Prime32
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« Reply #1060 on: June 07, 2010, 01:04:16 PM » |
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I think Negi's demon form is only pale because he's using his "turn into lightning" trick. And Saber's rank in "Noble Phantasm" is C with Shirou and A++ with other Masters - I don't see how this can be interpreted as a drop in power. EDIT: Comparison It was claimed that even Berserker would not be a match for Rin!Saber. Saber Alter has even higher stats in power and defence, but she's also slower. | Strength | B | | Mana | B | | Endurance | C | | N. Phantasm | C | | Agility | C | | Luck | B |
Magic Resistance: A Riding: B Instinct: A Prana Burst: A Charisma: B | Strength | A | | Mana | A | | Endurance | B | | N. Phantasm | A++ | | Agility | B | | Luck | A+ |
Magic Resistance: A Riding: B Instinct: A Prana Burst: A Charisma: B | Strength | A | | Mana | A++ | | Endurance | A | | N. Phantasm | A++ | | Agility | D | | Luck | C |
Magic Resistance: B Instinct: B Prana Burst: A (functions continuously due to excess mana) Charisma: E | Strength | B | | Mana | A | | Endurance | A | | N. Phantasm | A++ | | Agility | A | | Luck | D |
Magic Resistance: A Riding: A Instinct: A Prana Burst: A Charisma: B |
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 01:19:16 PM by Prime32 »
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Agita
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« Reply #1061 on: June 07, 2010, 01:18:57 PM » |
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Also less lucky, but tougher. Someone call Lancer. Oh, wait...  |
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veekie
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« Reply #1062 on: June 07, 2010, 01:33:21 PM » |
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Her Magic Resistance is low enough now for Caster to hurt her. But... EDIT: Are Excalibur's stats the same across all versions of Saber? |
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 01:35:11 PM by veekie »
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #1063 on: June 07, 2010, 01:35:24 PM » |
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Her Magic Resistance is low enough now for Caster to hurt her. But... Rank-B Magic Resistance is still very powerful - combined with the barrier of raw mana surrounding her body, Rin is still useless against her. A: Cancel spells of A-Rank or below. In practice, the Servant is untouchable to modern magi.
B: Cancel spells with a chant below three verses. Even if targeted by High-Thaumaturgy and Greater Rituals, it is difficult for him to be affected. As for Caster, she uses High-Thaumaturgy: A: High-Thaumaturgy-level Magecraft can be cast at the speed of Single-Action spells. EDIT: Are Excalibur's stats the same across all versions of Saber? The weapon itself is always ranked A++, but Saber's "Noble Phantasm" stat is much lower than that with Shirou. I think it indicates how much of your NP's full power you can draw out (for most of the other Servants the stat is equal to the rank of their strongest NP). |
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 01:40:38 PM by Prime32 »
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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veekie
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« Reply #1064 on: June 07, 2010, 01:41:06 PM » |
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Yeah, Rin wouldn't get more than one or two effective shots off even if she blew all her jewels on it, and it'd have to be at close range to pierce the crazy boosted defenses. Caster's beamspam array could have worked though/
Archer is wounded in Heaven's Feel, so he won't be able to take her on at peak. Unlimited Blade Works takes too long to cast against an enemy this fast, and the muck won't let him either. Maybe he can Project and fire Gae Bolg from a bow?
Gilgamesh might be worth a shot, but against Assassin, Alter Saber and Black Berserker...well, I doubt he'd last long, even for the King of Heroes. Unless he opens the fight with Ea.
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #1065 on: June 07, 2010, 01:53:36 PM » |
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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veekie
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« Reply #1066 on: June 09, 2010, 10:53:47 AM » |
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Shirou Must be Mine List - Obstacles:
Tohsaka : Servant Eliminated: Proceed to Stage 2
Saber-san: Back in black: must resolve
Albino Girl
Taiga
Issei
Kotomine
Archer
Rider
Shirou
-Head -See albino girl about solution
-Upper Torso
-Left Arm
-Right Arm - Unnecessary
-Lower Torso - Preserve at all costs
-Left Leg -Unnecessary
-Right Leg -Unnecessary
-Magic Circuits -See albino girl about solution
-Healing Factor
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #1067 on: June 09, 2010, 07:17:55 PM » |
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Someone needs to create a Magia Erebea PrC. This need has been present for a while, but meh.
