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Author Topic: Races, Lifespans, CR and World Building[3.x]  (Read 1321 times)
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Senevri
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« on: February 23, 2010, 07:26:24 AM »

Humans live a few decades, gnomes and dwarves a few times that, elves even longer and so on and so forth. Also, the Drow are supposed to be terrifying, while the actual race isn't really much.

My basic premise is that the more "powerful" races in fiction, usually just have more character levels in 3.x Annoying for the DM who has to do the work, but very very probable.

My observations are based on lots and lots of stat blocks read over the years.

Now... a Human is an adult around 20, possessing roughly, a single level in a class. A fourth-level human is usually of a higher rank - sergeant or a captain - , and more experienced, obviously, a decorated veteran around level 6 and probably middle-aged, too. Humans of higher level are usually self-made kings or living legends, NPCs petering out around level 10.

Dwarves are tough and hardy warriors, who start their careers approaching their fifties. Clearly, they have worked longer on the basics, even if they gestate and remain children longer. A basic dwarf should thus start around 4th level, be considered more experienced around 6-8, a decorated veteran around 10th level, and their kings and legends would be in the 12-15 range.

Elves live a really long time, and start adventuring around 20. Apparently, they waste a lot of time in frivolous things, so they generally have level ranges similar to dwarves (and thus make a good rival for them) for the most part.

However, Elves take magic seriously. While humans would consider a 6th-level wizard a Mage, and a 9th level wizard a major powerhouse, for an Elf, a 6th level wizard is still but an apprentice, and would only be considered fully-trained around level 10. A typical elf Mage is somewhere close to qualifying for Archmage, and probably entered Loremaster prestige class on the way.

The (noble) Drow are a special case, mainly culturally. They have a very practical, chaotic, dangerous society, and thus are less frivolous and cultured as your average elf. Thus, for Drow, all classes (except possibly wizards) follow the same pattern as mages for most elves, thus a new, fully academy trained recruit is probably level ten, experienced around level 13, and a veteran around level 15. Curiously, Wizardly classes follow an earlier line - the power hunger in Drow giving them an almost human-like rush towards completion, so their wizards are considered fully-trained  a few levels earlier.

Presumably, immortal and long-lived beings have the tendency to plateau - if for no other reason, that they do not get any meaningful XP anymore. In human lands, it's very hard to go above level 11 or so - you only get something like 300 XP  for defeating an army.

The material realm in general, plateaus around level 17. I think it is okay, for this to happen.

Titles, for human Wizards:
1st: Junior apprentice
2nd: Apprentice
3rd: Senior Apprentice
4th: Journeyman
5th to 8th: Mage
9th onwards: Magus; builds a tower, typically (Wall of Stone becomes available.)
13th onwards: Possibly an Archmage, regardless of possessing the PrC or not.

Hedge Wizards: NPCs who start with an intelligence too low for full wizardry, yet high enough to qualify for spellcasting. Typical hedge wizard has the following build, starting with Int of 11:
Wizard 2/Expert 1/Wizard 2/Expert 2/Wizard 2/Expert 2/...
These are common village wizards (typically, as seen above, of level 6 or lower, with perhaps 1-2 more levels for each age category).
(actually, presuming they hit middle age around level 6, they might actually take 6 wizard levels from 4 to 9... Hm.)

In any case, these are the typical village wizards, who take children as apprentices, whom they might send for more advanced studing when they reach level 1 or 2. Not every village has a wizard; Significantly more common are Adepts or Experts, who can brew potions, create alchemical items and scribe scrolls.

Rituals pretty much have to exist in the setting. Rituals are a way of casting spells, that anyone who can follow a recipe well enough can accomplish, with casting times starting in minutes and going upwards towards months. It's probably how dwarves craft their magic items, too.

Consequently, there should be a way to craft items without the requisite feats, too - this is probably location-based, so that a special forge crafted in a specific location might give Craft Magic Arms and Armor, while a full library and a well-set laboratory might allow the creation of wondrous items for anyone willing to take time. For a low-level expert, this might be years.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 12:14:56 AM »

Hedgewizards are probably magewrights or adepts.
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Senevri
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 06:57:51 AM »

Depatable. I don't think Adepts quite fit the bill, but maybe a class with similar progression exists?
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Hallack
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 10:20:33 AM »

Do you have much more you are intending to bring up in this regard.  Reading what you have the logic seems sound enough.  Though I think largely for particular settings the level ranges for npc's and such likely scale in different directions.  From the settings where npc's do good to have just a few levels to those where 20th level sorts are common.

No doubt the power of NPC's and such depend on the overall power and flavor of the setting.
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Senevri
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2010, 03:27:26 PM »

Do you have much more you are intending to bring up in this regard.  Reading what you have the logic seems sound enough.  Though I think largely for particular settings the level ranges for npc's and such likely scale in different directions.  From the settings where npc's do good to have just a few levels to those where 20th level sorts are common.

