Sci-fi/Fantasy game-Banning Core Experiment

[Hand_of_Vecna]

So, I’m starting a new game soon, I don’t have a lot planned but I know the feel I want. It’s going to be a sci-fi/fantasy game. Hi-tech/High Psionics with no magic but, there will be ancient tech that will function similarly to magic including needing checks with a skill like UMD (though probably running off Int). The world will be similar to one presented in numerous animes with people living in large high-tech cities and back water villages with hundreds of miles of wilderness between settlements. This combined with ruins full of ancient technology should present a lot of the feel of a standard fantasy world.

I also want vehicles for long distance travel to be part of the game as well as eventually introducing teleporters that only work between set locations and having them be a big deal so I’ll be banning Psionic Teleport and similar effects. So this got me thinking that since I’m getting close anyway that this would be the perfect time to experiment with banning the core entirely. This should go over fine since one of my players who is playing a non-caster loves ToB and the other loves skill monkey/tanks and anime flavor so swordsage should be an easy sell.

So should I ban core feats too? Shutting down a lot of the semi-broken one trick ponies of melee while also getting people out of a lot of traps. I’d at least have to make an exception for two-weapon fighting though maybe I’ll make the whole chain one feat. If I eliminate the various improved feats I’ll take the provokes AoO off the maneuver’s hopefully this will add variety to combat while eliminating characters that focus on a maneuver to the point of absurdity.

I figure I’ll create one or more affiliations that grant trap finding as a low level benefit to fill that void.

Will a lack of access to classic feat chains be crippling for martial characters? Remember with no Core and no magic this leaves only slightly nerfed tier 2 casters Psion, Wilder and Ardent and Solid Tier 3’s Swordsage, Warblade, Crusader and PsiWarrior oh and there’s also PsiThief and Marshall at Tier 4 and Lurk wherever they fit; they look like a solid tier

I’ll also be giving non-casters a slight boost with tech versions of a lot of low level weapon and armor enchantments at cheaper prices.

So, should I truly ban core, or just it’s classes and spell effects?

[weenog]

Banning core entirely?  Good luck functioning with no skills, and even most of your feats unavailable due to missing prerequisites.

[Endarire]

If you ban core spells, the game can still function.  Ban feats, skills, and items, and everyone in your world will be naked.  Maybe.

[weenog]

Everyone in the world naked, you say?  This sounds like a job for a custom researched partial Enlarge Person spell.

[Maat_Mons]

You should probably keep weapon finesse around.  Alternately, make the ability to use dex with appropriate weapons automatic. 

I'm sure there are enough races outside core. 

The Dungeon Master's guide is core.  If you ban magic items, it significantly alters game balance. 

Banning normal weapons might be alright if you add in sci-fi weapons. 

You will probably need to rework some prerequisites. 

As weenog said, banning skills would be a big issue. 

[Bozwevial]

Depends. Are you barring anything that refers back to core abilities, like Psionic Invisibility?

[Maat_Mons]

Everyone in the world naked, you say?  This sounds like a job for a custom researched partial Enlarge Person spell.

No such luck.  Frostburn lists a fur clothing and winter fullcloth and Sandstorm lists desert outfit, heatsuit outfit, and hydration suit. 

[Bozwevial]

Everyone in the world naked, you say?  This sounds like a job for a custom researched partial Enlarge Person spell.

No such luck.  Frostburn lists a fur clothing and winter fullcloth and Sandstorm lists desert outfit, heatsuit outfit, and hydration suit. 

Both of which assume climate extremes.

[deuxhero]

I'd keep feats (if only because every other feat/PRC/whatever out of core uses them) mundane item and basic magic items (+x equipment, boosts to ability scores and saves, ect) and skills. Banning classes and non-standard magic items could be intresting, as would all but the most basic core spells (obviously heals, animal buffs, the stuff on the spell lists of the focused casters should stay). Otherwise the idea may be interesting.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I of course meant banning core classes and spells are a given as it is a 0 magic setting.

I'm debating what psionics to exclude (teleport spells are a given).

Making finesse weapons have a dex to hit option is a good idea.

I'm considering banning core feats because, they are prereqs to many other feats. The idea was to abolish the popular and often broken feat intensive builds. IMO banning Power Attack is better than banning Shocktrooper because without Shocktrooper Power Attack is a shite feat but, someone may still want to take it. Banning PA kills two birds with one stone. The only question for me is whether ToB characters and PsiWarriors need typical CO feat selections to hang with slightly nerfed psychics.

Obviously I'm not talking about banning the skills any more than I'm talking about banning the rules. If I did I'd just be running Amber with characters inspired by non core fluff.

Banning Core (rather than just magic, which my world demands) is largely an experiment based on testing the basic CO assumption that Core is the worst balanced portion of 3.5 and that eliminating it would create a much smoother more balanced game.

[Bozwevial]

I wouldn't exclude any psionics unless they don't mesh well with your campaign (i.e. long range teleporting, Genesis, what have you).

[Maat_Mons]

Everyone in the world naked, you say?  This sounds like a job for a custom researched partial Enlarge Person spell.

No such luck.  Frostburn lists a fur clothing and winter fullcloth and Sandstorm lists desert outfit, heatsuit outfit, and hydration suit. 

Both of which assume climate extremes.

You figure they'd be too uncomfortable to wear?  I've located a few more in Races of Stone: earthsilk jersey, gnome battle cloak, and gnome twist cloth.  Of course, if 3.0 material is allowed, Arms and Equipment Guide has a bunch of clothes. 

[Surreal]

Factotum with FoI for every feat?

[Arz]

If you ban core and are pushing skills in a sci-fi game why aren't you looking at another system altogether? Traveler was an fav of mine.

[carnivore]

have you ever thought of D20 Modern .... found here:

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/modern/smack/srdhome.html

everything you need .... keeping the skills and feats needed to allow gameplay

 

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Hey, i didn't realize d20 modern core had an SRD. I'm bookmarking that for later. The only thing keeping me from using d20 Mod is that i wanted near full powered psionics rather than the psionics is a PrC that's easy to qualify for at lvl 4. That and that the world i have in my head feels more like D&D with sci-fi trappings to me.

[Negative Zero]

So, what exactly are you banning from Core? Skills? Bonus spells? I think the most balanced option would be banning the classes and spells alone - the rest should be mostly okay.

[Solo]

No such luck.  Frostburn lists a fur clothing and winter fullcloth and Sandstorm lists desert outfit, heatsuit outfit, and hydration suit. 

Both of which assume climate extremes.

There's always the gimp suit. BoEF.