Adding Things to the Game

[kevin_video]

So I'm doing my own game now with a groups of newbs, and one person in particular decided that he wanted to be a druid. Mostly because the idea of him transforming amuses him greatly.

Anyways, we're using the Pathfinder version of the class, and I've come to learn that this one has less spells, and more dead levels, than the original 3.5 one does. The main reason for his was because at 20th level, you can Wildshape at will. Personally I like that idea.

Now the problem lies with the dead levels. I've always used the dead levels. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a
This is fine, but they were designed around the original classes, and at such a period that they wouldn't break the game. But at the same time, they only had two dead levels. Now they have five, and a wizard's spell level progression.

Any idea where I could put them? I was thinking instead of 17 and 19, that maybe they'd enter at 7 and 11. Kind of balance out the lack of spells they get now. Not that it matters considering we're using the spell point system, and it's the same for a druid as it is for a cleric and wizard.

Any suggestions?

[RobbyPants]

Why are you using the PF version?  Is it a PF game, or do you just like that version better?

If it's not a PF game, you might consider the PHB2 shapeshift version of the druid instead.  It allows for shape changing right at first level at the cost of wild shape and the animal companion.  It's a better balanced class if that's what you're looking for.  That would preserve the usual 3.5 dead levels as well.

[kevin_video]

Why are you using the PF version?  Is it a PF game, or do you just like that version better?

If it's not a PF game, you might consider the PHB2 shapeshift version of the druid instead.  It allows for shape changing right at first level at the cost of wild shape and the animal companion.  It's a better balanced class if that's what you're looking for.  That would preserve the usual 3.5 dead levels as well.

It's not really a PF version, but rather we're using that to help those who want to use the core classes be more balanced with the classes in PHB2 and Heroes of Horror. I hadn't thought of the PHB2 shapeshift though.

Looking at it though, it's just as out there for dead levels. In fact, there's even more. As you stated it's replaced Wild Shape, but it didn't take over the spots.

[RobbyPants]

Well, it does give more dead levels technically speaking, but look at what those levels were: all you're missing out on is Wild Shape +1/day.  That's not much of a new ability, but more of the same.  So, if Wild Shape (per day) is replaced by something at will (shapeshift), where is the loss?

Also, casters don't suffer from dead levels in the same way that non-casters do.  They get spell slots to make up for it.  So really, a fighter has more dead levels than a sorcerer or cleric.

[kevin_video]

Well, it does give more dead levels technically speaking, but look at what those levels were: all you're missing out on is Wild Shape +1/day.  That's not much of a new ability, but more of the same.  So, if Wild Shape (per day) is replaced by something at will (shapeshift), where is the loss?

Also, casters don't suffer from dead levels in the same way that non-casters do.  They get spell slots to make up for it.  So really, a fighter has more dead levels than a sorcerer or cleric.

He decided he wants the ability to change at 1st level, so we're taking shapeshift.

True. It just feels weird though.

[veekie]

Just give him something simple like Speak with Animals at will. It's in line with the fluff and not exactly all-powerful, as long as you remember the animals think about animal things.

[kevin_video]

Just give him something simple like Speak with Animals at will. It's in line with the fluff and not exactly all-powerful, as long as you remember the animals think about animal things.

Is there actually a way to give that to him (item, feat, etc) without just giving it to him?

[veekie]

Count it as a special case of a Permanent spell if you will.

[RobbyPants]

Just give him something simple like Speak with Animals at will. It's in line with the fluff and not exactly all-powerful, as long as you remember the animals think about animal things.

Is there actually a way to give that to him (item, feat, etc) without just giving it to him?

I thought the idea was you wanted to fill dead levels.  There are two ways to fill dead levels:

1) Give new stuff on top of stuff they already have (typically just filler that doesn't radically boost power), or

2) Spread existing stuff around.

If you don't start rearranging abilities, or you don't have enough to spread in the first place, you have to give new abilities by definition.  It's the only way to fill dead levels.  So I would think you wouldn't want to make him spend a feat on it.

[PhaedrusXY]

Just give him something simple like Speak with Animals at will. It's in line with the fluff and not exactly all-powerful, as long as you remember the animals think about animal things.

Is there actually a way to give that to him (item, feat, etc) without just giving it to him?

Have him play a forest gnome?

[kevin_video]

Just give him something simple like Speak with Animals at will. It's in line with the fluff and not exactly all-powerful, as long as you remember the animals think about animal things.

Is there actually a way to give that to him (item, feat, etc) without just giving it to him?

Have him play a forest gnome?

He's already a changeling.

[veekie]

Well, as Robby said, he DOES have dead levels right?
Just shove it into one of them.