OOC Chat

[VennDygrem]

Sort of like they did with Pathfinder, right? I actually like that idea. I hate having to balance spell slots for dinky level-0 spells, and the idea is that they're spells that are so easy to master you should be able to use them all the time anyway.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

I definitely think it's a step in the right direction to make spells more appealing to use; as is, I'm trying to conserve them and engage in melee, which might be my chosen path but is definitely not how the classes strengths make it structured for.

[veekie]

Well, thats sorta what I was referring to, when you get down to it, a weak blast ability is equivalent to an at will cantrip.

[RobbyPants]

Just an update: I'm sort of busy for the next few days still, and I haven't forgotten about you!

My current plan is to readjust the spell lists a bit, and perhaps add or modify some class features, particularly for the Geomancer and Aeromancer.  If you have any ideas before I post anything, I'm open.

[RobbyPants]

Flay, how do you feel about me making the Geomancer more like a Crusader who casts earth spells?

[Flay Crimsonwind]

Hrm, how do I feel about awesomesauce being dripped slowly over my character? Less erotically inclined than that sentence, but I still think the overall idea has merit and sounds boss for a melee caster.

[RobbyPants]

Okay, here's a rough draft of the modified Geomancer:

Geomancer

xxx

The Geomancer   Hit Die: d10

Level   Base        Fort  Ref   Will  Special
        Attack      Save  Save  Save
        Bonus
____________________________________________________________________________________
1       +0          +0    +0    +2    Armored mage, close to earth, stonecraft
2       +1          +0    +0    +3    Damage reduction 2/adamantine
3       +2          +1    +1    +3    Stone Enhancement
4       +3          +1    +1    +4    Advanced learning   
5       +3          +1    +1    +4    Familiar, elemental body
6       +4          +2    +2    +5    Damage reduction 4/adamantine
7       +5          +2    +2    +5    Burrow (earth, 10ft)
8       +6/+1       +2    +2    +6    Advanced learning   
9       +6/+1       +3    +3    +6    Adaptive mineral
10      +7/+2       +3    +3    +7    Damage reduction 6/adamantine, elemental body
11      +8/+3       +3    +3    +7    Sudden Stalagmite
12      +9/+4       +4    +4    +8    Advanced learning   
13      +9/+4       +4    +4    +8    Burrow (stone, full speed)
14      +10/+5      +4    +4    +9    Damage reduction 8/adamantine
15      +11/+6/+1   +5    +5    +9    Elemental body
16      +12/+7/+2   +5    +5    +10   Advanced learning   
17      +12/+7/+2   +5    +5    +10   Earth glide
18      +13/+8/+3   +6    +6    +11   Damage reduction 10/adamantine
19      +14/+9/+4   +6    +6    +11   
20      +15/+10/+5  +6    +6    +12   Advanced learning

Spells per Day:

Lvl  1st    2nd    3rd    4th    5th    6th
___________________________________________
1    -      —      —      —      —      —
2    0      —      —      —      —      —
3    1      —      —      —      —      —
4    2      0      —      —      —      —
5    3      1      —      —      —      —
6    3      2      -      —      —      —
7    3      2      0      —      —      —
8    3      3      1      -      —      —
9    3      3      2      -      —      —
10   3      3      2      0      -      —
11   3      3      3      1      -      —
12   3      3      3      2      -      -
13   3      3      3      2      0      -
14   3      3      3      3      1      -
15   4      3      3      3      2      -
16   4      4      3      3      2      0
17   4      4      4      3      3      1
18   4      4      4      4      3      2
19   4      4      4      4      4      3
20   4      4      4      4      4      4 

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Climb, Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Profession, Search, Spellcraft.

Class Features
Your class features focus on advancing your connection to the element of earth.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Geomancers are proficient with all simple weapons plus the light and heavy pick, and with all martial bludgeoning weapons.  Geomancers are proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor, as well as shields (except tower shields).

