OOC Chat

[veekie]

There are ways however, take a look at the Pathfinder Witch class, which is essentially low intensity or conditional, frequently used At Will abilities mixed in with more regular spellcasting.

[RobbyPants]

Just to give an example of what I was thinking:

The Pyromancer would have a crap-ton of [FIRE] spells, as well as stuff like Wall of Smoke and Stinking Cloud (smoke), and I was even thinking of making a few new spells to round it out, like Transport Via Plants Flame.  They'd cast like sorcerers, but have access to their full list.

On top of that, I'd give them Produce Flame at will, because thats only 1d6+1 damage at 1st level, and they have to blow a standard action to cast again after the duration wears off, but the range is 120 feet.  That stops being relevant pretty quickly, but by that time, they have higher level spells.

The only downside I've seen to this approach is that I'm pulling over half of some of the spell lists from the Spell Compendium, and that might turn others off.  I guess for my own games, it works just fine!

Also, the Geomancer will definitely be more spell-based, but I still want to add in the toughness aspect from this class.

[archangel.arcanis]

the big issue is for anything but fire having enough spells to pull from. Almost all the other elements have been sadly neglected or are the same spell as a lower level on but with a slight twist and higher damage cap.

[veekie]

The trick to use with things as focused as an elemental caster is to make use of the occult associations(water with healing is one, but also earth with protection magic, fire with emotion(rage, lust), air with travel, etc) to construct the spell lists and round out the gaps by providing a list of at will/encounter elemental masteries they can pick up at various levels(since the spell list is static, no harm having variable picks for their personalised powers right?).

Elemental inversions complete it, they might gain their inverted element effects a level late, perhaps, so fire goes to cold, water with dessication, earth with disintegration, air with immobility. Thematically, you can grant the element, you can also withdraw it.

[RobbyPants]

I actually had thought of stuff like Haste for fire.  I suppose I could run with that and use stuff like Slow for earth.

I wasn't sure if healing was going to be needed for water or not.  I'm adding a lot more [COLD] stuff to the Hydromancer than I did with the current class.  If I did, I'd consider using the Vigor line of healing spells, as well as the Restoration spells.  I might not need to, though.

Air gets a lot of mobility stuff as well as a decent amount of fog spells and other wind effects.  I was toying with giving them Telekinesis, but I don't want to give them much in the way of [FORCE].  TK could be re-flavored to be wind pushes.

Also, all of them will be summoning as early as 6th level (Summon Monster III).

[RobbyPants]

Sorry that I've been taking so long with this.  I've actually got most of the spell list set, but I wanted to tweak it.  If I find the time tonight, I may post it for critiquing.

Also, if those classes look promising, how would you guys feel about testing those?  I feel bad, though, having you put all the work into these classes only to have you abandon them.  Also, do you want to try some more mid/high level stuff with these classes?  I haven't put too much thought into encounters lately.

[Sohala]

I would be willing.

As to these classes, they do need some higher level of play, I would think like 9 and 15 would be okay. Both hit on feat levels for more stuff.

[archangel.arcanis]

I consider it more testing. We just so happened to do a redesign between alpha (current lay out) and beta (new shiny warmage style) versions of the classes. 

[veekie]

Yeah, likewise.

[VennDygrem]

Yeah, to be perfectly honest, I wasn't initially expecting to test the classes at each individual level anyway. I expected to test at certain landmarks, jumping a few levels at a time.

[RobbyPants]

Jumping a few at a time does sound a lot better.  Also, given the casting format, there's little reason to test odd numbered levels other than 1st level.  Really, picking up new spells is going to be what defines the class.

[VennDygrem]

So, are we moving forward with new versions of the classes, or these ones?

[RobbyPants]

I guess it depends on what you guys think.

I don't have time to set up a new encounter quite yet.  By the time I do, I could probably post the spell lists for critiquing instead.  Fleshing out the class features will be pretty easy, as I have these classes to draw from.  I'll likely hand out stuff on the odd levels and level 2 and 20 (when you don't get a new spell level).

[archangel.arcanis]

I'm fine with the new classes being our next step.

[veekie]

Fine either way, but I do still advocate some selectable class features.

[RobbyPants]

Like what?  I like the idea of Advanced Learning, but I'm not sure there are the spells available that aren't already on the list.

[veekie]

Naw, screw Advanced Learning. Like the option to shop between a Fog Cloud SLA, a wider Grease slick of ice, or a Water Mastery ability instead of gaining static powers at those levels.
One Elemental mage is going to look much like another when they have the exact same spell list and special abilities each level.

[RobbyPants]

I'll have to see what it looks like.  At this point, I wasn't planning on too many choices, but it might not be that hard to pull off.

[RobbyPants]

Okay, it took me longer to get this than I'd hoped.  I still haven't polished it yet, but I figured I could at least bounce it off you at this point.  For instance, I may or may not want to add healing to the Hydromancer, but I haven't at this point.  Again, remember that the classes would get full access to the spell list and cast as a sorcerer.  There would also be class features added.  For instance, I figured on letting the Pyromancer use Produce Flame at will at 1st level.

