OOC Chat

[Flay Crimsonwind]

And call it Tsar Bomba...

First thought was Axel from Kingdom Hearts, anyone else think that?

[RobbyPants]

^^
I like the way he thinks. Thinking more along the lines of an expanding AoE every round though.
So start as a 30ft radius ball and then double radius every round.

So the longer you let him concentrate, the moar he burniates the planet?

[VennDygrem]

I like the concept, thogh I think doubling each round from 30 is a bit much, even for high level.

[veekie]

Remember Venn, after 60ft radius the rest of the area is academic, because all your opponents are already in it. Stylistically though...

[RobbyPants]

Remember Venn, after 60ft radius the rest of the area is academic, because all your opponents are already in it. Stylistically though...

I'd thought the same thing.  After 60-90 feet, it becomes more of a plot device at that point.

"Oh no!  There's a tremendous forest fire encroaching on the village!  Zelbedar the Pyromancer must be at it again!"


I guess as a compromise, it could do CLd6 damage at first (or for several rounds) and then start spreading at 30 feet per round of concentration, but have the damage drop back significantly (down to 5d6 or 2d6).  At that point, it isn't a threat for level-appropriate opponents, but it's still a plot device.

[VennDygrem]

Why is "plot device" a consideration? The only other spells or powers I can think of that qualify for that are Wish, Miracle, or Genesis.

If the size of the power's area becomes "academic" as you put it, then what is the point? D&D isn't a thought-exercise or a thesis, it's a game.

And if a character really wanted to start a forest fire, for instance, they wouldn't need a 300-foot diamater firebomb to do it; Burning Hands can achieve the same effect, and at the same level one gets access to this other power, the mage using Burning Hands probably has effectively limitless access since it's just a 1st level spell. Less awesome, maybe, but you're not wasting as many high-level resources to achieve the desired outcome.

[RobbyPants]

Maybe it doesn't even matter.  Really, all I was looking for was a 9th-level-worthy [fire] blast power.

[VennDygrem]

Sorry if I came across like an asshole, but I think maybe we're just not being creative enough in trying to make it stand apart from the flock, as it were.

[RobbyPants]

No, it's cool.  I'm still toying with how I want to handle everything.  I largely want them to be full casters with a themed list, which is where a lot of their power comes from, but they need features to be both interesting and to fill in the gaps.

I'm busy working on capstones.  I'm thinking something allowing them to have a huge amount of control of their given element within 60 feet of them at will.  So a pyro could start or stop fires within 60 feet in any squares he wants.  The geo would probably get something like Stone Shape that also works on metal (not attended objects) within the area.  I'm thinking about letting them permanently form elementals out of the proper amount of the element as well.  I'm not sure if I want them to control them, or just have them be indifferent in attitude.

[veekie]

Well, the rationale is mainly to have 9th level evocation equivalents be as impressive as their other school equivalents(Wish, Shapechange, Gate, Weird). Meanwhile all you get for your 9th level fireball is that it's not even that much hotter.

Even a 30ft/CL fireball is really more of a 7th level spell potency(you're already hitting every opponent on the field, and Control Weather can drop a blizzard on somebody easily),  or even a contagious fire(60ft radius initially, everything which takes damage from it burns for CLd6, and everything adjacent to something on fire must make a ref save or also catch on fire). For 9th level I expect something that transforms everything in a large, shapeable area into elemental fire for it's duration.

As for capstone, permanently creating elementals isn't that powerful, provided you have a limit on the number you can control(use Rebuking rules?), seems like level 15+ goodies. The control...hmm, depends on the mechanics, classic fire control is a 1st level psionic power.

At a lower level you could consider allowing them to Speak with Element, though Fire would have to be more like a scrying target(aware of everything happening within line of sight of any fire within a large radius).

[VennDygrem]

Well, for the geomancer, for instance, perhaps allowing such an ability to not only shape the raw material, but alter its composition, so that round by round, you can decide to turn earth to mud to rock to salt to metal to mud again to some other earthen material. That could be pretty interesting in combination with a summon elemental spell.

As for pyro, they are really meant to be blasters, as you said. The main thing that gets in their way is fire resistance or immunity. Perhaps take a page from Fiendish Codex II: make their ability into hellfire, which bypasses fire resistance/immunity since it burns so much hotter than normal fire.

If that's too much, then make it simply treat resistance as 10 points less, and treat fire immunity as resistance 20 (or 30, or something). I'm fairly sure there's a precedent for that, somewhere.

I do have one idea for a spell/ability.
Curse of Conflagration
Medium Range
40 ft. area
Duration: ??

Enemies in the area are branded with a fiery symbol somewhere on their body, usually the forehead or the core component of their bodily structure. Living creatures immediately feel their blood boiling, while non-living creatures and creatures without blood simply begin burning internally. Creatures take [xd6] points of fire damage.

