New to Optimalization looking for some feedback and guidance

[DerWille]

Or how about this one?

Pixie 3, Battle Sorcerer 6 Swiftblade 9 and then 2 levels of something else good like Fighter/Rogue, or a single level dip in cleric or simply go pixie 3, Battle sorcerer 8 Swiftblade 9...?

 That is your best one yet. It's a simple effective gish, but the lost of casting is going to hurt hard. Maybe some Abjurant Champion from Complete Mage to offset the lost caster levels and buff up your defenses.

Oh-oh, here we go again. More options. Let's mix in some invocations and draconic cohorts *facepalm* Still waiting for you to discover incarnum, meldshaping and truenaming...

 A Totemist Pixie could be funny...   

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

IIRC Pixie Dragons can be invisible too and have lots of other cool stuff going for them, and the idea of the mount is flavorful...would only take it with the DFA though.

What about the rest of what I posted?  The Swiftblade build isn't my favorite for some reason...a powerful PrC but I like the flavor of the dragon-pixie idea.

Anyways, I will wait until some peeps who know more about those classes to offer some more feedback before I continue.

And thanks everyone, for helping.

[DerWille]

 I went through but this should be fairly effective.

Pixie 3/Abjurant Wizard 6/Master Specialist 4/Abjurant Champion 2/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 5
ACF: Specialist Wizard, Fighter <-> Wizard Feat Swap

Feats:
Free: Weapon Finesse, Dodge
1) Spell Focus: Abjuration, Improved Initiative
3) Martial Weapon Proficiency
5) Two Weapon Fighting [Bonus]
6) Martial Study: Any shadow Hand Maneuver
7) Skill Focus: Spellcraft [Bonus]
9) Combat Casting,
10) Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration [Bonus]
12) Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance,
15) Shadow Blade (Use Short Swords)


 With this build you get 9th level spells. You also get to mess around with maneuvers, mainly Assassin's stance for +2d6 sneak attack damage on hit. Also as long as you're in that stance and using short swords, you'll get dex to both attack and damage. Since you're invisible, unless enemies have see invisibility or some type of blight sight, they will be treated as flat footed so sneak attack should always proc.

Don't worry about the favored class thing since you'll only be in Wizard or PrCs so the exp penalty won't apply. Pixies get a +6 to both int and cha so go with int. It's just better.

EDIT: I forgot the BAB requirement on Abjurant Champion and the martial weapon proficiency

[cru]

DerWille, is your build proficient with swords?

[DerWille]

God dammit! It is now.

[JaronK]

Got it...but what about an invisible pixie Sneak attacking swashbuckler of flying ddom who also has some really handy spells and/or bardic ability?

Most likely, you'll have a tough time performing as a swashbuckler due to poor BAB and hitpoints and all that, and very poor spells due to +4LA and any levels invested in swashbuckling.  You'll be an invisible pixie sneak attacking swashbuckler of minor annoyance who has some handy spells.

Remember, by the way, that at higher levels that invisibility won't mean nearly as much, as a LOT of things will have Blindsight/Blindsense/Scent/whatever.  Darkstalker can fix this of course, but you'll need a bunch of hide ranks (which casting classes won't get you).  And a LOT of stuff is immune to sneak attack anyway, which is always annoying.

If you want to play a gish (which is what a swashbuckling mage is) that's fine, but drop the pixie which is only killing off two full spell levels in trade for flight and invisibility (two things spells could give you anyway).  If you really want pixie, then I wouldn't worry about casting much... go with something like Factotum (which would give you utility spells without being a primary caster, but would also give lots of actually useful abilities) or perhaps a martial manuevers class (Shadow Hand has some nice stuff to go with invisibility).  Both of those let you max hide and move silently anyway, so you can use Darkstalker and actually be hard to see.

JaronK

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Cool, will look into Factotum, Darkstalker and Abjurant Champion.  What would be the sneak attack damage with those three builds suggested?

Also I am appreciating the feedback but people seem to be avoiding answering my actual questions, ie. my build attempt, DFAs and Warlocks etc.

For my continued education will you guys please critique what I actually came up with?

Edit: P.S. also when I say I am trying to make it all work as a Pixie please do not tell me to not play a Pixie.

P.P.S. I know that everyone here says that caster levels are king and I need to have 9th level casting but assume for the moment I am not the parties main or only wizard and that I don't care especially about being able to cast the highest level spells and only care about still being useful in other interesting ways including having fun non 9th level magic/invocations to fool around with.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

If campaign-specific stuff is allowed, consider taking knowledge(local) two ranks for The Far Hills at first level.  This will qualify you for the regional feat "magic in the blood", which gives you three uses a day of your spell like abilities instead of one use per day. 

That's really nice

[Shadowhunter]

Whoah, this thread ran away faster than the bowel movements of the ogre who decided that Black Pudding was a good desert.

A few clarifications are in order:

The other Dex to damage comes from the Fighter ACF called "Hit and Run".
You loose heavy armor and tower shield proficiencies.
You gain dex to flat-footed targets within 30" and a bonus to Initative, I think it's +2.

Daring Outlaw, as stated before, is the reason I suggested 10 levels of swashbuckler.
10 levels of Swashbuckler + 3 levels of Rogue = 13 levels of rouge for the purpose of Sneak Attack.

You're set on Pixie, that's good. Gives us something to start with.