I also added in a few psionic powers as spells (assuming a number of PP spent equal to caster level.  I added three spells to the pyromancer that I made up, but I haven't really fleshed that out.  I will likely make up spells for the other classes too, to fill in any holes.

Anyway, here it is:



Aeromancer Spell List

Level 1: Create Sound ^A, Expeditious Retreat, Detect Magic, Lesser Sound Orb ^SC, Obscuring Mist, Remove Scent ^SC, Sonic Blast ^SC

Level 2: Binding Winds ^SC, Cloud of Bewilderment ^SC, Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, Ironthunder Horn ^SC, Levitate, Malevolent Miasma ^SC, Shatter, Sonic Weapon ^SC, Swift Fly ^SC, Whispering Wind

Level 3: Avoid Planar Effects ^SC, ^E, Call Lightning, Capricious Zephyr ^SC, Creaking Cacophony ^SC, Dispel Magic, Fly, Gaseous Form, Great Thunderclap ^SC, Resonating Bolt ^SC, Shattefloor ^SC, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster III ^E, Wind Wall

Level 4: Arc of Lightning ^SC, Defenestrating Sphere ^SC, Eye of the Hurricane ^SC, Murderous Mist ^SC, Orb of Sound ^SC, Shout, Solid Fog, Summon Monster IV ^E, Wind at Back ^SC

Level 5: Cacophonic Burst ^SC, Cacophonic Shield ^SC, Call Lightning Storm, Cloudkill, Control Winds, Overland Flight, Planar Tolerance ^SC,^E, Plane Shift ^E, Summon Monster V ^E, Telekinesis, Wind Tunnel ^SC

Level 6: Acid Fog, Freezing Fog ^SC, Greater Dispel Magic, Summon Monster VI ^E, Thunder Field ^P2

Level 7: Control Weather, Storm Tower ^SC, Summon Monster VII ^E, Wind Walk

Level 8: Greater Plane Shift ^SC, ^E, Greater Shout, Lightning Ring ^SC, Summon Monster VIII ^E, Whirlwind

Level 9: Elemental Swarm ^E, Greater Whirlwind ^SC, Magic Miasma ^SC, Storm of Vengeance, Summon Monster IX ^E, Towering Thunderhead <sup>CM

* - New spell described below.
A– as an arcane spell.  Treat as having spent a number of power points up to the caster level.
E – air creatures only, or elemental plane of air only
SC – Spell Compendium
P2 – Player’s Handbook II</sup>

Geomancer Spell List

Level 1: Detect Magic, Fist of Stone ^SC, Foundation of Stone ^SC, Hail of Stone ^SC, Ironguts ^SC, Magic Stone, Sandblast ^SC

Level 2: Chill Metal, Earthbind ^SC, Earthfast ^SC, Earthen Grace ^SC, Earthen Grasp ^SC, Earth Lock ^SC, Heat Metal, Soften Earth and Stone

Level 3: Avoid Planar Effects ^SC, ^E, Bands of Steel ^SC, Dispel Magic, Eradicate Earth ^SC, Giant’s Wrath ^SC, Meld into Stone, Shatterfloor ^SC, Spike Growth, Stone Shape, Summon Monster III ^E, Tremorsense ^SC

Level 4: Metal Melt ^SC, Stoneskin, Stone Sphere ^SC, Sudden Stalagmite ^SC, Summon Monster IV ^E, Wall of Sand ^SC

Level 5: Earth Reaver ^SC, Indomitablity ^SC, Lesser Ironguard ^SC, Passwall, Planar Tolerance ^SC,^E, Plane Shift ^E, Summon Monster V ^E, Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Stone, Xorn Movement ^SC

Level 6: Flesh to Stone, Genjump ^SC, Greater Dispel Magic, Move Earth, Stone Body ^SC, Stone Tell, Stone to Flesh, Summon Monster VI ^E, Tunnel Swallow ^SC, Wall of Gears ^SC, Wall of Iron

Level 7: Glass Strike ^SC, Greater Stone Shape ^SC, Ironguard ^SC, Statue, Summon Monster VII ^E, Wrack Earth ^P2

Level 8: Bombardment ^SC, Deadly Lahar ^CM, Earthquake, Excavate ^SC, Greater Plane Shift ^SC, ^E, Iron Body, Repel Metal or Stone, Summon Monster VIII ^E

Level 9: Cast in Stone ^SC, Elemental Swarm ^E, Imprisonment, Summon Monster IX ^E, Transmute Rock to Lava ^SC, Undermaster <sup>SC

* - New spell described below.
A – as an arcane spell.  Treat as having spent a number of power points up to the caster level.
E –earth creatures only, or elemental plane of earth only
SC – Spell Compendium
P2 – Player’s Handbook II</sup>

