hopper_d
Monkey bussiness
Posts: 8
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« on: June 16, 2010, 12:15:54 PM » |
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I'm looking for something unexpected. I'm thinking about the 7th lvl any spell feature. I'm allowed any 3.5 non setting book, greyhawk books, minus Book of Exalted Deeds and Tomb of Battle.
We're playing age of worms campaign, and my character a 7/10 cleric/ radiant servant of pelor (I am NOT using the DMM persist cheese) has been consistently nerfed for the betterment of my dm's game. Gone is my ability to outright destroy every undead BBEG. He is refusing to adjust the written adventure paths to account for the higher level of game we're bringing. We just finished the boneyard fight at the end of the druid fight, and all I did the 6 rounds of combat was buff everyone with aoe spells. The only damage taken on our side was our scaled one type chain fighter using vicious on himself while single handed killing 15-18 kyuss spawn greatsword/negative energy attack fighters. When boneyard came out; our malconvoker summoned 2 collosal fiendish centipedes just to keep the boneyard away from us. I then pelted him with a maximized bolt of glory, and along with the archer we got it down to 4 hps the round I finally used a greater turn. By RAW, I could have effected a 42HD creature (thus the whining about no longer stacking untyped different source turn levels)
I am capped at 1 item, 1 spell, and just my level for turning. Rod of Defiance can no longer put undead at negative turn resistance. So best HD I got now is (with a guaranteed +4 check bump) is 21+4 (Phylactery of Undead killin) +5 (Light of Wisdom spell errated to have a +5 max limit). That's 30 HD with a possibility of reducing an undead badguy's resistance to 0. Gone are my 4 other untyped different source items that gave effective turn lvls. This will go to max 33hd by end game. I obviously will not be able to outright destroy Dragotha, Leshonna, or Kyuss anymore. This is all fine and dandy, I have many options to burst damage undead, and have personally bankrolled myself and two other fighter type pcs to get greater true death crystals.
When I started using spells from Complete Champion to buff my AC out the window (all legal) he started to threaten and whine. So, now next campaign that book is no longer usable. My DM has ruled that the RSOP Supreme Healing feature works with all healing spells, not RAW whereas it's only the +1 domain slot spell. Therefore healing during battle is not an issue.
So with all this said, what's the best way for me to get the Gate and miracle spell banned next?
Would like specific creature ideas on the gate, and spell ideas for both self buffing, debuffing, blasting, and wholesome undead killin. Thanks in advance!
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hopper_d
Monkey bussiness
Posts: 8
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2010, 07:13:57 PM » |
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I know about Giant Size from Wu Jen 7. A fixed 1 minute duration ain't all that great. Question, can I use my Divine Spell Power feat on it, I'm two CLs away from colossal, and that would fix it.
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 11:17:00 PM » |
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Dude, Gate is so easy to break it is a joke. You can gate in something up to 2x your caster level in hit dice. It can literally be anything, as long as it is below that restriction. So buff your caster level, and call an Elder Titan. They cast as 21st level clerics, and have the Epic Spellcasting feat. Buff your caster level enough before hand to call one with double hit dice, then use Miracle to make a Similacrum out of it. Hell, even just a half-celestial great wyrm gold dragon is enough to destroy most games. You can also call several abominations, and the epic dragons.Or just slap the pseudonatural and/or paragon templates on something that's already nasty. |
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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hopper_d
Monkey bussiness
Posts: 8
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 04:06:42 AM » |
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yeah, but it has to be extraplanar. I know a 'huge solar' would be nasty, and probably wouldn't bring a nerf bat. The eldar titan is 60ish HD and I can't get my CL that high. A normal titan I could do. The problem with Gate is it has to be extraplanar. I know I could slap for example a half-celestial template onto a creature, I just don't know how to extrapolate that in stat blocks. I'm thinking of a force or prismatic dragon (young and juvenille). Is there a template to make things that aren't extraplanar (magical beasts, aberations, etc) into extraplanar subtype without adding HD or LA?
Also am I reading correctly, if I want to bring in more than one creature, the 'total hd of all creatures can not exceed my CL' correct? That's a little weak compared to bringing in 1 CLx2 HD creature.
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Littha
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 05:00:22 AM » |
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You can also call an archfiend if you buff your CL up...
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hopper_d
Monkey bussiness
Posts: 8
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 05:06:08 AM » |
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I'm fairly certain my DM wouldn't let me call evil creatures. I'm playing a NG Radiant Servant of Pelor/Cleric.
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 06:33:56 PM » |
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The eldar titan is 60ish HD and I can't get my CL that high.
Yeah... it's easier if you're evil. Consumptive Field + Death Knell + a Karma bead alone boosts it by quite a lot. |
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 12:26:13 AM » |
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Have you tried Gating your DM there?
Ok, bad inside joke aside, the Elder Titan is probably the best way to go (as they can Gate in another Elder Titan). Here's a breakdown:
Round 1: Cast Gate. Command the Elder Titan to summon another Elder Titan and then have him go into combat.
Round 2: Tell the 2nd Elder Titan to summon a third, then move into battle.
Round 3: As round 2. Repeat into absurdity.
Round X: Before the first summon wears off, order the first Titan to teleport and then immediately forget that you used Gate to have it fight for you. It ports off, promptly forgets, and realizes he's on the Material Plane and possibly bruised. He returns to where ever he came from, and fast healing takes care of your problems. Repeat for each Titan.
