OOC Chat

[RobbyPants]

Sorry things have been taking so long.  I was hoping to have more done by this weekend.  I started working on class features a bit, but I didn't get enough done to warrant posting.

[RobbyPants]

Okay!  I got some work done, but it's still not complete.  I haven't done anything for the hydromancer yet, either.  Here's what I have for the other three classes:

Aeromancer

1   Armored mage, Feather Fall, breathless
2   Wind propulsion
3   Fast movement +10 ft
4   Gust of Wind
5   Familiar
6
7   Improved flight
8
9   Fast movement +20 ft,
10
11  Permanent flight
12
13
14
15  Fast movement +30 ft
16
17
18
19
20

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Aeromancers are proficient with all simple weapons plus the rapier and bows.  Aeromancers are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Armored Mage (Ex): An aeromancer can cast arcane spells in light armor without risking arcane spell failure.  This only applies to spells granted by the aeromancer class.

Feather Fall (Su): An aeromancer is continually under the effect of a Feather Fall spell.  This ability may be suppressed or reactivated as a swift action at will.

Breathless (Ex): An aeromancer does not need to breathe and is unaffected by inhaled toxins and poisons.

Wind Propulsion (Su): At 2nd level, the aeromancer can create wind to propel her ranged attacks.  The aeromancer doubles the range of all attacks made with ranged and thrown weapons.

Fast Movement (Ex): The aeromancer gains a +10 foot enhancement bonus to her base land speed at 3rd level.  The bonus increases to +20 feet at 9th level and +30 feet at 15th level.

Gust of Wind (Sp): An aeromancer can use Gust of Wind as a spell-like ability at will, with a caster level equal to her class level.

Familiar (Ex): At 5th level, the aeromancer can get a small air elemental as a familiar.  The air elemental behaves as a familiar, as described under the sorcerer and wizard classes, except that it does not require gold to summon and the aeromancer loses no experience if the familiar dies or is dismissed.  A new familiar can be summoned within 24 hours.

Improved Flight (Ex): At 7th level, the maneuverability of an aeromancer’s flight (natural or magical) is improved by one category, to a maximum of perfect.  In addition, she may add her Fast Movement speed bonus to her flight speed.

Permanent Flight (Su): At 11th level, the aeromancer gains the ability to fly at will.  She may fly as though affected by the Fly spell, and this ability is affected by her Improved Flight ability as normal.

Geomancer

1   Armored mage, natural armor +1, stonecraft
2   Damage reduction 2/adamantine
3   Stone impact +1d6
4
5   Natural armor +2
6   Damage reduction 4/adamantine
7   Burrow (earth, 10ft), stone impact +2d6
8
9   Adaptive mineral
10  Natural armor +3, damage reduction 6/adamantine
11  Stone impact +3d6
12
13  Burrow (stone, full speed)
14  Damage reduction 8/adamantine
15  Natural armor +4, stone impact +4d6
16
17  Earth glide
18  Damage reduction 10/adamantine
19  Stone impact +5d6
20  Natural armor +5

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Geomancers are proficient with all simple weapons plus the light and heavy pick, and with all martial bludgeoning weapons.  Geomancers are proficient with light and medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).

Armored Mage (Ex): A geomancer can cast arcane spells in light or medium armor and shields (except tower shields) without risking arcane spell failure.  This only applies to spells granted by the geomancer class.

Natural Armor (Ex): The geomancer’s skin begins to toughen, granting him a +1 natural armor bonus to his armor class.  This bonus stacks with other natural armor other natural armor bonuses.  The natural armor bonus increases by +1 every five levels, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

Stone Craft (Ex): The geomancer gains a +4 competence bonus on all Appraise and Craft checks involving stone (including precious stones) and metal.  In addition, he is treated as having the Trapfinding ability or a rogue for purposes of finding traps made of stone, or set inside of stone (including stone doors, chests, floors, and other such objects).  He may use Knowledge(dungeoneering) in place of Disable Device to remove such traps.

Damage Reduction (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, the geomancer gains damage reduction overcome by adamantine weapons.  At first level, he gains DR 2/adamantine.  This damage reduction improves by two points each four levels thereafter, to a maximum of DR 10/adamantine at 18th level.

Stone Impact (Ex): At 3rd level, the geomancer is able to inflict extra damage when wielding melee weapons primarily composed of stone.  Each successful attack deals an additional 1d6 points of damage.  This damage increases by 1d6 every four levels thereafter.  This extra damage is not multiplied on a critical hit.