No doubt the power of NPC's and such depend on the overall power and flavor of the setting.
I have no idea if I have more to say. Sometimes I just need to get things out of my head, so to speak. Naturally, any DM can build any sort of an environment, and there isn't any actual consistency in WotC books or anything. I've based this more on a gut feeling from reading fantasy, and trying to extrapolate why this should be so. (also, we explicitly know Drizz't was a l10 fighter when he graduated, although he may not have been a typical example.)

Plateauing may however be useful, if used with players. Sometimes the players get a level or two too high for a particular adventure, which, y'know, problematic. Level capping them would help, albeit in those instances I would suggest giving away alternate rewards. Skill ranks (not in excess of maximum for the level) are good, as are minor and custom feats - say, those semi-useless +2 save, +2 two skills type b-class feats.

It might be interesting to produce more common names for specific levels, but I feel that sort of thing breaks down really fast... I'm not even sure where I heard that a wizard isn't a wizard 'til they can cast fireball, or that a wizard becomes a mage once they start building a tower. I'm quite certain I didn't invent those myself.

I'f I'm random, I blame the fever.
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Senevri
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2010, 10:10:53 AM »

Sorcerers...
What is the worst that could happen?
If the charming Katie starts throwing blue bolts of energy, or cones of fire from her hand, situation is obvious, and she'll get proper training.
However, if charming Katie makes so fine stitching you can't tell where a cloth was repaired, gets a pet cat, causes young men to stop and stare, gathers odd knick-knacks, occasionally shows off in darts and the boy who was going out with someone else is now with her... she may grow up a bit twisted. It might take herself a few levels to detect something's going on...

( variant: In a world where magic is a birth-right, and not something anyone could learn, untrained potential wizards become sorcerers, instead. )
Build, something like this ---
The idea here is to be non-obvious : casting spells such as charm person on people while they're asleep and generally being discreet. Of course, at some point the person realizes their abilities and will become purposefully secretive, so illusions and abjurations may become more accessible.

You start out as a peasant, become a merchant later on (suggestion:buy something, fabricate), eventually are well-liked by almost everyone, become involved with royalty and politics, and get lots and lots of allies... best time to cast an enchantment, geas or a suggestion, is when the other party is asleep, and thus automatically fail their will saves.

Feats: (b)Eschew Materials, 1 Silent Spell 3 Still Spell 6 Extend Spell 9 Heighten Spell
Outside core: Invisible spell comes to mind, but frankly, just too many options....
Progression:
levelspells
1daze, mending, open/close, charm person, true strike
2ghost sound
3sleep
4touch of fatigue, detect thoughts, x -> y
5cause fear, knock
6resistance, suggestion, sleep->jump
7feather fall, false life, clairadience/clairvoyance
8mage hand, greater invisibility, charm person->disguise self
9shatter, fly, charm monster
10detect poison, fabricate, x -> y
11touch of idiocy, shrink item, shadow conjuration, nightmare
12mass suggestion, x -> y
13scrying, magic jar, mislead
14limited wish, greater invisibility -> lesser geas
15greater dispel magic, shadow conjuration, greater
16moment of prescience, x->y
17control weather, charm monster, mass
18time stop, x->y
19mind blank, shades
20?, x->y

Observations: The spell list starts out subtle, but gets quite powerful later on. I discovered some amazing spells while doing this - you can, in fact, charm monsters and bind them into gems - Pokémon, anyone?
Moment of Prescience is great for sorcerers - you'd want to recast it asap after it's spent, after all.
These spells were not even a _little_ considered with dungeon delving in mind. they're more for ruling kingdoms, subtly, preferrably.
I also gained some insight to playing enchanters, though a wizard line would be better: You charm and dominate everything you can, get them to fail the binding will save, carry a lot op pokéballs with you, and then... so, yeah. Should be gloriously fun. Only trick is tricking out charm DCs.
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Senevri
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2010, 03:41:32 AM »

The way I figure, this is best put here:
WIZARDS are NOT MAGICAL. This realization stuck me by the fridge.
Spellbooks are very magical objects that require specific training to make, using special inks and so forth. ANYONE with the proper training and sufficient INT can work through the ritual to partition part of their brain for a spell to live in. This also explains in part, why wizards get such lousy skill points: Their memory is kinda bad - roughly equal to someone whose INT is four points lower.

This points out a big actual difference between sorcerers and wizards: by profession, Wizards are non-magical magic users. Sorcerers are magical.

My personal understanding of magic is, that anyone can, even without a training, cast spells in their ritual form, if they just follow proper instructions, and have the proper materials (roughly 100gp worth per spell level, at least.)
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veekie
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2010, 10:55:42 AM »

Presumably given the int requirements, however, the instructions involve high order math and symbology functions, which must be adapted to the individual, time, place and circumstances to be cast properly.
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Senevri
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2010, 08:31:17 PM »

Quite possibly, yes. In fact, it would make quite a bit of sense, if the final step of casting - IE, the one that's done in-combat - is specifically setting the distance, angle, and force of the spell, and other such variables.
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