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Author Topic: What is missing from this wizard's spell list?  (Read 1175 times)
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« on: May 23, 2010, 07:51:35 PM »

Playing an ultimate magus focused transmuter, who is more of a blaster than he probably should be (I know, it's not optimal, but it's entertaining, and neither of our fighters are particularly optimized).  He makes good use of Fiery Burst, and generally focuses on divination with a strong sidelight in maximized orbs. Banned schools are Abjuration, Necromancy and Enchantment.  Next level I am picking up Dispel Magic and probably Phantom Steed on the Knight side (CL will be high enough on that side to activate Flight on the steed) and 4 spells of up to 6th level on the wizard side, along with Control Weather (automatic from a feat).  I plan to grab Scalding Mud (Sand126) to power Fiery Burst, and maybe True Seeing or Dragonsight, but I am up in the air for the rest. Feel free to suggest lower-level spells.

EDIT: All WotC non-setting books and all FR books are allowed. No Dragon or Web. Desert-themed spells from other sources may be allowed upon DM consideration (hence the Dark Sun spells).

Wizard -
First:
Burning Hands * (evo)   
Lesser Orb of Fire (conj) - SC151      
Blockade (conj) - Csco 95      
Unseen Servant (conj)      
Enlarge Person (tran)      
Silent Image (illus)      
Ebon Eyes (tran) -SC77         
Mage Armor (conj)   
Persistent Blade (evo) - SC154      
True Casting (div) - CM121   
Cooling Canopy (conj) - Dark Sun
Targetting Ray (div) - SC219                              
Identify (div)                              
Mount (conj)                           
Disguise Self (illus)                              
Grease (conj)                        
Scholar's Touch (div) - RoDest 167                              
True Strike (div)                           
Nerveskitter SC146 (tran)                              
Magic Missle (evo)                           
Comprehend Languages (div)

Second:
Pyrotechnics (tran) *         
Scorching Ray (evo)      
Heart of Air (CM106 tran)         
Alter Self (tran)         
Rope Trick (tran)
Eye of the Storm (tran) - Dark Sun
Blur (illus)
Web (conj)                           
Belker Claws (tran) - SC26                        
Create Magical Tattoo (conj)                              
Locate Object (div)                              
Darkvision (tran)                              
See Invisible (div)                           

Third:
Fireball * (evo)         
Dragonskin (tran)      
Phantom Steed (conj)      
Heart of Water (CM107 tran)      
Invisibility Sphere (illus)
Haste (tran)                           
Shadow Phase (tran) - SC185                           
Gaseous Sandform (tran)                              
Tongues (div)                        
Sand Pit (Tran) - Dark Sun

Fourth:
Wall of Fire * (evo)      
Heart of Earth (CM106 tran)
Orb of Fire (SC151 conj)   
Bright Worms (PHBII 105 conj)      
Sandform (tran) - Sand119      
Detect Scrying (div)
Arcane Eye (div)                        
Defenestrating Sphere (evo) - sc62                        
Call of Stone (tran) - PHBII 105                        
Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer (tran)                           
Sand Spray (evo) - Dark Sun                     
Greater Mirror Image (ill) - PHBII p120                           
Solid Fog (conj) - PHB281

Fifth:
Heart of Fire (CM107 tran)   
Ball Lightning (conj) - SC23         
Mass Fly (tran)
Transmute Stone to Sand (tran) - Sand125      
Sand Trap (tran) - Dark Sun      
Teleport (conj)
Flaywind Burst (evo) - Sand115

Knight of the Weave -
First:
Cure Light Wounds
Lesser Restoration
Magic Missle
Blockade

Second:
Darkvision
See Invisibility
Alter Self
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 11:13:32 PM by Redeemer of Ogar » Logged
The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2010, 10:55:42 PM »

You're a blasting transmuter without telekinesis?  For shame.
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2010, 11:04:15 PM »

You're a blasting transmuter without telekinesis?  For shame.

*grin* Somehow I knew you'd say something like that.   Rolls Eyes

BTW, I assume you mostly use it for grapples, yes?
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2010, 11:14:26 PM »

You're a blasting transmuter without telekinesis?  For shame.