Hydromancer Spell List

Level 1: Animate Water ^SC, Detect Magic, Grease (Ice), Ice Dagger ^SC, Lesser Orb of Acid ^SC, Obscuring Mist, Snowshoes ^SC, Wings of the Sea ^SC, Winter Chill ^SC

Level 2: Creeping Cold ^SC, Fog Cloud, Frost Breath ^SC, Ice Knife ^SC, Inky Cloud ^SC, Swim ^SC, Winter’s Embrace ^SC

Level 3: Avoid Planar Effects ^SC, ^E, Dehydrate ^SC, Dispel Magic, Icelance ^SC, Rust Ray ^SC, Sink ^SC, Sleet Storm, Summon Monster III ^E, Water Breathing

Level 4: Blight, Eye of the Hurricane ^SC, Greater Creeping Cold ^SC, Ice Storm, Mass Swim ^SC, Orb of Acid ^SC, Raise from the Deep ^SC, Rusting Grasp, Solid Fog, Summon Monster IV ^E, Wall of Ice, Wall of Water ^SC

Level 5: Acid Sheath ^SC, Cloak of the Sea ^SC, Cone of Cold, Fireward ^SC, Ice Flowers ^SC, Planar Tolerance ^SC,^E, Plane Shift ^E, Summon Monster V ^E, Swap Stride ^SC

Level 6: Acid Fog, Control Water, Drown ^SC, Extract Water Elemental ^SC, Freezing Sphere, Greater Dispel Magic, Summon Monster VI ^E, Tidal Surge ^SC

Level 7: Ice Claw ^SC, Submerge Ship ^SC, Summon Monster VII ^E, Swamp Lung ^SC, Waterspout ^SC

Level 8: Field of Icy Razors ^SC, Greater Plane Shift ^SC, ^E, Maelstrom ^SC, Polar Ray, Red Tide ^SC, Summon Monster VIII ^E

Level 9: Elemental Swarm ^E, Mass Drown ^SC, Obedient Avalanche ^SC, Storm of Vengeance, Summon Monster IX ^E, Tsunami <sup>SC

* - New spell described below.
A – as an arcane spell.  Treat as having spent a number of power points up to the caster level.
E – water creatures only, or elemental plane of water only
SC – Spell Compendium</sup>

Pyromancer Spell List

Level 1: Animate Fire ^SC, Burning Hands, Control Flames ^A, Dancing Lights, Detect Flames^*, Detect Magic, Endure Elements, Faerie Fire, Lesser Orb of Fire ^SC, Raging Flame ^SC, Slow Burn ^SC, Wall of Smoke ^SC

Level 2: Combust ^SC, Continual Flame, Fireburst ^SC, Fire Trap, Flaming Sphere, Flashburst ^SC, Heat Metal, Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray

Level 3: Avoid Planar Effects ^SC, ^E, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Energy Retort ^A,^E, Fireball, Firesight ^*, Flame Arrow, Stinking Cloud, Summon Monster III ^E,

Level 4: Air Walk, Blast of Flame ^SC, Fire Shield (Warm Shield), Fire Stride ^SC, Flame Strike, Flame Whips ^SC, Orb of Fire ^SC, Summon Monster IV ^E, Wall of Fire

Level 5: Cloudkill, Energy Current ^A,^E, Fiery Discorporation ^A, Firebrant ^SC, Greater Firebusrt ^SC,  Mass Fire Shield (Warm Shield) ^SC, Permanency, Planar Tolerance ^SC,^E, Plane Shift ^E, Summon Monster V ^E,

Level 6: Fire Seeds, Fire Spiders ^SC, Greater Dispel Magic, Summon Monster VI ^E, Transport via Fire ^*

Level 7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Fire Storm, Summon Monster VII ^E,

Level 8: Deadly Lahar ^CM, Greater Plane Shift ^SC, ^E, Incendiary Cloud, Summon Monster VIII ^E,

Level 9: Elemental Swarm ^E, Summon Monster IX ^E,

^{* - New spell described below.
A– as an arcane spell.  Treat as having spent a number of power points up to the caster level.
E – fire energy type only, fire creatures only, or elemental plane of air only
SC – Spell Compendium
CM – Complete Mage}


New Pyromancer Spells

Detect Flames:
Level 1
As Detect Animals and Plants, except you detect fires in the area, mundane or magical.

1st round
Presence or absence of fire.

2nd round
Number of fires in the area.

3rd round
The size of each fire and its nature (mundane or magical).  If it is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.


Firesight:
Level 3
As Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, except the sensor must be place in a flame within the spell’s range.  If you target a general area, the sensor is placed in the nearest flame within range with line of affect to the targeted area.  If no flames are available, the spell fails.


Transport via Fire:
Level 6
As Transport via Plants, except you enter into and exit from a fire of your size or larger.

[Sohala]

Lightning bolt for air.
Earthbolt for earth.
I think there is some sort of flying fire spell...can't think of the name.