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Author Topic: [3.5E] The DIY "Wreck Ashore" adventure (WIP)  (Read 7071 times)
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NiteCyper
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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2010, 04:56:15 PM »

After Google research, I find that taking 20 on it is okay too. Here's what confuses me: say I am taking 20 without Hide in Plain Sight. An [sic] hidden observer watches me from prep. to finish. Doesn't the GM have to say to the player, "you can't do that, you're being observed"? I say no.

Secondly, the observer has a Hide check of infinite (i.e. so high that it doesn't matter; the aforementioned Hider cannot see the observer at all). As a result of their impregnable stealth, the observer is practically unthreatened. Can the observer take 10 or take 20 on their Spot check? I say yes.

[-0700 31/03/2010 Wed 15:28:27]
To investigate: Shadowlight oil, the existence of everburning candles,

[-0700 31/03/2010 Wed 16:14:21]
Everburning candles don't exist. Note: It's cheaper to buy a casting of "Continual Flame" (at 40 (standard) or 20 (optimized) gp) than it is to buy an everburning torch (110 gp). Someone also suggested casting it on a dead ioun stone so it floats around for you.

I want a house-rule on a candle or lantern of Shadowlight oil designed to hold a flame but conserve as much oil as possible.
Considerations: "Light" is a cantrip/orison while "Darkness" is a level 2 spell. Continual Flame (Evocation  [Light], Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 2).
I want magical Darkness for HiPS while I sleep.
Bah, forget it. I'll have some ready, but I'll find cover/concealment fine in the forest.

Does anyone know any handy sources of cheap magical darkness, say as a side effect of a trinket?

Even worse: a darkberry, from MoF.
5 gp These small, purple berries grow deep in hidden clumps in the many forests surrounding the Sea of Fallen Stars. Only a few berries manage to ripen from a bush each fall, and they become more rare every year. Darkberries actually contain shadowstuff within their skins. When a ripe darkberry is broken or crushed, it creates a 5-foot-diameter circle of blackness for 2 rounds.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 01:27:43 AM by NiteCyper » Logged

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Anklebite
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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2010, 07:38:44 PM »

use the cantrip "no light" then.
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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2010, 08:07:03 PM »

use the cantrip "no light" then.
It needs to last for eight hours while sleeping. Casting "Permanence" on it is a GM fiat. However, you bring up a good point: with an antithesis like "No Light", there should be a luminous antithesis of "Continual Flame", but I'd still rather have something solid.

And why the hell isn't "No Light" from the "Evocation [Darkness]" school...

Wait, I think I have something! "Deeper Darkness" lasts long enough and I have this. Sorry to be picky, but I don't prefer this as another feat.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 08:29:53 PM by NiteCyper » Logged

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Anklebite
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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2010, 08:08:44 PM »

use the cantrip "no light" then.
Needs to last for eight hours while sleeping. Casting "Permanence" on it is a GM fiat.
cast it on a rock which you dump in a glass jar of quintessence.
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2010, 08:20:43 PM »

use the cantrip "no light" then.
Needs to last for eight hours while sleeping. Casting "Permanence" on it is a GM fiat.
cast it on a rock which you dump in a glass jar of quintessence.
But do you have the price for quintessence?
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2010, 08:23:18 PM »

get some angel radiance.  It's even cheaper.
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« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2010, 08:26:19 PM »

get some angel radiance.  It's even cheaper.
I'm not looking to shed light, I'm looking to absorb it...err, well, emanate magical Darkness. Still, a step in the well-intentioned direction.
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Anklebite
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« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2010, 08:40:09 PM »

use the cantrip "no light" then.
Needs to last for eight hours while sleeping. Casting "Permanence" on it is a GM fiat.
cast it on a rock which you dump in a glass jar of quintessence.
But do you have the price for quintessence?
the price of one manifestation of it.
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« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2010, 08:43:16 PM »

use the cantrip "no light" then.
Needs to last for eight hours while sleeping. Casting "Permanence" on it is a GM fiat.
cast it on a rock which you dump in a glass jar of quintessence.
But do you have the price for quintessence?
the price of one manifestation of it.
With Psionic-Arcane transparency, it'd cost too much.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2010, 08:53:55 PM »

And a magic trap of it would still be too much (like 500 gp)
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« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2010, 08:55:10 PM »

seriously, why can't you just sleep in a tree? doesn't matter if it's during the day, you will be in concealment and in the shadows of the leaves.
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« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2010, 08:58:08 PM »

seriously, why can't you just sleep in a tree? doesn't matter if it's during the day, you will be in concealment and in the shadows of the leaves.
Probably will.

