentioned killing some gods to make an example of them.  If you don't want to take over their worshipers to elevate yourself, you could still "liberate" their worshipers to weaken their position (ala, Clash of the Titans remake).  Still, the rules of divine power source are campaign specific, and may or may not apply to your game world.

-When you get attacked, you can lower the damage by 4/pp. You have infinite PP
-Get a +6 racial bonus to saving throws by spending 1 pp. Lasts a round. TI means that it's permanent
-Retain your psionic focus by spending 3 pp.

Sadly, it's a race with -2 on it's charisma, but you are freakin' tough to kill.
No one can damage you, you have a +6 on saves, you don't need to eat or drink, and whenever you expend your psionic focus, you get it back immediately.

Amechra, I love elans too, but I feel morally obligated to point a few things out.  (I apologize in advance if I’m mistaken on any of these):

-You are still limited in the number of PP you can spend per action based on your manifester level.  So at 20th ML, you could lower the damage by 80 HP.

- The Elan (SU) abilities Resilience and Resistance (and the feat Elan Retainment) are immediate actions.  You are still limited to one immediate action per round.

- Temporal Reiteration (TR) won’t work on Resistance.  You use your immediate action for Resistance, but it only lasts until the beginning of your next turn.  TR only makes “The past round” not count as time spent from the duration of ongoing effects.  But TR requires a swift action to cast on your round… after your turn began, and thus Resistance is already gone.

[jojolagger]

Amechra, I love elans too, but I feel morally obligated to point a few things out.  (I apologize in advance if I’m mistaken on any of these):

-You are still limited in the number of PP you can spend per action based on your manifester level.  So at 20th ML, you could lower the damage by 80 HP.

- The Elan (SU) abilities Resilience and Resistance (and the feat Elan Retainment) are immediate actions.  You are still limited to one immediate action per round.

- Temporal Reiteration (TR) won’t work on Resistance.  You use your immediate action for Resistance, but it only lasts until the beginning of your next turn.  TR only makes “The past round” not count as time spent from the duration of ongoing effects.  But TR requires a swift action to cast on your round… after your turn began, and thus Resistance is already gone.

Our ML is over 20. Dr 80 is still awesome.
The immediate action problem has already been brought up.
We have infinite PP, so we can just Resistance each round.

[Felix Underwood]

Ah, I missed the post where Amechra points it out... but is there still no fix?

If you use Resistance each round, that sucks up your immediate action.  You'd have to chose between Resilience or Resistance.

It's still not DR80.... DR is always on.  This would be more like DR80 vs only one attack.  I'd expect a powerhouse like this to need to deal with a few thousand attacks per round.

[Amechra]

Damn.
Ah well, the lack of a need to eat or drink is nice.
Eh, Warforged or Necropolitan are probably better choices at this point anyway.
As I said earlier though, isn't there a way to get more immediate actions?

[snakeman830]

That and using either ability (or any other Immediate action) eats your Swift action for your next turn, so using either one would mean that you can't use Temporal Reiteration on your next turn.

[jojolagger]

That and using either ability (or any other Immediate action) eats your Swift action for your next turn, so using either one would mean that you can't use Temporal Reiteration on your next turn.

Schism does temporal reiteration.

[snakeman830]

That and using either ability (or any other Immediate action) eats your Swift action for your next turn, so using either one would mean that you can't use Temporal Reiteration on your next turn.

Schism does temporal reiteration.

Can't.  Schism is limited to one, mental, standard action each round.  Temporal Reiteration is a Swift action.  You cannot, RAW, use a standard for a Swift.

[jojolagger]

That and using either ability (or any other Immediate action) eats your Swift action for your next turn, so using either one would mean that you can't use Temporal Reiteration on your next turn.

Schism does temporal reiteration.

Can't.  Schism is limited to one, mental, standard action each round.  Temporal Reiteration is a Swift action.  You cannot, RAW, use a standard for a Swift.

That is stupid. I hate WotC (and by extension Hasbro)

[Catty Nebulart]

So, what is Mr. Legion going to do? I assume Mr/Ms. OP won't be using this in his/her game, so...

Yeah it's a little much for the baseline plan, but I will keep it in mind for plan B. This thread has given me all kinds of evil ideas too spring on the players though.

[Felix Underwood]

You cannot, RAW, use a standard for a Swift.

I disagree.  

I can see where you are comming from, but I believe that outlook only takes into consideration the rules for swift actions (like the typical block found at the bottom of page 86 of Complete Arcane, and other similar suppliments).

"A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action."

If we used the rules for standard actions from page 138 of the PHB, I think it would be reasonable to allow using a power or spell that only takes a swift action to use, as a standard action.

"Standard Action:  A standard action allows you to do something.  The most common type of standard action is an attack - a single melee or ranged attack.  Other common standard actions include casting a spell, concentrating to maintain an active spell, activating a magic item, and using a special ability.  See Table 8-2: Actions in Combat for other standard actions."

The time alloted for a standard action can be used to do pretty much anything... picking your nose, picking your friends.... but most certainly not picking your friend's nose  (that's a special grapple action).

In PHB time (pre-swift era), the next fastest type of action is a Free Action.

"Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort, and over the span of the round, their impact is so minor that they are considered free."

When they introduced Swift actions, they never revisited the definition of Standard Actions.  But I think it is reasonable to say:  I want to use my standard action to do something... and that something is an action that consumes a very small amount of time.

[jojolagger]

You cannot, RAW, use a standard for a Swift.

I disagree.  

I can see where you are comming from, but I believe that outlook only takes into consideration the rules for swift actions (like the typical block found at the bottom of page 86 of Complete Arcane, and other similar suppliments).

"A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action."

If we used the rules for standard actions from page 138 of the PHB, I think it would be reasonable to allow using a power or spell that only takes a swift action to use, as a standard action.

"Standard Action:  A standard action allows you to do something.  The most common type of standard action is an attack - a single melee or ranged attack.  Other common standard actions include casting a spell, concentrating to maintain an active spell, activating a magic item, and using a special ability.  See Table 8-2: Actions in Combat for other standard actions."

The time alloted for a standard action can be used to do pretty much anything... picking your nose, picking your friends.... but most certainly not picking your friend's nose  (that's a special grapple action).

In PHB time (pre-swift era), the next fastest type of action is a Free Action.

"Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort, and over the span of the round, their impact is so minor that they are considered free."

When they introduced Swift actions, they never revisited the definition of Standard Actions.  But I think it is reasonable to say:  I want to use my standard action to do something... and that something is an action that consumes a very small amount of time.

   While your right you should be able to use the actions, If you follow strict Raw (most don't) you can't use swift as a standard.

[snakeman830]

And you can't use a standard as a swift.

The primary confusion, from what I can tell, comes from the Master of Shadows PrC in Tome of Magic.  They start out being able to use Master's Bidding as a move action and it later gets upgraded to a Swift, but you can still use it as a move action if you so desire.

So, while I agree that you should be able to use a standard action to deliver a swift, by the rules, you cannot.