Familiar (Ex): At 5th level, the geomancer can get a small earth elemental as a familiar.  The earth elemental behaves as a familiar, as described under the sorcerer and wizard classes, except that it does not require gold to summon and the geomancer loses no experience if the familiar dies or is dismissed.  A new familiar can be summoned within 24 hours.

Burrow (Ex): At 7th level, the geomancer can burrow through soft earth at a speed of ten feet per round.  At 13th level, the geomancer can burrow at his base land speed, and he can burrow though stone, as well.

Adaptive Mineral (Ex): At 9th level, a geomancer may treat any weapon primarily made of stone that he wields as silver, cold iron, and adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

Earth Glide (Ex): At 17th level, the geomancer can glide through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. His burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other signs of its presence. A Move Earth spell cast on an area containing a burrowing geomancer flings him back 30 feet, stunning him for 1 round unless he succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.

Pyromancer

1   Armored mage, resist fire, Produce Flame
2   Smoke, breathe smoke
3   Pierce resistance
4
5   Familiar
6
7   Lingering flames
8
9   Thick smoke
10  Resist fire (immune)
11
12
13  Cloud of smoke
14
15  Pierce resistance (immune)
16
17  Incendiary smoke
18
19
20

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Pyromancers are proficient with all simple weapons plus the scimitar and falchion.  Pyromancers are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Armored Mage (Ex): A pyromancer can cast arcane spells in light armor without risking arcane spell failure.  This only applies to spells granted by the pyromancer class.

Produce Flame (Sp): A pyromancer can use Produce Flame as a spell-like ability at will, with a caster level equal to her class level.  Attacks made with this ability do not reduce its duration.

Resist Fire (Ex): A pyromancer has an innate ability to resist fire.  She gains two points of fire resistance per class level.  At 10th level, she gains fire immunity.

Smoke (Su): At 2nd level, a pyromancer can create a cloud of smoke in a 5-foot square anytime she casts a spell with the fire descriptor.  This cloud of smoke can occupy any square in the spell’s area (if any) or the square of the target.

This smoke lasts for one round and obscures vision.  Anyone attacking into or from within the smoke has 20% concealment.  In addition, anyone in or passing through the smoke must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the pyromancer class level + the pyromancer’s Charisma modifier) or be sickened for one round.

Breathe Smoke (Ex): The pyromancer is immune to any negative effects caused by smoke, mundane or magical.  She may also see clearly though smoke and is not affected by concealment caused by it.

Pierce Resistance (Su): As a pyromancer gains power, she is able to create fire so hot as to bypass the resistance of other creatures.  At 3rd level, a pyromancer can ignore a number of points of fire resistance equal to her class level.  So a 5th level pyromancer would treat fire resistance 10 as 5, and would ignore fire resistance 5 or lower completely.

At 15th level, the pyromancer may treat any creature with fire immunity as having fire resistance of 25 instead.  This combines with the pyromancer’s ability to lower fire resistance, so a 15th level pyromancer would ultimately treat fire immunity as fire resistance 10.

Familiar (Ex): At 5th level, the pyromancer can get a small fire elemental as a familiar.  The fire elemental behaves as a familiar, as described under the sorcerer and wizard classes, except that it does not require gold to summon and the pyromancer loses no experience if the familiar dies or is dismissed.  A new familiar can be summoned within 24 hours.

Lingering Flames (Su): At 7th level, anytime the pyromancer casts a spell with the fire descriptor and an instantaneous duration, she may concentrate to keep the spell active.  On the round after she casts the spell, the pyromancer may spend a standard action to concentrate on the spell, and it is effectively cast a second time without expending an additional spell slot.  The spell must target the same area or target, otherwise the attempt fails.

She may continue to activate this ability each round thereafter, and may use it a number of rounds on any given spell equal to one third her class level.  So a 7th level pyromancer could concentrate on continuing the spell for two rounds, and she could concentrate for three rounds at 9th level.

This ability follows the normal rules for concentrating on a spell if the pyromancer is damaged during this time.

Thick Smoke (Su): This ability functions exactly as the Smoke ability, except that the cloud of smoke grants full concealment (50%), and if the target fails their Fortitude save, they are nauseated.  The target is sickened even on a successful save.

Cloud of Smoke (Su): At 13th level, the pyromancer may fill the entire area of a spell she casts with the fire descriptor with smoke.  This smoke is treated either as the Smoke ability or Thick Smoke ability (chosen at the time the spell is cast), and lasts a number of rounds equal to her class level.