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #1068 on: June 09, 2010, 07:46:33 PM » |
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Someone needs to create a Magia Erebea PrC. This need has been present for a while, but meh.
Difficult to do. The effects of absorbing spells varies depending on the nature of those spells, as Jack explained prior to the Nagi Cup finals. To get an accurate representation of those effects, we'd need a compliation of every spell descriptor out there. Even then, there would be so many options that it would just end up on the same level as the Shadowcraft Mage (barring Shadow Miracles for a moment) in terms of versatility. Never mind that the concept is likely less practical than just buffing yourself, as the specific spells would be more powerful than the generic boosts from the class features. Or the whole "absorbing your enemy's magic and using it to buff yourself" (which technically all ready exists in several spells). |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #1069 on: June 09, 2010, 08:01:08 PM » |
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Even then, there would be so many options that it would just end up on the same level as the Shadowcraft Mage (barring Shadow Miracles for a moment) in terms of versatility. Well then you'd just need to restrict the number of spells he knows how to absorb. Or maybe only allow it for elemental spells, and require the character to be limited to one element before entering the PrC (eg. elemental savant 1) or even a specialist evoker. |
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« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 08:05:35 PM by Prime32 »
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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veekie
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« Reply #1070 on: June 10, 2010, 01:32:51 AM » |
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You could simply make a list of menus for some common spell descriptors by spell level and determine the effect of absorbing the spell by the spell level absorbed for the Armatorium effect. Connect this to the ability to absorb a spell you cast, the ability to store absorbed spells in limbs ala spell storing weapons, the ability to convert a spell into a touch spell ala channeling(plus bonuses on hitting with stored spells), and you got a fairly workable casting PrC. Something like: Fire:
Spell level| Effect
1 | Bonus damage on melee attacks
2 | Enhancement bonus to Str and Dex equal to the spell level absorbed You have descriptors(4 elements, +/- energy, alignments) and spell schools to work with, a limited number of effects enabled(so you can use only 1 of the spell's descriptors for powering up at first, then increasing to 2 and 3 at higher levels). EDIT: Throw in a limit on the number of spells that can be absorbed in this way, starting with 1 and increasing as it levels(+1 slot per 3 levels?). Add a smaller number of spells that can be used for Armatorium bonuses(+1 at 5th and 10th). |
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« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 01:38:07 AM by veekie »
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #1071 on: June 10, 2010, 10:32:50 PM » |
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FMA's final chapter was posted today.
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #1072 on: June 11, 2010, 12:18:45 AM » |
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Dammit! Must read... and yet... so sleepy...
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veekie
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« Reply #1073 on: June 11, 2010, 01:21:26 AM » |
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A good end, to an epic saga. |
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Agita
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« Reply #1074 on: June 11, 2010, 04:36:29 AM » |
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I really need to watch/read FMA. And now, for something completely different. |
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Flay Crimsonwind
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« Reply #1075 on: June 11, 2010, 04:38:07 AM » |
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Dude, FMA was pretty epic. Nicely ended. I think I felt more attached to the end of the original series though, even if it was a total break from the manga.
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veekie
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« Reply #1076 on: June 11, 2010, 05:13:57 AM » |
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #1077 on: June 11, 2010, 09:54:27 AM » |
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 Is there some significance to this? Who's those people? I can tell you that it's one person, Kishua Zelretch Schweinorg, generally referred to as "Zelretch". Rin actually made a reference to him earlier in the route as well. |
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Agita
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« Reply #1078 on: June 11, 2010, 09:57:52 AM » |
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I can tell you that it's one person, Kishua Zelretch Schweinorg, generally referred to as "Zelretch". Rin actually made a reference to him earlier in the route as well.
I do feel like I've read the name Zelretch before. Didn't that dagger Shirou killed Kotomine with way back in Fate have something to do with him? |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #1079 on: June 11, 2010, 09:58:24 AM » |
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I can tell you that it's one person, Kishua Zelretch Schweinorg, generally referred to as "Zelretch". Rin actually made a reference to him earlier in the route as well.
I do feel like I've read the name Zelretch before. Didn't that dagger Shirou killed Kotomine with way back in Fate have something to do with him? No. But he is mentioned in other Type-Moon works (and talking about him too much here could raise spoilers). |
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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