http://brilliantgameologists.com
September 03, 2014, 12:34:12 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: These boards are now READ ONLY. We've started over! So don't try posting here. Go here www.minmaxboards.com
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Can Necrocarnum Zombies be worth it?  (Read 1887 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Smokey_the_bear
Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
**
Posts: 94



Email
« on: December 15, 2009, 02:28:16 PM »

I've got two 21HD Necrocarnum Zombies to work with but nothing really seams worth it since they loose all Special Attacks and all Special Qualities. Playing in a relatively tame 21st level game and I was wondering if it's worth it to be wasting my time scouring through the MMs or if I should just drop even trying to make them useful at this level. Your thoughts BG?
Logged
Negative Zero
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1532

combarishnigm7@yahoo.com Combarishnigm0
Email
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 04:40:22 PM »

Dread Linnorm from MM2 seems like a pretty solid choice. Or a Titan.
Logged
archangel.arcanis
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 2938



Email
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 04:48:48 PM »

As in all things lvl 21+ Epic spellcasting.

I would personally make a new spell to use to animate them without the stupid obsidian cost and with them retaining a more reasonable amount of abilities. That way you now have a spell for animation purposes that is custom fit to the power level of your game. Remember mitigating factors are your friend.
Logged

Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren
Negative Zero
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1532

combarishnigm7@yahoo.com Combarishnigm0
Email
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 04:56:26 PM »

I don't know Incarnum very well, but I'm pretty sure that telling an Incarnum user to just make an epic spell doing X is about the same as telling a Warblade to do it.
Logged
Operation Shoestring
King Kong
****
Posts: 937


Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


Email
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 06:27:21 PM »

I've got two 21HD Necrocarnum Zombies to work with but nothing really seams worth it since they loose all Special Attacks and all Special Qualities. Playing in a relatively tame 21st level game and I was wondering if it's worth it to be wasting my time scouring through the MMs or if I should just drop even trying to make them useful at this level. Your thoughts BG?

They lose all of them?  I know regular zombies keep breath weapons, at least.... (9-headed Cryohydra?)
Logged

Negative Zero
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1532

combarishnigm7@yahoo.com Combarishnigm0
Email
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 06:47:44 PM »

Why not twelve-headed? That was my first thought, but I figure that 12 HD Hydrae might not be competitive at level 21.
Logged
Operation Shoestring
King Kong
****
Posts: 937


Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


Email
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 06:49:58 PM »

Why not twelve-headed? That was my first thought, but I figure that 12 HD Hydrae might not be competitive at level 21.

Don't zombies' double HD?  So 10-headed would be 20 HD already.
Logged

Negative Zero
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1532

combarishnigm7@yahoo.com Combarishnigm0
Email
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 06:53:28 PM »

Oh, is that so? My fault, then.
Logged
Smokey_the_bear
Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
**
Posts: 94



Email
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 06:54:32 PM »

I've got two 21HD Necrocarnum Zombies to work with but nothing really seams worth it since they loose all Special Attacks and all Special Qualities. Playing in a relatively tame 21st level game and I was wondering if it's worth it to be wasting my time scouring through the MMs or if I should just drop even trying to make them useful at this level. Your thoughts BG?

They lose all of them?  I know regular zombies keep breath weapons, at least.... (9-headed Cryohydra?)
I'll check the draconomicon. But it says all of them. I think I might go with the Dread Linnorm. Two of them walking around with me isn't too shabby 

EDIT: All of the entries in the draconomicon are based off of using the animate dead spell which I am not. Does that mean it really would lose everything?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 06:58:21 PM by Smokey_the_bear » Logged
Negative Zero
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1532

combarishnigm7@yahoo.com Combarishnigm0
Email
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009, 07:27:44 PM »

Quote from: MoI
Special Attacks: A necrocarnum zombie loses all the special attacks of the base creature.
Special Qualities: A necrocarnum zombie loses all the special qualities of the base creature, and it gains the follow-ing special qualities.

Sorry, but that's the specific rule.
Logged
Smokey_the_bear
Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
**
Posts: 94



Email
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2009, 07:31:43 PM »

Quote from: MoI
Special Attacks: A necrocarnum zombie loses all the special attacks of the base creature.
Special Qualities: A necrocarnum zombie loses all the special qualities of the base creature, and it gains the follow-ing special qualities.

