OOC Chat

[VennDygrem]

Keep in mind that the spiked chain fellow has reach, so don't get too close to that door. Taking him out is probably going to be a pain.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

I kinda hoped we'd tag him while he'd right in front of me, you and aepa.
AaaaaaaaahI see what you did there.

[VennDygrem]

If Grizz clears out of the blast zone, incoming AoE should parbroil the two meaty guys. Chainer is buggered coz he can't leave his room now.

Not sure he cares since he's got 20 feet of reach now. >_>

[veekie]

Room size says we're at an advantage since 20ft can't cover the whole room and 25ft is in range for point blank shot.

[VennDygrem]

Ah, sorry! I was just asking about the movement, didn't actually intend to move there! Not because I care about the missed attack, but because I'm trying to stay our of the doorway.

Plus, Thorden would be blocking the door, which isn't good for him in his blinded state.
How long's that last, anyway?

[VennDygrem]

I'll be limited in posting from the 2nd through the 6th, but mostly the 5th and 6th.

[VennDygrem]

If I've learned anything from these latest encounters, it's that no matter how tough you try to make a mage, he still isn't a front-line fighter. Not without some serious magic to back him up.

You might try to argue that rushing in and trying to attack is what caused it, but he would have gotten his AoO from pretty much anywhere I could have done anything. The only other option from that is running away and doing nothing, but that's not exactly an option here.

[archangel.arcanis]

I'll likely be out of contact again for a while. Baby went back into the hospital today after her regular cardiologist appointment. Looks like she will need to be on heart meds until her first big surgery and will need a feeding tube put in to get her up to weight for that surgery. We will find out whether of not we are heading back to New Orleans by tomorrow afternoon.

[RobbyPants]

I hope everything goes well.

[archangel.arcanis]

Well i'm finishing up the last packing for us to go to New Orleans today as they will be performing both heart surgery and inserting a feeding tube. They sent their transport helo to pick up our daughter at about 8 am so they should be here soon. Once she is off we will be following suit and driving there. I'll have internet and likely need the distraction once in the Ronald McDonald house over there so i'll try and post then.

[RobbyPants]

I'll delay since i have no idea what just happened.

Go figure!  The guy with no ranks in Spellcraft happens to be the same guy who gets to act after the guy who jaunted.

[VennDygrem]

So, how are we feeling about these encounters? About the classes?

(Sorry if I've been getting cranky. I've been under a lot of stress the past couple months)

As far as the geomancer goes, Shift Weight is a great addition to its arsenal, allowing geos to finally start specializing between ranged or close combat. Spikes, however, is situational, much like the caltrops it emulates. In comparison to, say, the hydromancer, however, I'd say it's not quite as useful a tool as their level 3 utility power (fog), and certainly doesn't scale well in later levels the same. If maybe the size of the spike field grew with level, it might be more useful. As it is, an enemy can usually just go around a single 5-ft square especially if you're able to lay it at a range. Usually with caltrops, you're either laying them out ahead of time, or adjacent or near an enemy, and you're more likely to get them having to move over them.
Still, given the useful (for melee combat) shift weight, I can hardly complain.

[archangel.arcanis]

perhaps an optional radius of spikes around the Geo could fix that. Since the class is designed to get into melee then putting it adjacent to you and it moving with could make it more useful.

A quick evaluation of the Aero is that it sucks only being able to deal subdual damage as your primary. I feel useless vs undead/constructs/plants in most cases  and there is normally not much i can do about it. The lightning is my first real damaging weapon and with it only once per encounter right now i'm hesitant to use it unless i can set up multiple hits. The wind push is made of win however. That level of utility and consistency for battlefield control is where i feel i am the most help to the group. Overall i'm liking what we have and am enjoying the character. It is only certain fights where i feel like i'm the weak link in the party and even then i should be able to find some way to contribute, most likely by pushing enemies into a better position for my allies.

[RobbyPants]

It's funny you asked, because I was thinking about it this morning.  Regarding the classes in general, the nature of at will blasting and healing seems to make simple HP attrition battles relatively easy.  So long as the group can survive the encounter, future encounters will be met at full strength.  Although you can't yet cope with ability damage or long duration penalties.  In order to pose a remote challenge, I feel I need to ramp up the encounter challenge a bit.  This isn't a bad thing for this group, but I'm not sure how well these classes would mix in with a party of other classes.  I have ideas for how I might tone these classes down for integrating, but it's kind of a moot point right now, anyway.

As for the specific classes, I have to agree about the spikes ability.  Caltrops themselves really aren't that great.  I was looking at the 6th level Earthen Rubble ability (creates multiple squares of rough terrain), and I wonder if that would be a better 3rd level ability.  Of course, I'd need a new 6th level ability, then.  If we keep spikes at 3rd level, there are things that could be done to make them work better.  Perhaps a flat out Fort or Ref save to avoid the effect would work better, rather than the caltrop's static +0 attack mod.

