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Redeemer of Ogar
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« on: March 20, 2010, 11:57:24 PM » |
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 So, what are the effective ways for a party to deal with creatures that are really good at Hiding In Plain Sight? I know there are several spells that will find them once we detect them (glitterdust in particular), but other than hiring a rogue with a 40 spot check, what can you recommend?
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 12:00:45 AM » |
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Blindfold of Truesight, 8K for 30ft Blindsight, 24/7. Only the Darkstalker feat can beat it.
Alternatively, Obtain Familiar+Improved Familiar (Imp, Quasit, or Psuedodragon)+PsiReform to give it Mindsight. Not even Darkstalker can beat that.
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Anklebite
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2010, 12:01:20 AM » |
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So, what are the effective ways for a party to deal with creatures that are really good at Hiding In Plain Sight? I know there are several spells that will find them once we detect them (glitterdust in particular), but other than hiring a rogue with a 40 spot check, what can you recommend? mindsight detects anything with an int score automatically, and gives you their int score and creature type. touchsight automatically detects anything besides incorporeal within it's radius, and a transdimensional touchsight can never be overcome without an antimagic field. blindfold of true darkness gives 30ft blindsight, but creatures with darkstalker will still be hidden. |
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I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo
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SorO_Lost
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2010, 09:36:53 AM » |
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Flour, just throw it at the square they are near. A&E even goes as far as providing rules for it.
The funniest way to know where to throw is spot checking their foot prints becuase they are so well hidden you find where they are standing and you still can't see them. Doesn't work on stone for obvious reasons.
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Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2010, 09:42:14 AM » |
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Intelligent items with 120' blindsense. It's the least powerful lesser ability from weapons of legacy
Or be undead with lifesight so enemies glow.
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Nunkuruji
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2010, 11:57:39 AM » |
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HIPS still requires one to meet the condition to make a hide check, that is some sort of shadows/concealment/cover, etc. just that they can do it while observed.
If the HIPS enemies are primarily using shadows/shadowy illumination, and you yourself are not a sneaky party, then one somewhat simple option might be persisted/widened daylight
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SorO_Lost
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2010, 12:21:41 PM » |
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Also you can just request you're enchanted weapon glows, might cost more since it's only a 30% chance, and use your free light source that gets rid of the shadows they hide in to your advantage.
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Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2010, 12:23:37 PM » |
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Daylight won't cut it - we're dealing with beings from the Realm of Shadow, they bring their concealment with them (which the DM interprets that we do not notice either, unless we make the spot check or they decide to extend it over the entire area).
The flour trick is another "if you have already noticed something" solution, which does not prevent pick-pocketing or allow chases.
...Does blindsight beat a hide check of 30? Is hiding considered to be a form of concealment? That might work...
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Fluffles
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2010, 01:28:21 PM » |
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Blind sight doesn't even need a spot check. If they are in range, you know they are there. No questions asked. (If you want to be mean, get the Otherworldly feat and Polymorph into a void walker. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20031219a Because the [void] subtype is evil as hell.) |
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NiteCyper
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2010, 05:23:24 PM » |
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Hiding isn't a form of concealment, hiding requires concealment/cover. From this post onwards is a related discussion. |
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« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 05:29:59 PM by NiteCyper »
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Caveat: I edit my posts, ever and anon after.
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2010, 08:21:03 PM » |
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Corpse Candle is a 3rd level spell in the spell compendium that automatically reveals hidden creatures within its 10 foot radius of illumination. You can also move it as a free action every round, but I forget how far.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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Empirate
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
Posts: 200
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2010, 02:26:16 PM » |
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Summoning a Dire Bat will also work, however, it is only for those times when you know something's there. Defeated by Darkstalker, but still good in a pinch.
Oh, and a different way of going about the problem: Hide from them. That way, they'll have to come find you, and you can easily rig the situation so that finding you entails making oneself obvious. Maybe their Spot checks aren't as good as their Hide checks?
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veekie
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 04:30:48 AM » |
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Personally, I'd dump fog over the whole area. If you're going to be blind(and if they did it right, they should have Darkstalker anyway, negating many of the countermeasures available), might as well make them blind too.
A personal favorite is to use something like Acid Fog, with Resistance to Acid up on the whole party.
Uneven field effects, hooked up to party mindlink(to avoid hitting your own folks), should frustrate him enough that the shadow guys will go down.
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Fluffles
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 11:25:21 AM » |
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Anyways... Mindbender 1 + Mindsight.
Nothing can get away from it, not even Mind-Blank.
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snakeman830
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 11:38:31 AM » |
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Anyways... Mindbender 1 + Mindsight.
Nothing can get away from it, not even Mind-Blank.
Except a Hellbreaker. |
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I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle. The book doesn't even exist! Quotes: By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life. hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea. If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit. See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere. |
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 11:39:42 AM » |
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Anyways... Mindbender 1 + Mindsight.
Nothing can get away from it, not even Mind-Blank.
Except a Hellbreaker. Or your DMs likely house rules.  |
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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ksbsnowowl
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2010, 08:32:56 AM » |
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Daylight won't cut it - we're dealing with beings from the Realm of Shadow, they bring their concealment with them
What shadow creatures bring their concealment with them? The Shadow Creature template does no such thing. They could be carrying around pebbles with Darkness cast on it, but if the DM isn't letting you notice that, he's being a dick. |
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altpersona
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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 10:18:56 AM » |
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Shadow creature (template) Shadow Blend – As long as the Shadow Creature is not in full
daylight (or a Daylight spell), it can blend into the shadows,
gaining Total Concealment. dark creature (COLLAR OF UMBRAL METAMORPHOSIS / template) Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while
being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a
daylight spell, or a similar ettect). daylight is the high end 'light' spell. anything that daylight dosnt work on, use bigger guns, wish/miracle. beyond that is DM fiat. where the D is dick |
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« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 10:25:40 AM by altpersona »
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The goal of power is power. - idk We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head. Anim-manga sux.  |
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Bloody Initiate
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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 03:18:16 PM » |
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Don't neglect your spot check?
I'm playing a character with the Dark Template and I get to hide in combat constantly (I take the -20, and I don't care if I get noticed, because the possibility of vanishing from sight is worth it). I also carry my own shadowy illumination with me (Child of Shadow Stance says I'm running around with my own little shadow cloud).
My hide check at level 7 is +23. Thus when I hide in combat my hide check becomes +3. Anyone can get lucky and beat that, and people with a good spot check constantly beat that. That -20 hurts, but against people who don't think spot is a pointless skill I win.
I get a little frustrated with the schools of thought that throw out entire aspects as a character as "Irrelevant". Your spot check, your listen check, and your sense motive check all matter.
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I don't employ memes. Mass-produced ammunition, even from reputable manufacturers, tends to malfunction on occasion.
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Solo
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2010, 03:23:30 PM » |
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So, what are the effective ways for a party to deal with creatures that are really good at Hiding In Plain Sight? I know there are several spells that will find them once we detect them (glitterdust in particular), but other than hiring a rogue with a 40 spot check, what can you recommend? Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. |
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