*grin* Somehow I knew you'd say something like that.   Rolls Eyes

BTW, I assume you mostly use it for grapples, yes?

Nah, he mostly uses it to chuck greatswords (or colossal sianghams if that's your thing) coated in poison at people.
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2010, 11:18:43 PM »

 Laugh

OH dear. He must have Nodwick as a cohort!   

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CyMage
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2010, 12:24:12 AM »

Quick question, how are you picking up Dispel Magic with Abjuration banned?
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2010, 12:37:22 AM »

Quick question, how are you picking up Dispel Magic with Abjuration banned?

Abjuration is prohibited to me as a wizard. It is not prohibited to me as a Knight of the Weave. At least, that is how I understand multi-classed specialists. Can you point me to any text that invalidates this understanding?
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CyMage
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2010, 12:39:31 AM »

No, I think you're correct.  It's late and the actual classes/build wasn't easily visible to me.  I mostly saw 'Banned Abjuration' and 'picking up Dispel Magic'. 
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2010, 01:11:00 AM »

No, I think you're correct.  It's late and the actual classes/build wasn't easily visible to me.  I mostly saw 'Banned Abjuration' and 'picking up Dispel Magic'. 
That's fair, it wasn't a build post so I didn't go all out on the detail. For the interested, I'm running a Silverbrow Human Wizard 5 (focused transmuter)/Knight of the Weave 1/Ultimate Magus 5 (soon to be 6). Meeting KotW pre-req with Spontaneous Divination at Wiz5.
Feats are Calishite Elementalist, Fiery Burst, Residual Metamagic, Extend Spell, Collegiate Wizard, Maximize Spell, Practical Metamagic (Maximize), Sudden Widen. I plan to pick up Versatile Spellcaster next level.
All-day spells are Mage Armor, Heart of Air, Water, Earth and Fire, Detect Scrying, and 3x Create Magic Tattoo (currently +2 to all saves, +1 Luck to Hit, +2 Competence to Hit. Next level I'm dropping the +1 Luck to Hit for +1 caster level).
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2010, 01:46:48 AM »

Laugh

OH dear. He must have Nodwick as a cohort!   


Nah, I just carry around a pocket universe full of weapons.

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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2010, 02:34:06 AM »

I have been playing too much Final fantasy Tactics, thought that was Delita for a minute there...
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Hitoshura
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2010, 04:09:24 PM »

I find the idea interesting, anyone up to analyze my spell list too?

Focused Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Malconvoker 5

Gray Elf, Has Otherwordly and Collegiate Wizard [DM allowed 1 flaw, but forbid Planar Binding Abuse]

Forbidden Schools: Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy

[Level 1] = Babau Slime, Benign Transposition, Eyes of The Avoral, Enlarge Person, Grease, Guided Shot, Obscuring Mist, Neveskitter, Ray of Clumsiness, Silent Image, Summon Monster I, Sticky Floor, Treacherous Weapon, True Strike, Wall of Smoke.
[Level 2] = Alter Self, Create Magic Tatoo, Chain of Eyes, Detect Thoughts, Eagle’s Splendor, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Web.
[Level 3] = Dimension Step, Haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, Mass Snake Swiftness, Phantom Steed, Ray of Dizyness, Sleeting Storm, Summon Monster III, Unluck
[Level 4] = Bestow Curse, Bloodstar, Dimension Door, Evard’s Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Summon Monster IV, Translocation Trick
[Level 5] = Draconic Polymorph, Mass Fly, Overland Flight, Prying Eyes, Summon Monster V, Telekinesis, Teleport, Wall of Stone
[Level 6] = Freezing Fog, Greater Dispel Magic, Summon Monster VI, Superior Resistance
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2010, 06:41:52 PM »