I also have mixed feelings about the Aeromancer.  As written, if these classes were adopted, I could totally see Aeromancer handbooks giving advice on how to effectively play a low-level areomancer.  To me, this means that the class can pull its weight only if you play it the right way, and that screams bad design to me.  Should the Aeromancer and Hydromancer have some way to deal lethal damage right off the bat at level 1?  Perhaps it scales slower than the other two classes, but at least gives them some benefit.  One option could be allowing the Aeromancer to use wind to buff his ranged attacks, which let him use physical damage, but with some boost, similar to Shift Weight.  Perhaps an accuracy bonus to attack rolls would help offset making a non-touch attack with poor BAB.

Any thoughts?

[Sohala]

Maybe a single ranged attack getting extra damage and accuracy, limited to range by the weapon and not ablilty. Even with a higher BAB I would think a single attack would still fit better.

A Fort/Ref save for the caltrops sounds like a good idea as well. I did also like the increased area.

[RobbyPants]

I do think the increased area would be a good thing, too.

[veekie]

Seconding the pure subdual issue, even a d4 variant that hits for lethal would save them from being as crippled as a rogue against undead and constructs. The other option of course, is to allow Aeromancers to push opponents into surfaces(ala dungeoncrasher) for damage, or upthrust them so they fall. I figure this is thematically more fitting to the Aeromancer unless you're using some kind of air cutter effect.
Increased range and effectiveness for Aeromancers are also very cool, they are the one sort that could be expected to have more range than the other 'mancers. Mixing that with archery or other missile attacks is a nice touch. Maybe a +level to the damage of missile/thrown attacks and +1/4 level to hit? And a CL check to ignoring the effect of wind wall, solid fog vs their ranged attacks.
Hydromancers might make do with instant river/wall of water effects(though that still doesn't deal with the Con-less), but the reduced damage version is easier to fit thematically, what with the hot, corrosive and ice variations of water.
Steam and raw water fit well for subdual at range, while ice and acid bolts can certainly do real damage, even if the former is more by impact than temperature, ala crystal shard.

As for my side, the Hydromancer's steam blast is somewhat nifty, but the elemental variation doesn't seem to matter that much at these low levels due to the lack of resistances to worry about. The short range cone is a concern though, since after blasting you'd be very definitely in melee range, or worse, charge range. That shouldn't be a problem once the upgrades roll in though.
The fog is dead useful, but I wind up deriving most of my battlefield control abilities off my expendable magic items instead. The Create Water power is a bit disappointing though, since the create water spell gets far more water per action.

I wonder how we'd fare against mixed encounters of enemies and traps though.

[archangel.arcanis]

Posting from phone so keeping short.

Emotional roller coaster continues. Baby girl's surgery got moved then postponed this week. Finally it was this morning and they bailed on it after she was in the OR. She was doing too good and they didn't want to risk the complications if they can skip this one and do the 2nd in set early.

[RobbyPants]

Here are some rough tentative write ups.  If we can agree on a few additions/changes, then I'll start encounter 17.  I just figured I'd address these things first:

Stone Spikes:
Change from caltrop effect to opponent makes a Reflex save or move at half speed and cannot charge.  An opponent only needs to save once per turn that they're in the area, even if they move through multiple squares.  The penalty lasts until they leave the spikes, plus one round per caster level.  The area is one contiguous five-foot square per caster level.


Wind Propelled Shot:
At 1st level, the Aeromancer can use wind to increase the effectiveness of his ranged attacks.  As a move action, he can boost the next ranged attack that he makes with a physical weapon this round.  The boosted attack gains an enhancement bonus to attack rolls equal to one, plus one per five caster levels.  The weapon also deals an extra 1d6 points of damage per three caster levels.  This extra damage is considered to be the same type(s) dealt by the weapon.  This power can be used at will.


Hail Stone:
At 1st level, the Hydromancer can launch a ball of ice at a target with an attack roll (not a touch attack).  The power has a range of medium (100 feet + 10 per caster level) and deals 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage per caster level.  This power bypasses spell resistance and can be used at will.


I don't want to blur these classes too close together.  Originally I was thinking the non-lethal-only aspect of the Aeromancer and Hydromancer would be kind of cool, but it is annoyingly limited.  Hopefully these don't go too far.  The modification to Stone Spikes does make the Earthen Rubble ability less attractive.

[archangel.arcanis]

Worst wake up call ever this morning. Baby girl is going in for the surgery they bailed on yesterday. We rushed through New Orleans traffic and construction because we thought they were wheeling her into the OR while we were on the phone with the surgeon. We have been here for a while and we are still waiting for them to finish preping her for surgery.