Spells: A geomancer casts arcane spells which are drawn from the spell list below. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time.  To cast a spell of a given level, the geomancer must have a Constitution score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a geomancer's spell is 10 + the spell level + the geomancer's Constitution modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a geomancer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the Spells per Day table, above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Constitution score.

Armored Mage (Ex): A geomancer can cast arcane spells in any armor or shield with which he is proficient without risking arcane spell failure.  This only applies to spells granted by the geomancer class.

Close to Earth (Ex): The geomancer is attuned to the earth, and he heals faster when in contact with it.  When standing on solid earth or stone, the geomancer gains fast healing 1.  His fast healing improves by one point per round at 5th level and every five levels thereafter.

A multiclassed geomancer loses this ability unless he has at least four geomancer class levels.  If a multiclassed geomancer later increases his class level to four or higher, he regains this ability.

Stonecraft (Ex): The geomancer gains a +4 competence bonus on all Appraise and Craft checks involving stone (including precious stones) and metal.  In addition, he is treated as having the Trapfinding ability or a rogue for purposes of finding traps made of stone, or set inside of stone (including stone doors, chests, floors, and other such objects).  He may use Knowledge(dungeoneering) in place of Disable Device to remove such traps.

Damage Reduction (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the geomancer gains damage reduction overcome by adamantine weapons.  At first level, he gains DR 2/adamantine.  This damage reduction improves by two points each four levels thereafter, to a maximum of DR 10/adamantine at 18th level.

Stone Enhancement (Su): Starting at 3rd level, the geomancer can use his magical power to enhance his combat ability.  He may expend a spell slot as a swift action to increase the damage dealt by any melee or ranged weapon made of stone he wields by 1d6 points per spell level of the slot spent.  This damage ignores all damage reduction and any hardness below 20.  These attacks gain a competence bonus to hit equal to the level of the spell slot spent.

These effects last for one minute per spell level of the slot spent.

Advanced Learning (Ex): at 4th level, and every four levels thereafter, a geomancer can learn a new spell, adding it permanently to his spell list.  The spell must be from a 9-level spell list with either the [acid] or [earth] descriptor and it must be of a level the geomancer can currently cast.  Once this spell is picked, it cannot be changed.  This spell is treated as an arcane spell, regardless of the list is is normally found on.

Alternately, the geomancer can pick any reserve feat or fighter feat for which he meets the prerequisites.

Familiar (Ex): At 5th level, the geomancer can get a small earth elemental as a familiar.  The earth elemental behaves as a familiar, as described under the sorcerer and wizard classes, except that it does not require gold to summon and the geomancer loses no experience if the familiar dies or is dismissed.  A new familiar can be summoned within 24 hours.

Elemental Body (Ex): At 5th level, the geomancer’s body begins to take on the traits of an earth elemental.  His appearance changes slightly (such as his eyes taking on a jeweled appearance or his skin turning brown or grey), and he gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep, stunning, paralysis, and poison.  He also has a 25% chance to ignore a critical hit (or any effect that only affects creatures vulnerable to critical hits).  This percentage chance does not stack with the Fortification ability.

At 10th level, he gains darkvision with a range of 60 feet, his save bonus increases to +4, and his chance to ignore critical hits increases to 50%.

At 15th level, his type changes to elemental, and he gains all the appropriate traits.

Burrow (Ex): At 7th level, the geomancer can burrow through soft earth at a speed of ten feet per round.  At 13th level, the geomancer can burrow at his base land speed, and he can burrow though stone, as well.

Adaptive Mineral (Ex): At 9th level, a geomancer may treat any weapon primarily made of stone that he wields as silver, cold iron, and adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction or regeneration.

Sudden Stalagmite (Sp): At 11th level, the geomancer can cast Sudden Stalagmite (See the Spell Compendium) as a spell-like ability, at will.

Earth Glide (Ex): At 17th level, the geomancer can glide through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. His burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other signs of its presence. A Move Earth spell cast on an area containing a burrowing geomancer flings him back 30 feet, stunning him for 1 round unless he succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.