Incendiary Smoke (Su): This ability functions exactly like Cloud of Smoke, and in addition, the smoke deals 4d6 points of fire damage to anyone inside.  This damage is dealt when the spell is cast and at the beginning of the pyromancer’s turn.  A creature that passes through the smoke and doesn’t begin or end their turn in the area also takes 4d6 points of fire damage.

I'm particularly curious what you think of the pyromancer's Lingering Flame ability.  At this point, I'm largely looking to fill levels 1-3, every odd level thereafter, and 20th level.  Those are the levels that they don't get a new spell level.  I'm fine leaving the even levels 4 - 18 dead, because the spells are the biggest feature for these classes.

[VennDygrem]

Is Lingering Flame supposed to take the place of the other classes' mobility options? If not, and you're seeking something, you might consider something akin to, well, teleporting a short distance, and the point you leave and that you appear in results in either a cloud of smoke in adjacent squares with some effect, or even a burst of flames in adjacent squares. That, or something like Tree Stride, except with open flames. Just a couple ideas.

[archangel.arcanis]

No love for the Hydro?

Pyro seems a fair bit stronger than the other 2 as well.
Geo. I like the earth movement abilities as well as the scaling DR, though i do think it scales a bit slow.
Aero. needs a reason to not PrC out at 11. There really is nothing once you get flight. They also suffer a distinct lack of offensive class abilities right now too.
They all need a capstone to work toward, like gaining the elemental type or many of its traits. I would also like to see some of those traits gained through out the levels. In particular the Geo should develop crit resistance.

[RobbyPants]

Lingering Flame is supposed to preserve spell slots spent on blasting.  So, at 7th level, you could cast Fireball for 7d6 damage (costing a 3rd level slot) and then concentrate on it for up to two more rounds (standard action each round) and deal 7d6 damage again each round in the same area, without expending another spell slot.

I did write up a handful of other spells that I haven't posted yet.  I'm still working out the spell lists.  One of the pyromancer's spells involved long range teleporting via flames (think Tree Stride, but with fire).

[RobbyPants]

No love for the Hydro?

Not yet.  It's just getting late and I didn't have enough ideas to bother posting anything yet.  I'm still trying to see if the spell list is good enough without adding in healing.

Pyro seems a fair bit stronger than the other 2 as well.

I think you're right, but I also added a bunch of abilities to it right before posting.  I wanted it to be a solid blaster, but I'm hoping I didn't add in too much crowd control with the smoke.

Geo. I like the earth movement abilities as well as the scaling DR, though i do think it scales a bit slow.

I based the DR on the dread necro.  What more do you think it needs?

Aero. needs a reason to not PrC out at 11. There really is nothing once you get flight. They also suffer a distinct lack of offensive class abilities right now too.
They all need a capstone to work toward, like gaining the elemental type or many of its traits. I would also like to see some of those traits gained through out the levels. In particular the Geo should develop crit resistance.

At this point, it's not complete, so it's supposed to keep getting abilities past 11th level.  I'm just not sure what, yet.  I don't think it needs any more flight.  I was actually thinking about giving them the Teleport spells on their list, so perhaps some form of jaunting would be nice.  I was also toying with some form of DR or miss chance against ranged attacks.  This would make them quite handy if they can use their mobility to simply stay out of melee.

[archangel.arcanis]

My best thought right now on the Geo DR is to have it scale 1 to 1 starting at lvl 5 thus it fits the normal dr15 at about lvl 20 and will not require any work to send into epic.

I think short range teleports at Spl would work, definitely nothing beyond Dim. Door range though. then it would take travel out of traveling.

[VennDygrem]

Have you considered any shared class abilities, varying almost only depending on the chosen element? For instance, Stratovarius's Elementalist boosts spell DC and spell penetration by 1 at certain levels for spells on their spell list (which consists entirely of spells with the Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Acid, Cold, and Electricity descriptors- in fact, I'm certain I have a fairly well-compiled, though not necessarily complete, list of those spells somewhere), and another feature grants increased str and con to elemental creatures summoned via spells.

There are other similar types of shared abilities that might work, too, so that way all the classes are united in a way.

[RobbyPants]

My best thought right now on the Geo DR is to have it scale 1 to 1 starting at lvl 5 thus it fits the normal dr15 at about lvl 20 and will not require any work to send into epic.

There's pros and cons to that progression.  I like the one I have in that you get something right at level 2, when DR is pretty meaningful.  Your progression offers half-again the protection at 20th level.  Both can scale into epic because the rate of advancement is +2 DR every four levels.

I think short range teleports at Spl would work, definitely nothing beyond Dim. Door range though. then it would take travel out of traveling.

