Time For a New Character. I've Been Dreading This for Months. *EDIT*

[kevin_video]

But you said no main book classes didn't you, so wizard is out. :\

Huh? Oh no. That says ONLY main books. This means no d20 third party like paizo or dreamscarred or anyone like that. So wizard is in.

I really don't think I can avoid the template add-ons other than them being forced. So long as I'm not coup-de-graced and we actually have a regular cleric (right now my ranger is the cleric), I might be okay. This campaign so far I've gained two templates (1 half dragon, 1 half water elemental) and lost the fast healing from my relic armour. So I've been killed and finished off three times. My character's been clinically dead about 12 times so far. Hell, he's died at least once a session for the past month or so. The guys we fight now average 400+ damage a round on each of us.

To be honest, our warblade is ECL 20 (going to be 21 real soon) and he's only got 13 HD. Only 11 of those are warblade.


BTW, @ Havok4 are you SURE about the whole binder thing? Even with that many LAs? I don't know. Looking at it, it kind of looked a little sketchy.

[kevin_video]

Given my options, anyone know of a decently optimized build that we could go for? I'm wondering if even a psion could somehow work, but if I've got the phrenic creature, and someone thinks that's good enough by itself, that's okay too.

The main issue I'm having is the base race. Mostly because the kid's going to be born really soon. I'm actually the first person who has to figure out what they want to play. I'm also the only one with such a ridiculous number of options too.

[Hallack]

All the templates aside, initially you start as a 'regular' character yes?  At what level will the new campaign start?

Do you have access to LA buyoff?

Seems what we need to find for you is...

• A character with a fair margin of being able to avoid death templates.  Staying alive.
• A character that is not hurt as bad by them are is even able to take advantage
• Other?

[kevin_video]

As said in the OP, there is no LA buyoff. That's because the templates are not forced on you all at once. Especially since it's very VERY easy for you to get more as the campaign continues on. Right now I'm looking at probably LA +11, and there's still tons of room more for the DM to add more to us.

The campaign will start off with all of us at level 1.

[Prime32]

Well, as I said, abilities based on character level rather than class level are preferable.

Any chance you can get Tome material approved? If you can, go with Conduit of the Lower Planes. The rules in Races of War would also reduce LAs.

[kevin_video]

Any chance you can get Tome material approved?

Depends on what Tome you're talking about, and I don't know Races of War.

[Havok4]

Binder is nice generally because with one feat you can be ahead of what is the normal vestige progression and most of the vestiges are quite good even at a low EBL. Like picking up Andras after 5 levels of binder to get a nice all day smite attack.

[kevin_video]

Binder is nice generally because with one feat you can be ahead of what is the normal vestige progression and most of the vestiges are quite good even at a low EBL. Like picking up Andras after 5 levels of binder to get a nice all day smite attack.

Andras is the name of the feat?

[Havok4]

No, improved binding is the feat that lets you pick up vestiges at earlier levels and Andras is a vestige which gives you paladin like abilities. Really if you can just get 11 levels of binder you can pick up the best vestige ever Zceryll.

[kevin_video]

Hmm. Getting 11 levels sounds moderately plausible. If there's a handbook for one, I wouldn't mind looking it over to see what I could do. Now, what about a base race?

[Havok4]

Here and here are two versions of the most largest handbook.

[kevin_video]

Here and here are two versions of the most largest handbook.

Thanks for this. So if binder is apparently the way to go, what race would be best? Human? These are the listed ones:

Humans are always a good choice with the extra feat, and with the extra skill points you can afford to roll with a lower Int.  My favorite choice.

Elves get longsword and shortsword proficiency, and the weapon focus with a shortsword is great at 3rd level when you can bind Paimon.  The Con penalty hurts.  Star  Elves are better than normal elves.  Auto-search becomes useful when you can bind Ashardolon at high level, or if you get +Search magic items.

Half-elves receive special mention, because they can get ridiculously high diplomacy checks if they dip Marshall.

Spellscale make decent Binders, but the “ritual” benefits won’t help at all.

Dragonborn Spellscale Binders get +2 Cha for -2 Dex, and can get flying, which a Binder can only do through one vestige or magic items.  You could also take the breath weapon, which, although weak, does allow you to qualify for breath weapon feats that you can apply to Amon’s fire breath.

I can be any of these.

[Havok4]

I would go with human, that way you get your bonus feat which will be extra useful given all of the HD you will be missing due to your random templating.

[kevin_video]

True.

[kevin_video]

So how do I want to build this?

32 pt buy for stats

STR 14 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 10 CHA 15

Lvl 1: BAB +0, Fort/Will +2, Ref +0, 8 HP, Soul binding (1 vestige ), Vestige Level 1
Skills: 3(2+1)x4=12 +4 (human) =16 - Bluff +4, Concentration +1, Diplomacy +3, Gather Information +1, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (Religion) +1, Sense Motive +3
Bonus language (INT 12): Giant

Equipment: Studded leather, morningstar, dagger, light crossbow.

As for anything else, I'm really not sure what I want to do. I don't see myself being the tank this time around.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

So, has your crazy template DM ever considered running gestalt? Like with one side being a real build and the other being LA and Racial HD for your constantly morphing characters? That would make for a pretty cool game.

[kevin_video]

He finds gestalts broken. But then again, he finds all spells that bring you back to life (short of clone), and Polymorph/Wild Shape, as well as Vow of Poverty broken. He also doesn't allow some Greater spells like Greater Teleport.

[Hallack]

He finds gestalts broken. But then again, he finds all spells that bring you back to life (short of clone), and Polymorph/Wild Shape, as well as Vow of Poverty broken. He also doesn't allow some Greater spells like Greater Teleport.

  Thanks for the morning chuckle

[McPoyo]

I think we need to get kevin_video a special title concerning his DMs. I swear...

[Havok4]

I think we need to get kevin_video a special title concerning his DMs. I swear...

He deserves some recognition for having the worst gaming luck in the known universe.

Also your first level feat has to be improved binding. It lets you bind second level vestiges at level 1. A good first level vestige would be Dahlver-Nar for first level survivability or Savnok who gives you full plate armor at level 1, Malphas is good if you want to do scouting for your party.