Bah, forget it. I'll have some [Shadowlight oil] ready, but I'll find cover/concealment fine in the forest.

Point is if anyone knows any convenient item that fills the inherent-prerequisite of magical darkness for the use of Blend into Shadows for HiPS in case I'm not in a favourable environment.

I was thinking maybe I could get the racial stealth bonus greater than Whisper Gnome that I want from an obscure level-0 monster class, but I'm not familiar with them. Hints?
If it's this, I haven't found anything better.

I also forgot about the "Dark Lantern" from Tome of Magic that sits beside the "Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis", but it's 2k gp.

[-0700 31/03/2010 Wed 20:02:38]
Well, the feat doesn't explicitly say I need the magical darkness to stay hidden. As long as I don't bring it up, it should be fine. I don't want to search anymore.

[-0700 01/04/2010 Thu 17:11:37]
Personalog
"[-0700 01/04/2010 Thu 13:21:39]
Their head pounds from a detrimental mixture of deprivation and duress. Luckily, no threat challenges them in their wracked state. That's the word: "wracked". Their head wracks. They keep their physical thoughts locked on locking their wings, coasting the rest of the way down. The never-ending slip-stream only strengthens their resolve for calm, warmth, stability, terra-firma, safety. They depress themself thinking of the fire they cannot have for the sake of stealth. They raise a solitary arm and index finger to clear their goggles' lenses of beads. A third-party would see a small, amorphous mass of grass popping out a hole in the bottom of a cloud, wing-tips displacing sky-fluff that whithers away in an invisible aerial flux. Spending exactly two minutes, they finally nest in the area they were scouting and sniffing like a dog, blending their outer vestment in perfectly with the grass. Even their scaly wings disappear under the natural surface-layer of shoots and sprigs. Amphibians belch high-pitched and the ceaseless cacophony of innumerable other denizens of the marsh-lands envelope them.

Hide in a tree, trees only in hummocks, panthers live/rest in hummocks, operate nocturnally rather than diurnally, even with an infinite Hide check, someone can spot them, say under their yowie/ghillie suit, curled up behind a building. Outside, or rather inside, of their ghillie-suit, they wear tight, black clothing. Mouth is never covered, then again, cone can bypass obstructions, no? Dry or warm themself with their own fire breath weapon. Instead of training the ability to have a single invocation of Darkness last long and emanate far ("Intensify Darkness"), they developed the ability to divert the power of a Darkness invocation to help them Hide better ("Fade into Darkness"). Does "Fade into Darkness" last as long as the invocation or 10 min./level of the SLA? What's the RP-significance of being an Unseelie Fey? Oh yeah, I forgot that "magic circle against nature" protects against the snakes. They're an "ice-dweller", so they shouldn't mind the cold. Does "magic circle against nature" protect against the "Sleep" spell? Can a wondrous item burn? Panther(s) passes by them. They see dawn blooming and decide to call it a night, err...day. Bugs and other creepy-crawlies could sneak up on them. Sleeping in marsh-land isn't comfortable neither. Environmentally hospitable qualities of extensive altitude. Fire-breathing on clouds? Marbles. Call for other sources of at-will SLA Darkness, level 1 source of magical darkness that lasts 8 hours unattended, free feats (Elder Evil-worship), Strongheart Halfling gets a racial stealth bonus?, compilation of stealth bonuses (distance), distance in darkness, unoptimal conditions (day-light, no natural sources of concealment/cover, AMF, etc.), benefit(s) of being a Warlock instead, definitive answer to the cohort-exclusivity of the Beguiler, clarification of rules on attacking before, after, and during hiding, Shadowlight oil, Dark Lantern, House-rule adjustable Darkness emanation, Darkness made to shadowy-illuminate only oneself for concealment, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm Marsh, does stealth allow taking 10?,

Chandelier = chatelier"
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 08:11:38 PM by NiteCyper » Logged

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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2010, 09:14:11 PM »

not that I know of.  Lesser shyft(ff) could work.  Da'hin'i get prestidigitation at will, fwiw.
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NiteCyper
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« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2010, 10:52:41 PM »

Quote from: Curmudgeon
Quote from: NiteCyper
3. Are you saying you make a Hide check when(ever) someone may Spot you?
Yes.  That's the standard way opposed checks work: they're rolled at the same time.
Quote from: NiteCyper
What's the point of hiding before sleeping then?
That's not possible by the standard D&D rules.  If there's nobody in line of sight then, you can't Hide:
Quote from: Hide
Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.
Conditions change over time, and D&D doesn't keep things constant for more than 6 seconds (1 round).  You're going to roll over, shift your bedding, and do other things as you sleep.  Your Hide check must always be made in the same circumstances as any possible Spotter.  You don't get to Hide, then fall asleep, and use that check hours later when the temperature's dropped and you're shivering to stay warm.  Nor do you get to "take 20" and use that for hours at a time.  No, you make your Hide check in the same round as an opponent makes their Spot check.