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hopper_d
Monkey bussiness
Posts: 8
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 01:35:03 AM » |
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character's base CL is 17. with divine spell power feat I can get to 21 with a turn use. With a bead of karma I can get to 25 in a real hairy fight. This means the max I can control would be 50HD of a creature, but in reality real max would be 42. I 'can not' summon in an Elder Titan and still expect it to not turn around and kill all of us or just go home..
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veekie
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2010, 06:29:01 AM » |
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The trick is to summon deadly creature X and then pop off until the fight is done.
Preferably contingently so it doesn't attempt to smoosh you.
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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hopper_d
Monkey bussiness
Posts: 8
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2010, 06:32:23 AM » |
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sure, that'd be ubber damn cool; but knowing my DM, he'd use the whole uncontrolable creature is allowed to leave at any time, and just make me waste the 1000 xp.   Can a collosus creature fit through the max size 20ft gate? |
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2010, 03:49:49 PM » |
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character's base CL is 17. with divine spell power feat I can get to 21 with a turn use. With a bead of karma I can get to 25 in a real hairy fight. This means the max I can control would be 50HD of a creature, but in reality real max would be 42. I 'can not' summon in an Elder Titan and still expect it to not turn around and kill all of us or just go home..
You can do what Sinfire is suggesting with just the normal titan. You don't need an elder one. |
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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veekie
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 04:21:24 PM » |
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character's base CL is 17. with divine spell power feat I can get to 21 with a turn use. With a bead of karma I can get to 25 in a real hairy fight. This means the max I can control would be 50HD of a creature, but in reality real max would be 42. I 'can not' summon in an Elder Titan and still expect it to not turn around and kill all of us or just go home..
You can do what Sinfire is suggesting with just the normal titan. You don't need an elder one. Except for the warm fuzzy feeling of an extra stompy Gating. |
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Senevri
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2010, 09:57:50 AM » |
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sure, that'd be ubber damn cool; but knowing my DM, he'd use the whole uncontrolable creature is allowed to leave at any time, and just make me waste the 1000 xp. No. Read the spell description again: The called creature is your sock puppet for 1 round per caster level, in the immediate task option. Only creatures outside your CL range are uncontrolled. |
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I keep forgetting my threads... |
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AngellusMortus
Ring-Tailed Lemur
Posts: 65
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2010, 04:36:43 PM » |
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To reiterate what Phaedrus said, Gate is just laughably easy to make game-shattering. Just a few specific examples (using the Abominations from the ELH):
Dream Larva. 40HD. Every creature that sees it for the first time has to make a DC43 Will Save or die.
Infernal. 36HD. Crazy SLAs, including Hellball (Epic), and the ability to suck spells out of casters by nomming them.
Boost your CL by one more, and you get:
Hecatoncheires. 52HD. Has 100 attacks per round. Yes, it's a Challenge Rating 57. Yes, you can still control it.
Is your DM crying yet?
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Amechra
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 06:18:09 PM » |
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1. Gate a Hecatoncheires. 2. Find some way to get Hunter's Eye on him (heck, just use swarm looping if you want your DM to cry.) 3.  4. Profit! |
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Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn." Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn." Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn." Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me." On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me. probably over on "Off-topic". might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post. This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu". |
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NeverGetDrunkButStaySober
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2010, 02:44:47 PM » |
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To reiterate what Phaedrus said, Gate is just laughably easy to make game-shattering. Just a few specific examples (using the Abominations from the ELH):
Dream Larva. 40HD. Every creature that sees it for the first time has to make a DC43 Will Save or die.
Infernal. 36HD. Crazy SLAs, including Hellball (Epic), and the ability to suck spells out of casters by nomming them.
Boost your CL by one more, and you get:
Hecatoncheires. 52HD. Has 100 attacks per round. Yes, it's a Challenge Rating 57. Yes, you can still control it.
Is your DM crying yet? All Abominations have Divine Rank 0, which prevents them from being pulled through. You could try to convince one to serve you anyway, but they're also immune to mind-affecting abilities. Better to grab an epic dragon (maybe even a Time Dragon). |
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Aharon
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2010, 12:06:33 PM » |
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And there I thought I was the only one who had read the Dragon issue with the ridiculous Time Dragon  |
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By clicking this link, you open a pop-up, but I get a eurocent for my current wish, the 5th book of the Wheel of Time series. Please note that this only works if you leave the pop-up opened till it has finished loading. Thank you! |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2010, 08:36:29 AM » |
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With time dragons there's the risk that they'll gain an age category half-way through the battle and turn on you.
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Echoes
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2010, 12:56:08 AM » |
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Gate only checks your CL vs. their HD when you cast the spell. After that, your CL can drop and they'll stay, because it's an instantaneous effect which has already occurred. So yes, you can easily snag an Elder titan, or a [template] great wyrm dragon of some stripe. Remember that monsters don't care about LA. As for how to adjudicate the stat blocks, just follow the entry for creating that creature, using whatever you want as the base.
Ha-Nagas and elder titans are pretty spiffy, but there's something cool about grabbing a solar and it gating in a solar which gates in a solar ... etc until you have an infinite army of solars at your command.
Angel Summoner, indeed.
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