OOC discussion

[Brainpiercing]

@Sohala: hey, you made the Fort save and did not get torn to pieces (yet?). Not so bad in my book.
(I dread the day when we encounter Aboleths with DC 28 Enslave.)

Unfun abilities are unfun... I'm pretty certain I will never try to take over your characters.... outside of a short stint, maybe, during which they will run about naked and sing Halleluya...

@BP: this discussion about future levels got me thinking and looking at the rules for this game.
I noticed this:

Everybody gains 12 bonus HP at lvl 1, and one bonus feat from a limited list of feats that give small numerical bonuses and don't scale. It's best to ask about this.

which I'm pretty sure Mael didn't get. Is it valid for this campaign?

Umm... of course, I made a post about it in the ooc, maybe you missed it. You most definitely do get those things. NPCs and monsters get them, too. (Although I'm sometimes too lazy to give them the bonus feat, but the HP they get.)

[Omen of Peace]

Well, that certainly helps low-on-HPs Mael. What's the limited list of feats? The +2/+2 to skills ones? Since Skill Focus now scales I suppose it's out.

[Brainpiercing]

Well, that certainly helps low-on-HPs Mael. What's the limited list of feats? The +2/+2 to skills ones? Since Skill Focus now scales I suppose it's out.

A +2/+2, a fixed + to saves, a proficiency (since that technically removes a -4 penalty, IIRC), or something similar. A crummy 1/day non-awesome ability might be possible, too. So... if you have a particular wish, ask me, because I might be more generous if I know that it's a prereq for something much more important.

Basically the idea was making it easy to get the crappy prereqs for some otherwise hard to enter prestige classes.

[Sohala]

@Sohala: hey, you made the Fort save and did not get torn to pieces (yet?). Not so bad in my book.
(I dread the day when we encounter Aboleths with DC 28 Enslave.)

Torn to pieces...is that ment to be killed or beat up? Cause I got beat up...still working on recouping too.

It would pretty bad right now...only 25% chance of passing one of those.

Speaking of +hit...anyone care to pool cash for an item of greater magic weapon? 40500 (28350 assuming I slap an alingment restictions on it) for level 20, unlimited casting. I can craft it next level assuming I have the cash.

You can bull rush as part of a charge, which is by definition a move action, allowing you to move up to double your regular movement allowance and make a single attack at the end.

I think you have a few things wrong...charging, at the very least, is standard action, which can only be used as such if you are restricted to only a standard or single action, such as a zombie or a surprise round.

[Omen of Peace]

It would pretty bad right now...only 25% chance of passing one of those.

Well, that's not so bad: it means even your Will save is higher than Mael's! (As a bard he does not benefit that much from multiclassing, so that's one big source for saves he doesn't get.)

Of course when I made him I had a very different vision of this campaign so I didn't bother much with survivability... This is certainly going to change.

I'm afraid Mael is not very interested in GMW.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Yeah, I've learned a lot about this game and DnD in general since I made Marc and I would have made different choices if I knew then what I know now.  My next character should be a bit better though, once I bring him in.

Also...we're not really much of a cohesive team right now which is causing us to suffer.

[Brainpiercing]

For a non-cohesive team of not completely optimised characters, you do kick a fair amount of ass. Just think if this had been a standard D&D team of Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Mage. An investment into diamond dust would have had to have been standard... (Granted, this is also a larger party. By action advantage alone you should beat these demons.)

This reminds me: There is a cleric spell that, when cast one round after death, revives a target with 1/2 HP for a certain number of rounds, after which it dies again. Does any of you by any chance remember the name of said spell, or where to find it?

[Omen of Peace]

Revenance (SC)

[Brainpiercing]

Ah, thank you.

Ok, here's the deal: I don't want anyone to die. So your goal must be to end the fight without involving Devanar, who will try to save everyone. But if he joins, it will cost you a certain amount of XP (simply for another combatant) which I'm sure you would much rather get your grubby mitts on. So let's do it like Diablo - you die, you lose money and XP (effectively). Nice and simple, eh?

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Huh?

What are you talking about BP? I am working on ending the fight...its just that right now I am slogging my way through the action economy...

[Sohala]

Huh?

What are you talking about BP?

I think he is trying to figure out a way so we don't add to the the party size for this encounter...but he lost me slightly on the last sentance or two. I get the idea, but not the application. Will it be a full reset, half, dead until a certain action takes place, after combat is ended you get to stand up?

I am working on ending the fight...its just that right now I am slogging my way through the action economy...

Will you be taking the move action from your pellet blast round?

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Well I was going to bull rush the Vrock, but now it seems like Mael is controlling it.

To be honest I'm not quite sure what to do.  I was going to take BPs suggestion and tempest-knock them prone.

[Omen of Peace]

Technically the Marc just know he seems friendlier. He can still attack him, or there are still two other Vrocks, one of them threatening squishy, stunned Mael (yep, I'm the one giving very unsubtle OOC hints ).


I think the deal is that if one of us dies Devanar steps in to revive him (one way or another) but then we have less XP (Devanar's share) and less gold (the Revivify component, presumably?).

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Well yes IC Marc only knows that, but OOC we have you typing for a Vrock rather than BP, and you've been giving away a fair amount of information about Mael anyways, if nothing else than by the large percentage of your and BPs posts being marked private. That and BP mentioned something to me in a PM about a PC being evil, which I can safely assume is Mael (maelfactor...)  Personally I prefer private things to be done via PM though I realize that PM box limits can hinder this.  Mythweavers has a great system where you can make things truly private for one playe or the DM within the IC thread.