Geomancer Spell List

Level 0: Detect Earth ^*, Detect Magic, Hail of Stone ^{SC *}, Mending, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance, Virtue

Level 1: Fist of Stone ^SC, Foundation of Stone ^SC, Ironguts ^SC, Magic Stone, Sandblast ^SC, Shield

Level 2: Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength, Chill Metal, Earthbind ^SC, Earthfast ^SC, Earthen Grace ^SC, Earthen Grasp ^SC, Earth Lock ^SC, Heat Metal, Protection from Arrows, Soften Earth and Stone

Level 3: Avoid Planar Effects ^{SC, E}, Bands of Steel ^SC, Dispel Magic, Earthbolt ^CA, Eradicate Earth ^SC, Giant’s Wrath ^SC, Meld into Stone, Shatterfloor ^SC, Spike Growth, Stone Shape, Summon Monster III ^E, Tremorsense ^SC

Level 4: Metal Melt ^SC, Stoneskin, Stone Sphere ^SC, Sudden Stalagmite ^SC, Summon Monster IV ^E, Wall of Sand ^SC

Level 5: Earth Reaver ^SC, Indomitablity ^SC, Lesser Ironguard ^SC, Passwall, Planar Tolerance ^SC,E, Plane Shift ^E, Summon Monster V ^E, Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, Xorn Movement ^SC

Level 6: Flesh to Stone, Genjump ^SC, Greater Dispel Magic, Move Earth, Stone Body ^SC, Stone Tell, Stone to Flesh, Summon Monster VI ^E, Tunnel Swallow ^SC, Wall of Gears ^SC, Wall of Iron

^{* - New/modified spell described below.
E – earth creatures only, or elemental plane of earth only
SC – Spell Compendium
CA – Complete Arcane
P2 – Player’s Handbook II}


New Geomancer Spells

Detect Earth:
Level 1
As Detect Animals and Plants, except you detect stone, metals, and minerals in the area, mundane or magical.

1st round
Presence or absence of unworked stone, metal, and minerals.

2nd round
Number of deposits or objects detected in the area.

3rd round
The size of each deposit or object and its nature (type of metal, mineral, or stone, as well as if it’s enchanted).  If it is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.


Hail of Stone:
Level 0
Increase damage to 1d6 per caster level.

____________________________________________________

Here's a quick rundown of the changes:

• d10 HD instead of d8
• Proficient with all armor types (not tower shields)
• Armored Mage works with all types proficient
• Removed Natural AC bonus
• Removed Stone Impact
• Casting is Con based
  
• Spell progression is limited to 6th level spells (bard progression)
• Gain fast healing at 1st level when standing on earth/stone (Close to Earth ability)
  
• Gain ability to spend spell slots a swift action to improve damage dealt by stone weapons for several minutes (Stone Enhancement ability)
  

Anyway, let me know what you think.  I'm hoping it's okay.


Also, I'm thinking of making all cantrips at will, which would let Hail of Stone be at will (note this is the Spell Compendium version, but with 1d6 damage per caster level).  When I get a chance, I'll see if I can re-level the blast spells for the other classes.

[veekie]

Hmm, biggest change is probably the casting I guess. P.s. if Cantrips were at will, and the basic 'blast' ability is a cantrip, it might seem to have a more natural scaling.

[RobbyPants]

What do you mean by a more natural scaling?

I was afraid that if I tried to keep it at full casting, that it'd be too much.  Although, with the casting dropped, would full BAB be too much?  I was thinking about doing that, and I never edited it in.

[archangel.arcanis]

From personal experience with a Con based caster, expect them to have stupid high hit points. I ran a Rokugan game with a con based shugenja and by the time we quit at about level 23-24 they had well over 300 hp with only d6.

I won't complain about that for the Geo as I think it is fitting, but wanted to point out where it will likely head. Overall I like the Geo Changes.

[RobbyPants]

That's somewhat what I was hoping for. 