[Level 1] = Babau Slime, Benign Transposition, Eyes of The Avoral, Enlarge Person, Grease, Guided Shot, Obscuring Mist, Neveskitter, Ray of Clumsiness, Silent Image, Summon Monster I, Sticky Floor, Treacherous Weapon, True Strike, Wall of Smoke.
[Level 2] = Alter Self, Create Magic Tatoo, Chain of Eyes, Detect Thoughts, Eagle’s Splendor, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Web.
[Level 3] = Dimension Step, Haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, Mass Snake Swiftness, Phantom Steed, Ray of Dizyness, Sleeting Storm, Summon Monster III, Unluck
[Level 4] = Bestow Curse, Bloodstar, Dimension Door, Evard’s Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Summon Monster IV, Translocation Trick
[Level 5] = Draconic Polymorph, Mass Fly, Overland Flight, Prying Eyes, Summon Monster V, Telekinesis, Teleport, Wall of Stone
[Level 6] = Freezing Fog, Greater Dispel Magic, Summon Monster VI, Superior Resistance

Some definite overlap in here. Alter Self + Phantom Steed + Overland Flight + Draconic Polymorph all have overlap. Having every summon monster option might be overkill as well. I'm really surprised to see a conjurer not packing Orb of X, even at 11th level I get a LOT of mileage out of Lesser Orb of Fire, and that's probably the least effective of the lesser orbs. I'd happily trade in treacherous weapon, summon 1 or Wall of Smoke for one of the lesser orbs. I'm also not a fan of True Strike unless it is quickened.  Force effects would be nice also, though with Evo banned that list is much more limited - was there an Orb of Force? Hvae to check.  Are these your current spells on an active character, or a propsed list?
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Mixster
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2010, 07:52:36 PM »

You're a blasting transmuter without telekinesis?  For shame.

*grin* Somehow I knew you'd say something like that.   Rolls Eyes

BTW, I assume you mostly use it for grapples, yes?

Nah, he mostly uses it to chuck greatswords (or colossal sianghams if that's your thing) coated in poison at people.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to throw normal Sianghams coated in poison? You'd get 25*caster level attack rolls with that, much higher chance for applying that poison damage, or is it due to wanting to circumvent the damage reduction issue?

Oh and with 25*CL attacks, you'd just have to hope your DM don't play with some evil fumble table.

Quote
[Level 1] = Babau Slime, Benign Transposition, Eyes of The Avoral, Enlarge Person, Grease, Guided Shot, Obscuring Mist, Neveskitter, Ray of Clumsiness, Silent Image, Summon Monster I, Sticky Floor, Treacherous Weapon, True Strike, Wall of Smoke.
[Level 2] = Alter Self, Create Magic Tatoo, Chain of Eyes, Detect Thoughts, Eagle’s Splendor, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Web.
[Level 3] = Dimension Step, Haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, Mass Snake Swiftness, Phantom Steed, Ray of Dizyness, Sleeting Storm, Summon Monster III, Unluck
[Level 4] = Bestow Curse, Bloodstar, Dimension Door, Evard’s Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Summon Monster IV, Translocation Trick
[Level 5] = Draconic Polymorph, Mass Fly, Overland Flight, Prying Eyes, Summon Monster V, Telekinesis, Teleport, Wall of Stone
[Level 6] = Freezing Fog, Greater Dispel Magic, Summon Monster VI, Superior Resistance
No slow? A mass for or suck is very useful against many things. Also, both Mass snake swiftness and haste? I'm thinking of doing it in an archer party I'm about to play in, but I think they overlap.
Also, calm down on the summon monster spells, 2 and 5 isn't that good IIRC.

Apart from that, it looks awesome, I'll probably look to this when I write up my next spell list.

Perhaps we should make a whole topic for analyzing spell lists?
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2010, 08:06:31 PM »

Perhaps we should make a whole topic for analyzing spell lists?
Imo wizards are better off filling their spellbooks with all kind of spells and see what fits their playstyle. They can always buy scrolls to add to their book if they're missing some spells. That way you actually learn through experience what you wanna use and why certain spells are or aren't worth using. For sorcerers, this would be a great topic though. As for all the spontaneous casters.
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Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2010, 08:30:33 PM »

Perhaps we should make a whole topic for analyzing spell lists?
Imo wizards are better off filling their spellbooks with all kind of spells and see what fits their playstyle. They can always buy scrolls to add to their book if they're missing some spells. That way you actually learn through experience what you wanna use and why certain spells are or aren't worth using. For sorcerers, this would be a great topic though. As for all the spontaneous casters.