In any case, if Marc attacks them, then maybe they won't stand down.  I dunno...this whole battle has felt very awkward to me as a player.  I'd much prefer to get through it and retire Marc, and then work together with you guys OOC and IC to create something with more focus and direction.

As for xp, I'm not too concerned about it, considering BP has said the EL is way higher than us, it should be a pretty penny's worth...hopefully enough to level up even (lord knows it would be about friggin time. )

As it stands, I think Marc will stay where it is, and grapple the Vrock like he was going to , unless you guys really think I should use my tempest blast to knock everything down.  (BPs ruling on whether or not my Endure Exposure Invocation (which I have yet to explicitly grant the party, due to the ambiguous nature of our association), would apply to the tempest effect as well..in which case the Vrocks get knocked down while the rest of you caught in it are sent sprawling away...

As for what comes next, I plan on bringing in an Exalted demon/aberration hunter...which means we may need to get clear on purpose and alignment.  I know BP originally said we don't have to be in the same party but I for one want more than a solo adventure.

I almost wish this game weren't so PvP style secret.  Where all our sheets and info are public at least OOC so we can effectively plan our party, create relationships and have things go overall smoother. It really is hard for me to just join a party "because they are the player characters", especially when we meet each other at random and with no good reason to trust each other from Adam.  That at least one of the PCs is a sneaky bastard makes me feel squeamish as a player.  I don't really enjoy playing truly villainous characters or evil games.  They tend to just be rather unfun for me.  But like I said that's my own preference.

[Brainpiercing]

Omen got it right. I'm not trying to diminish your contributions, I'm trying to find a transparent way of dealing with PC death - and encourage teamwork, even in an inhomogeneous team. That shouldn't suggest that you haven't been teamworking enough, before.

@Thistle: There's private and really private. Basically the spoilers are there so that Omen can have fun with this special character. But he doesn't have a special position. So it's up to you whether you respect the claim of privacy or not.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Well there's teamwork and then there's real teamwork... 

[Omen of Peace]

- Apologies for all the spoilering - I didn't expect there'd be quite so much of it. But really their main use is separating IC from OOC knowledge, like BP said.

- Especially now that it's pretty much in the open I don't mind giving out more info about build & stuff - ask away, here or by PM.
I don't see it as a problem either that not all motivations align, but I'm willing to answer on that topic as well.

On the other hand, I don't see any PvP going on... The only instance where we approached it was when the Marc faced off the heap of rocks, and I backed off. If you want to be in a pure, heroic party, I'm sure something can/will be arranged. I'd object to "sneaky bastard" but I think we simply won't see eye-to-eye. 

- The word play on Mael is fun, but I actually lifted the name from a character in a book.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Oh, perhaps text has changed the flavor of my intent.  I didn't mean to imply PvP was happening (though that first encounter did make me wary).  As for sneaky bastard, again, sorry if that came off as an insult...it really wasn't meant to be.  I suppose its the idea of being manipulated by evil beings that rubs me the wrong way...which can be a form of PvP.  One of my longtime gaming friends has the annoying habit when playing and DMing of trying to corrupt all of my good characters...and sometimes he is sneaky enough that he does before I realize it. 

So, I tend to be on my guard.  As for pure and heroic, it's my general preference, from which I do occasionally depart (witness my chaotic neutral hoity-toity elven noble-turned-mercenary...).  Marc is actually neutral, though my sentiments on the character concept as well as design choices and familiarity with the game, both in setting, tone, and mechanics has improved greatly since I made it. 

The new character I hope to bring in however is firmly neutral good, and Exalted for good measure, and if I can play that well enough, someday far far down the line I'll take the Saint Template.  I figure best to be upfront about those kind of intentions now since I've witnessed first hand how Exalted characters can disrupt a group.  I played in a Ravenloft game with another PC Monk with Vow of Peace and it did nothing but cause conflict (along with the Vixen that charmed every PC and NPC she met).  No one likes to lose control of their characters for whatever reason.

Any objections to bringing in a (badass) do-gooder?

[Brainpiercing]

One more thing:

Thistle: It seems like you want to have these things out in the open, so that you can roleplay a relationship between characters, because you KNOW ooc that it's there. But my goal would be to have these actually form, in game. That's why I made the campfire thread, so that people can do all that ooc stuff in character.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

I get that BP, but in my humble experience, sometimes that works but often it backfires. The Ravenloft game I mentioned is the perfect example. We all made our characters with zero ooc discussion between players and when the caracters met they were so incompatible that they clashed from the beginning both IC and btween disgruntled players. It got off to such a bad start that it totally ruined the mood and fun for me and several others.

Conversely I've witnessed some of the best games form around DMs who actually make characters start as a team with by interweaving various background threads together for a shared history.  Not that we have to do that here, but most often what I've seen work is the middle ground, where the characters haven't met, but the players at least check in with each other beforehand.  I think its in the BoED where it talks about how this is especialy true with exalted/vile characters. For example if one player is a paladin and an other an evil rogue, it *might* work but the players are going to have to enjoy clashing ALL the time, and this might grow tiresome to one or more players. This is what killed the Ravenloft game, with one vow of peace and one charming vixen that ironically created a ton of unfun conflict and less than charming bickering.

I'm used to more cooperative troupe style play, again ooc, where there is at least some discussion betwwen players...sometimes even to set up antagonistic relationships. Again this is just my experience talking. I need some hook or reason, even if ooc to know that my character is going to mesh with the team...