Sorry, but that's the specific rule.
Sad I figured. Wishful thinking otherwise I suppose.
Logged
Negative Zero
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1532

combarishnigm7@yahoo.com Combarishnigm0
Email
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2009, 07:35:53 PM »

You could always Awaken it. Awaken Undead is from Spell Compendium.
Logged
Smokey_the_bear
Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
**
Posts: 94



Email
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 07:40:36 PM »

It's actually not that bad now that I think about it. It's BaB is higher than a dragons zombies and its natural armor doesn't get cut in half

EDIT: Well, he gets +11 NA which totals to a 48. 31 base, +2 from the dex increase, and up to another +4 from incarnum defense so that's not bad. He keeps all of his feats and skill points. Now that I've taken a closer look, this isn't too shabby.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 08:19:52 PM by Smokey_the_bear » Logged
bearsarebrown
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 2616



« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 08:20:39 PM »

You could always Awaken it. Awaken Undead is from Spell Compendium.

Strangely... it doesn't lose intelligence. And it keeps all monster HD.

So, it keeps all it's feats!
Logged
Negative Zero
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1532

combarishnigm7@yahoo.com Combarishnigm0
Email
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 09:18:16 PM »

Oh. That's odd. Well, at least it has that. Still, sort of annoying that you can't awaken them to get their Ex racial abilities back.
Logged
BowenSilverclaw
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 5337


Walking that fine line between genius and insanity


Email
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2009, 01:36:47 PM »

You could always Awaken it. Awaken Undead is from Spell Compendium.

Strangely... it doesn't lose intelligence. And it keeps all monster HD.

So, it keeps all it's feats!

Time for some Psychic Reformation Big Grin
Logged

"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.  
bearsarebrown
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 2616



« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2009, 01:40:00 PM »

You could always Awaken it. Awaken Undead is from Spell Compendium.

Strangely... it doesn't lose intelligence. And it keeps all monster HD.

So, it keeps all it's feats!

Time for some Psychic Reformation Big Grin

I've been looking at this for the PbP game. Psychic Reformation is Mind Affecting. You'd need to cast it BEFORE you kill the creature. Meaning, you need to Dominate it, then Reform it.
Logged
PhaedrusXY
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 8022


Advanced Spambot


« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2009, 01:48:14 PM »

You could always Awaken it. Awaken Undead is from Spell Compendium.

Strangely... it doesn't lose intelligence. And it keeps all monster HD.

So, it keeps all it's feats!

Time for some Psychic Reformation Big Grin

I've been looking at this for the PbP game. Psychic Reformation is Mind Affecting. You'd need to cast it BEFORE you kill the creature. Meaning, you need to Dominate it, then Reform it.
You can use Polymorph shenanigans to get around that (I've done it with psicrystals...), but it might be difficult polymorphing it, also. You'd have to use some item that it can use on itself.
Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
Sinfire Titan
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 5697


You've got one round to give a rat's ass.


Email
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2009, 01:50:55 PM »

You could always Awaken it. Awaken Undead is from Spell Compendium.

Strangely... it doesn't lose intelligence. And it keeps all monster HD.

So, it keeps all it's feats!

Time for some Psychic Reformation Big Grin

I've been looking at this for the PbP game. Psychic Reformation is Mind Affecting. You'd need to cast it BEFORE you kill the creature. Meaning, you need to Dominate it, then Reform it.
You can use Polymorph shenanigans to get around that (I've done it with psicrystals...), but it might be difficult polymorphing it, also. You'd have to use some item that it can use on itself.

An item in the Draconomicon can turn them into a Dragon for 1 hour/day, so it should be able to work for this purpose.
Logged



BowenSilverclaw
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 5337


Walking that fine line between genius and insanity


Email
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2009, 01:51:54 PM »

You could always Awaken it. Awaken Undead is from Spell Compendium.

Strangely... it doesn't lose intelligence. And it keeps all monster HD.

So, it keeps all it's feats!

Time for some Psychic Reformation Big Grin

I've been looking at this for the PbP game. Psychic Reformation is Mind Affecting. You'd need to cast it BEFORE you kill the creature. Meaning, you need to Dominate it, then Reform it.
You can use Polymorph shenanigans to get around that (I've done it with psicrystals...), but it might be difficult polymorphing it, also. You'd have to use some item that it can use on itself.
Get a Scroll of Teleport and pay a Psion for the Psychic Reformations? Those aren't THAT expensive...
Logged

"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.  
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!