On the following round, the cursed fire spreads. Affected creatures are now visibly on fire, though unarmed or other melee attackers take no damage from attacking these creatures. They take [xd6] points of fire damage, and are sickened. Enemies within 15 feet of affected creatures become subject to the first round's effects as the curse spreads.

On the third round after being cursed, the terrible flame spreads further still. Affected creatures take [xd6] points of fire damage, and their sickened condition worsens to nauseated. They must also make a successful Will save or become Confused. Any creature that saves against confusion must make a new save each round that they continue to take damage from this spell. Thanks to the confusion effect, the curse continues to spread to new targets as it did on the previous round.

On subsequent rounds, those affected continue to take damage, while those not already confused continue to make saving throws to avoid succumbing to the dread realization of imminent death.

Special: Undead and construct creatures, and any others that may be immune to fortitude save effects, are immune to the sickened and nauseated effects of this spell, but are not immune to the damage or confusion effect.

Very rough idea, but I like the concept of a curse that spreads like a wildfire, and this sort of achieves the constantly-expanding area of effect you guys were playing around with before. Any creatures that become confused have a chance of running away at top speed, thus spreading the effect. I did consider using fear effects instead of the other status effects I wrote above, though I'm honestly not sure of what is best. The main idea is that in general, if you catch on fire (especially if you seem to have spontaneously combusted) you're probably more likely to run around like a chicken with its head off than to keep fighting with a clear head.

It's also not exactly balanced yet, since it's just a rough draft.

[RobbyPants]

As for pyro, they are really meant to be blasters, as you said. The main thing that gets in their way is fire resistance or immunity. Perhaps take a page from Fiendish Codex II: make their ability into hellfire, which bypasses fire resistance/immunity since it burns so much hotter than normal fire.

I built that into the class features already.  They are able to ignore a number of points of fire resistance equal to their class level, and at level 15, they treat immunity as resistance 25 (lowering it to 10 with their resistance-ignoring ability).

That Curse of Conflagration spell is interesting.   What level were you thinking?  9?

[veekie]

Looks 8th-ish to me, mostly since it takes a while to kick in. Most high level fights lasting 2 rounds, in combat it's a staggered double xd6 with a debuff.

If you make the debuff effects start in the first round of being on fire and make the fire last minutes/level(you'd need a mechanic for extinguishing the fire though), theres a fair good case for level 9.

[archangel.arcanis]

I'm still on the thought of transformation to an elemental at or near the capstone. Perhaps something akin to a hybrid human-elemental like a Lychanthrope's hybrid form.

[RobbyPants]

I thought about that, but it seems semi late to be useful.  Maybe full-fledged elemental form for fun, but I doled out the immunities at level 15.

[VennDygrem]

Driving down to school the next two days. Limited posting ability during that time.

[archangel.arcanis]

I thought about that, but it seems semi late to be useful.  Maybe full-fledged elemental form for fun, but I doled out the immunities at level 15.

I think the big immunity should be mind-affecting that elementals get. That is probably best handed out some time after Mind Blank becomes available anyway.

Another thing I was just thinking about was the Geo getting the ability to make stone pillars at will much like the Deepstone Sentinel from ToB. Perhaps to make it a spell use Bones of the Earth (PH2 i think). I think it would be very thematic and potentially useful for home building and other utilities, but not very good in combat unless you are running down a 5' wide cave.

[veekie]

I'm still on the thought of transformation to an elemental at or near the capstone. Perhaps something akin to a hybrid human-elemental like a Lychanthrope's hybrid form.

Theres one way you can do that, give out the persistent immunities at earlier levels and give a limited duration full elemental transformation at earlier levels, at level 20 it reverses and you can now spend some time as a human instead of as an elemental.

I.e.
Level 10: Su Elemental Form rounds/level duration total per day, transform as standard, revert as free
Level 13: Elemental Form minutes/level duration, transform as move
Level 16: Elemental Form 10 minutes/level duration, transform as swift.
Level 19: Elemental Form hours/level duration, transform as free
Level 20: Permanent Elemental Form(Ex), revert to human as free action

[RobbyPants]

I think the big immunity should be mind-affecting that elementals get. That is probably best handed out some time after Mind Blank becomes available anyway.

The ones I was thinking about are the base elemental immunities: sleep, stunning, paralysis, poison, critical hits, and flanking.  I suppose I could leave them vulnerable to flanking unless they actually assume an amorphous elemental form.

[archangel.arcanis]

I think the big immunity should be mind-affecting that elementals get. That is probably best handed out some time after Mind Blank becomes available anyway.

The ones I was thinking about are the base elemental immunities: sleep, stunning, paralysis, poison, critical hits, and flanking.  I suppose I could leave them vulnerable to flanking unless they actually assume an amorphous elemental form.

Either it was 3.0 or i'm misremembering but i thought they got mind-affecting too, but i'm not seeing it in the SRD.