Quote from: Curmudgeon
Quote from: NiteCyper
The GM lets loose the information that there is a threat by asking for an opposed check. How do you counter this as a GM?
Roll for the player, or (particularly if they have no control, as when they're sleeping), use their "take 10" check value.  I always use "take 10" numbers (or "take 12" for Savvy Rogues) for passive check results.

Quote from: Curmudgeon
Quote from: NiteCyper
How do you justify the sudden expenditure of one's Darkness SLA every time someone gets a chance to look at the hider?
You follow the rules.  If you want to Hide, you spend a use of your darkness spell-like ability to make that Hide check, as specified in the Blend into Shadows feat.  Sleeping characters retain their desires, so the player can decide whether to try to Hide or not, even while the PC is sleeping.  A skill check that requires no action is one of those things that you can do even while asleep.  In fact, the game is explicit about giving characters the option to make Listen checks (albeit with a penalty) while sleeping.

Will you keep the count of their Darkness SLA hidden too, then (or immediately deplete it on principle)?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 11:04:30 PM by NiteCyper » Logged

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NiteCyper
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« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2010, 03:07:10 AM »

re: above post: I haven't got a reply back sith.

Reverted OPost back to Ospirit. Bamp.
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NiteCyper
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« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2010, 03:08:25 AM »

bamp

Comparison (WIP)
[-0700 09/04/2010 Fri 09:47:22]
Say the Sneaklock and the Dragonsneak Adept both leave city A, at 00:00, for light-house A. One leaves from the north point of Seawell, and the other leaves from the south point, or some other destinies that result in them not noticing each other. Say one leaves before the other, taking cloud-cover before the other has a chance to see the sky. A similar thing occurs when... I could have this go on until they are taking down pirates, mutually clandestine.

How about there's a dangerous, destructive, sadistic killer with a bounty on his head. This person is neither of the Sneakvokers, but it causes them to combat each other should they ever meet. Assume the marsh-lands for simplicity. Say the killer had been knocked out by earlier bounty-hunters, they were being transported by lowly Warrior 1 escorts, the killer awoke and manages to escape artist-or-something out of their wooden wagon cage. They escape into the marsh-lands. Naw, actually, this killer has similar abilities to the sneakvokers, to rile up the suspicions of the two sneakvokers. Wings and sneaky. Whisper Gnome. Surrounded by magical darkness. ...In fact, the sneakvokers are looking particularly for this fugitive because the sneakvokers run the risk of being falsely accused and detained for uncanny countenances to the fugitive.

Then, how do the sneakvokers learn about the fugitive? Flying does indeed complicate. Suppose the fugitive had their wings tied or had no form of flight at all. Skip to the two sneakvokers sneaking nearby each other.

Dragonsneak Adept: initiative: +6. Listen and Spot are class-skills.
"DRAGONTOUCHED
You have a trace of draconic power, a result of dragons in
your ancestry or a spiritual connection between you and the
forces of dragonkind.
 Prerequisite: Cha 11.
Benefit: You gain the dragonblood subtype. You gain 1
hit point, a +1 bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks,
and a +1 bonus on saving throws against paralysis and sleep
effects. In addition, you can select draconic feats as if you
were a sorcerer of your character level."
Listen & Spot: 4+1=+5, Hide: 1+1+4+5+4+2+1=+18, MS: 1+1+5+4+2=+13,

Sneaklock: initiative: +6, listen and spot aren't class-skills, Shape Soulmeld (Kruthik Claws) + Fade into Darkness, else Flexible Mind [Anarchic],
Listen & Spot: +2, Hide: 1+1+4+5+4+2+5+4+1=+27, MS: 1+1+4+4+2+5=+17,

Run-down: The Dragonsneak Adept doesn't perceive the Sneaklock. The Sneaklock doesn't perceive the DsA. On nat-1 stealth checks vs. nat-20 perception checks: the DsA doesn't see the Sneaklock, but they hear them. The Sneaklock sees and hears the DsA. Then again, as per the rules for effective invisibility for a hidden person, a DC 20 Spot check reveals their presence. For initiative, I determine who has a higher chance of perceiving the other. The probability statistics involved is...whoever has the higher result of your mod - theirs, take average of those, if any, involved. DsA: -12 hear, Sneaklock: (-16 (Spot)+(-11))/2=-13.5.
0 vs. +19 = 0/400
0 vs. +18 = 1/400
0 vs. +17 = 5/400
Sneaklock retreats 60-ft. and eldritch blasts.