Do you think the Stone Enhancement is good, but not too good?  It costs spell slots which subtract from other uses, roughly brings your hit chances to that of a full BAB character (while keeping BAB technically 3/4), adds extra damage and ignores DR and hardness.  This seems like a nice way to keep the geomancer from needing several weapons for DR and keeps him doing extra damage a little behind a strike on a single-attack basis.  Full attacking will ramp up the damage considerably, but it's more for a stand-and-deliver approach.  I guess wielding two light weapons would make this much more powerful (maybe too good).

My biggest concern on Stone Enhancement is the duration.  I want it good enough that you don't mind blowing a spell slot, but maybe it's too good?

[archangel.arcanis]

It may be bordering on too good, but I also think that with their limited spell slots they will be hesitant to use all but their lower level slots on it. That bonus shouldn't be too big for the level though. I would probably also add in something to say which weapons could be made of stone, at least until they get a way of easily shaping the stone themselves.

[veekie]

Basically, as a cantrip, just scale the effect by CL of course. But then save DC would be a problem hmm.

[RobbyPants]

Basically, as a cantrip, just scale the effect by CL of course. But then save DC would be a problem hmm.

Okay.  Well, they do scale, but they tend to cap at 5dX at 5th level, so they scale sharply, then stop.  I suppose the time they stop, you get access to 3rd level spells, so blowing a standard action on a blast cantrip is becoming less optimal.  How far do you think they should scale?

I'm not sure DC is much of a problem, since most cantrips either do cool, useful little things or can be used for blasting.

[archangel.arcanis]

I think scaling to level 5 is good. By then they are there to take the place of making a normal attack when you don't have a better spell for the job. The only real weakness in that is when you hit a golem or something like that you had better have  real weapon too.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

Alrighty, I agree that (having played bards similarly), small spell lists make me paranoid to use spells of highest level, but that's more a playstyle thing than logic. I think the reliance on con and the natural disposition of this class to dumping possibly two or three stats and raising the hell out of con and strength make this a great gish class, and removes the few-spells issue.

HD boost is sick, as is replacing nat armor for heavier armor. Lose stone impact but gain fast healing? I actually like that better, since frankly even without the ability to sack spells for damage, there are plenty of ways to gain extra damage, but not so many for getting fast healing.

Overall, a superb durable class, and I like it muuuuuuch better than the original! Well done.

[RobbyPants]

If no-one else has a problem with it, I'd say lets try testing this version, if you don't mind creating a new 4th level Thorden, Flay?  Also, don't forget that you can use Hail of Stone at will for 4d6 damage in a five-foot radius cylinder at medium range.

So, any suggestions on things missing in the bottom 4 levels of the other three classes?  I'm trying to think of good Medium+ range options.  Making Fireball a 1st level spell seems like that covers the Pyromancer nicely. 

Given the dropping of spell level for blast spells, what level do you feel the Orb of X spells are?  2nd?  If so, that could cover the other two classes as well.  Failing that, what else might help?  A better version of Propelled Shot?  What for the Hydromancer?  He seems the least blasty, but perhaps some good mid-range CC instead?

[Flay Crimsonwind]

What? Oh, yes, sure.... I... I just need..... a second....... Dexter season 4 finale...... think I have to find a..... corner..... let some part of my soul die...... I'll get it to you late Sunday........

[RobbyPants]

What? Oh, yes, sure.... I... I just need..... a second....... Dexter season 4 finale...... think I have to find a..... corner..... let some part of my soul die...... I'll get it to you late Sunday........

That's fine.  I have to do some quick rework on the other three, too.

[archangel.arcanis]

I'm not really sure how to alter my class. I like the idea of guided shot, but it just feels underwhelming and that could be the dice rolls associated with it. Maybe making the lesser orbs @will for everyone would give us all nice fall back options for combat. I think for me it will depend at what level call lighting drops to for my med->long range spell. Other than that maybe some way of seeing through my own fog and cloud spells so they won't hose me up as much or more than them or some ability to help keep them from being blown away so easily.