I'm thinking of having Dimension Door and both Teleports be on the spell list, and then perhaps a fairly short range teleport (base land speed or 60' or something) as a move action, but requiring line of effect.  It lets you get through crowded areas safely, but it doesn't by-pass sections of a dungeon or anything.

Have you considered any shared class abilities, varying almost only depending on the chosen element? For instance, Stratovarius's Elementalist boosts spell DC and spell penetration by 1 at certain levels for spells on their spell list (which consists entirely of spells with the Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Acid, Cold, and Electricity descriptors- in fact, I'm certain I have a fairly well-compiled, though not necessarily complete, list of those spells somewhere),

I'm not sure about DC and penetration boosts as other focused casters don't usually get these.  If you do find that list, I'd like to see it.  It might make my life easier with polishing the spell list.

and another feature grants increased str and con to elemental creatures summoned via spells.

There are other similar types of shared abilities that might work, too, so that way all the classes are united in a way.

I was thinking about boosting the elemental summons last night, too.  Perhaps they all get Augment Summoning as a bonus feat at level X, and maybe at some point, all elementals they summoning get Improved Natural Attack and Ability Focus. 

Also, should I consider boosting the familiar into a combat familiar, or is that too much?  Right now, they all get a small elemental at level 5.  I could easily say at level X it becomes medium, and continue the advancement accordingly.  I could also have the above-mentioned abilities apply to the familiar as well as summons.  I just don't want to over do it and end up creating four different themed druids.


I was also thinking yesterday that I'll likely have to create some of my own spells at higher level to fill out those spell lists.  How does something like this sound for a 9th level fire spell?

Apocalypse of Flame
Range: 60'
Duration: 1 round per level
Save: Reflex halves
Spell Resistance: Yes

When you cast this spell, any squares you designate within the range burst into flames, dealing 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level.  A successful Reflex save halves the damage.  On a failed save, the creature catches fire.  You must have line of effect to each square you designate.

At the beginning each of your turns during the spell's duration, you may designate different squares to be affected.  The range is calculated off of your current position each round.

[Sohala]

Duration seems a little long.

[archangel.arcanis]

Duration seems a little long.

With it being uncapped and having good damage as well as duration based on CL it screams to be abused.

[VennDygrem]

Also, how many squares are affected? It just says "any squares" which, being undefined, means as many squares as you want within range. That's a potential  14000-odd squares of doom. :O

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, at 18th level.  I guess it is, strictly speaking, better than Maw of Chaos.  Still, what do we want a 9th level blast spell to do?  I mean, these things are on par with Time Stop.  I'm not saying it's good as-is, but I know Meteor Swarm will not be my benchmark, and I'm not sure if I want Maw of Chaos to be my benchmark, either.

What if the duration were Instantaneous?  Of course, combined with Lingering Flames, you could keep it going up to seven rounds. O_o

[Sohala]

Make it three rounds without concentration, and then lingering can do seven for a total of 10.

[RobbyPants]

Lingering Flame only works if the duration is instantaneous.  The idea is you can "re-cast" with a standard action, but without spending more spell slots.  It's also restrictive in that you have to target the same area or creature.


What kinds of things should be unique to the hydromancer?  I figured a swim speed and aquatic subtype and all for sure.  Sadly, there aren't a lot of actual water spells, so I might have to write up some of my own.  At this point, it feels more like an acid/ice mage more than anything else.  I'll have to give the Wu Jen spell list a good look-through.

[archangel.arcanis]

Healing is one that goes with Hydro. As would be dehydration spells like Horrid Wilting and Extract Water Elemental. I think there is a desiccate spell in sandstorm too. If you feel like letting them break the economy flesh to salt could work as a dehydration spell as well (effectively flesh to stone with the ability to sell the stone for game purposes)

Create water is an obvious choice of class ability. Some purification spells would make sense as well.

[veekie]

Hmm, the Apocalypse of Flame needs to be able to get big...

[Sohala]

Lingering Flame only works if the duration is instantaneous.  The idea is you can "re-cast" with a standard action, but without spending more spell slots.  It's also restrictive in that you have to target the same area or creature.

I should read better, make it instantaneous.

[RobbyPants]

Hmm, the Apocalypse of Flame needs to be able to get big...

My first thought was the 15th level ability of Frank's Fire Mage, which goes for line of sight.  You can literally go horizon to horizon.  I didn't want it that big, though.

We'll have to see how much work I can do over the holiday weekend.

[veekie]

^^
I like the way he thinks. Thinking more along the lines of an expanding AoE every round though.
So start as a 30ft radius ball and then double radius every round.