Also good for us wizards that spend most of our time behind enemy lines.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2010, 08:39:10 PM »


Wouldn't it be more efficient to throw normal Sianghams coated in poison? You'd get 25*caster level attack rolls with that, much higher chance for applying that poison damage, or is it due to wanting to circumvent the damage reduction issue?

Oh and with 25*CL attacks, you'd just have to hope your DM don't play with some evil fumble table.

You're limited to a number of objects equal to your CL.

If you're able to go beyond colossal size into colossal + or colossal ++, crossbow bolts get really awesome.

Of course, the ultimate technique is combining "full attack telekinesis" from MotUH with chain spell metamagic and hunter's eye, then going crazy with 84 sneak attacks per round.
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Hitoshura
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2010, 10:09:43 PM »

Quote
Some definite overlap in here. Alter Self + Phantom Steed + Overland Flight + Draconic Polymorph all have overlap. Having every summon monster option might be overkill as well. I'm really surprised to see a conjurer not packing Orb of X, even at 11th level I get a LOT of mileage out of Lesser Orb of Fire, and that's probably the least effective of the lesser orbs. I'd happily trade in treacherous weapon, summon 1 or Wall of Smoke for one of the lesser orbs. I'm also not a fan of True Strike unless it is quickened.  Force effects would be nice also, though with Evo banned that list is much more limited - was there an Orb of Force? Hvae to check.  Are these your current spells on an active character, or a propsed list?

Indeed, But they are all situational, i intend to use Alter Self to get a boost into natural Armor, and, of course, for Disguise, Phantom Steed is more for it's ridiculous speed at high levels, though for now it is indeed subpar, Overland Flight is just for awesomeness, i just can't see myself in the floor, Draconic Polymorph is for emergencies =X

Also, my Dexterity is kinda low, and i just don't like rolling attacks, so no orbs for me, i prefer to summon a bunch of Amnizus [God Bless Fiendish Summon Specialist] and Quickened Firebolt enemies to death, if blast is the intent...

These are my proposed list, still working on it, thanks for the tips.

Quote
No slow? A mass for or suck is very useful against many things. Also, both Mass snake swiftness and haste? I'm thinking of doing it in an archer party I'm about to play in, but I think they overlap.
Also, calm down on the summon monster spells, 2 and 5 isn't that good IIRC.

Apart from that, it looks awesome, I'll probably look to this when I write up my next spell list.

Perhaps we should make a whole topic for analyzing spell lists?
That's really a big flaw, gonna fix that right away!

About SM 5, d3+1 Voors are still too fun to play around against lesser enemies... SM 2 is lame indeed, gonna look for something better, SM 1 is nice for Benign Transposition and Trapmonkeys, though.

About the topic for analyzing spells, it's a fine idea, indeed, it always helps to optimize a little more, sometimes it makes the difference.

Reworked Spell List:
[Level 1] = Babau Slime, Benign Transposition, Eyes of The Avoral, Enlarge Person, Grease, Guided Shot, Obscuring Mist, Neveskitter, Ray of Clumsiness, Silent Image, Summon Monster I, Sticky Floor, Treacherous Weapon, True Strike, Wall of Smoke.
[Level 2] Alter Self, Create Magic Tatoo, Chain of Eyes, Detect Thoughts, Greater Slide, Glitterdust, Rope Trick, Web.
[Level 3] Dimension Step, Haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, Mass Snake Swiftness, Ray of Dizyness, Sleeting Storm, Slow, Summon Monster III, Unluck
[Level 4] Bloodstar, Dimension Door, Evard’s Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Summon Monster IV, Translocation Trick, Voice of The Dragon
[Level 5]  Draconic Polymorph, Mass Fly, Overland Flight, Prying Eyes, Summon Monster V, Telekinesis, Teleport, Wall of Stone
[Level 6] Freezing Fog, Greater Dispel Magic, Summon Monster VI, Superior Resistance
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 10:11:28 PM by Hitoshura » Logged
Redeemer of Ogar
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2010, 10:31:27 PM »

So other than telekinesis and the fact that I'm a blaster...    What spell type do you think I'm going to be shooting myself for not taking somewhere in the middle of next level?
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