6+2 vs. 10. Fails 1/20 times (i.e. on a roll of 1). 3.5 avg. damage. HP 12 -> 8.5. Next is the Sneaklock's new Hide check and Move Silently check?

"A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally."
re: sound of Eldritch Blast.

"Listen DC     Sound
-10    A battle"
Rules don't discuss attempting to attack quietly.

GM may force "Sniping" action.

"A successful [Listen] check lets a character hear an invisible creature “over there somewhere.” It’s practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A Listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature’s location."

"...if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location."
Query: general location = LoE, cone, or spherical emanation? Most likely the second. One can effectively track LoE by bisecting the cone. Thus, cone helps when noise comes from around a corner. The spherical emanation can be derived from a cone on a flat surface.

The Sneaklock may be unaware of the DsA's Breath Weapon, but they benefit from penalties (to perception checks) induced by distance combined with their 60-ft. range Eldritch Blast and to-hit base (flat-footed touch) AC. The DsA prefers a height of 60 ft. above-ground so an open emanation doesn't mark the ground. The Sneaklock would then prefer 20 ft. These numbers are outside of cloud-cover, or rather cloud-concealment.
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McPoyo
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« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2010, 10:44:03 AM »

I believe the battle sound DC is for things like weapons impacting armor, shields, people grunting or crying out in pain, etc. Not just making an attack. They've always claimed a melee attack isn't a single swing, but a series of swings, feints, parries, etc, and a successful attack roll indicates a scored hit.
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A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
NiteCyper
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« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2010, 01:24:48 PM »

I believe the battle sound DC is for things like weapons impacting armor, shields, people grunting or crying out in pain, etc. Not just making an attack. They've always claimed a melee attack isn't a single swing, but a series of swings, feints, parries, etc, and a successful attack roll indicates a scored hit.
1. Wow, you read that? I'm surprised and appreciative.
2. Flame-throwers make noise. Then again, that may due to the compression air blast. Does anyone have experience with correlations between ejections of streams of controlled flames and the noise produced thereof?
3. For someone who is trying to assassinate another, how would you rule the victim's cry of pain? e.g. Would you only have cry out in pain if they survive the surprise round? I've worded the preceding question to exclude the question of whether or not one is able to suppress their own, abrupt cry of pain .
4. On a similar note, is one able to talk during someone else's turn?

Messed up the numbering.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 10:17:09 AM by NiteCyper » Logged

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Havok4
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« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2010, 01:28:04 PM »

3. On a similar note, is one able to talk during someone else's turn?
Yes
Quote from: SRD
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn. Speaking more than few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
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McPoyo
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« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2010, 01:52:29 PM »

I believe the battle sound DC is for things like weapons impacting armor, shields, people grunting or crying out in pain, etc. Not just making an attack. They've always claimed a melee attack isn't a single swing, but a series of swings, feints, parries, etc, and a successful attack roll indicates a scored hit.
1. Wow, you read that? I'm surprised and appreciative.
2. Flame-throwers make noise. Then again, that may due to the compression air blast. Does anyone have experience with correlations between ejections of streams of controlled flames and the noise produced thereof?
2. For someone who is trying to assassinate another, how would you rule the victim's cry of pain? e.g. Would you only have cry out in pain if they survive the surprise round? I've worded the preceding question to exclude the question of whether or not one is able to suppress their own, abrupt cry of pain .
3. On a similar note, is one able to talk during someone else's turn?
1) From personal experience with professional flame throwers: Not an appreciable noise. About the same as a normal person talking at normal volume.
2) Eh, that's pretty far into Fiat territory there. I'd imagine if you took steps to prevent crying out (silence spell, area of silence ghost halfling SLA, silencing strike feat, slapping your hand over their mouth or throat punching them first...), it's likely to be heard. Granted, I assume, when DMing, if someone trained in stealth is making the attack, they are taking precautions to silence their target. If you one-hit them, no scream, otherwise...

I've also played under DMs who had the attacker make a modified Move Silently check substituting their BAB for their Ability Mod at a -5 penalty.
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A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
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