What I meant by having a good Charisma score is that the Use Magic Device skill is based on Charisma. Hence the higher score, the better you'll roll on your UMD check. Since UMD can substitute for casting (just ask your neighbourhood artificer), putting ranks into UMD can let you cover that "somewhat of a caster" thing you're after. We've all established that a primary caster isn't what you're after.

Warlocks are more Cha-based than DFA's, by far.
DFA's are Con-based and as such likes as massive of a Con-score as possible.
Say, Dragonborn Mongrelfolk with higest base stat, +6 item, +5 book, all stat raises (5), Silthilar Grafts and...
probably somethig more. Con in the lower 40s.

The Pixies ability raises are not suited for DFA's, but makes good Warlocks. Eldritch Blast is a ranged touch (Dex) and sets save DC by Cha. Between the two, I'd reccomend Warlocks.

What in my little Cha-exercise grants Cha to AC?
Well, Arcane Duellist (Online, google should find it) is a PrC that requires Dodge, Mobility and some weapon proficiencies aswell as 1st level spells. Second level they gain Apparent Defense, Cha to AC when unarmored.

The Battle Dancer is from Dragon Compendium I having an ability like the Monk to add a stat to AC when unarmored, but Battle Dancer uses Cha whilst Monk uses Wis.

Speaking of Monks, the last part comes from it. Monk + 5 levels in Bard -which IIRC grants 2nd level spells- qualifies for the combination feat Astetic Mage in Complete...something. I guess it's Scoundrel again.
Which makes the Monk abilites based on Cha instead of Wis.
Sure, normally they have the same name and shouldn't stack if they both work the same way.
But they don't. Monk is Wis in the text. It is only the Feat that switches it. It should by all means work, but is the least possible to get allowed by your DM I'd say.

Factotum is the perpetual Jack-of-all-Trades, located in Dungeonscape, it doesn't focus on SA, but rather gets Int to pretty much anything and everything. A bit exaggerated, but not much. Factotums are a bit tricker than Rogues to play, but have more tricks. Darkstalker is a Feat which lets you hide from things that usually would spot you. Normally, doesn't matter how well you blend into shadows if that what you are fighting have Darksight and can see through shadows. It's more or less a mandatory feat for anyone wanting to be sneaky at higher levels.
Abjurant Champion is a PrC from Complete Mage, sporting the veeery sexy thing of having 5/5 BAB and 5/5 Casting. It doesn't get much better when it comes to gishes, at least not if swiftblade is allready in the mix.

For other things related to Cha, I'd advice you to search the boards for a topic called "X stat to Y".
Charisma have the longest list in there.
Marshall 1 is always a crowd favourite (Minatures Handbook), granting himself and every ally within 30" and earshot his Cha-bonus to a certain thing. Motivate Dexterity is the top candidate, since your Initative Check is technically a Dexterity Check, which would lead to that you and all your friends add your Cha-mod to your Initative check.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Oops...got ninjae'd...this post relates to Magic in the Blood

Yep, if you look closely in my build post (the one before the swiftblade idea), I mention going for that.  Got the idear from the handy dandy pixie handbook here.

Also, I would still like the feedback on my pixie/warlock/dfa ideas and the ways to maximize pixie sneak attacks of doom with secondary or tertiary casting abilities (for fun not to be god).

Howeverseeing as how the DFAs and Warlocks really appeal to me I would also consider an Illumian which I am researching now.  Just please don't forget about my pixie build and request for critique.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Hmmm...so no PIxie DFAs...I have to admit just the image of a small pixie breathing gouts of fire really appeals for totally non optimalization reasons...also having a pixie flavored with scales dragon eyes and dragon wings just looks cool.

Hmmm...Shadowhunter what did you think of my attempt a page back to combine swashbuckler/rogue/swordsage/warlock combo for the+9d6 SA?

Not trying to be rude but it seems like pulling teeth around here to get the critique I have been so waiting for.

[Shadowhunter]

The Eldritch Shaping you're refering to is either Hideous Blow or Eldritch Glaive.
Since the latter is a fricckin glave and not a finesseable weapon, I take it you're thinking of the first one.
Then no, don't.
You see, Hideous Blow is a standard action.
So you either deal those "weapon+ 9D6+Int+Dex x1 (or x2 with the Drow Feat)+ TWF(?)" -not to mention that the Drow thingie isn't a feat so you'll need one level of fighter in there- or you're dealing with that build I suggested something like...
8d6+int+2xDex+weapon damage from the first attack.

Sure, you loose a d6 there.
But then again, now since it's a normal attack, you could always do a full-attack routine.

So that's 2 basic attacks, +1 for TWF, +1 for Haste.
You could go for more, like ITWF or even GTWF, but let us just assume 5 attacks.

(weapon damage+9d6+int+dex(or x2))x1= some damage.
(weapon damage+8d6+int+dex x2)x4= alot more.

Sure, all those attacks might not hit, but your two first ones have only an attack bonus of 2 less than your Hideous Blow, and that shouldn't make that much of a difference.

Valid point is that those 9d6 isn't as limited as SA damage, but it's not enough to tip the scale.
Warlocks for me is all about popping Chilling Tentacles, an Eldritch Chained-Nauseating Blast and then laugh as they struggle out just to hit them in the face with a Repelling Blast.
...
Warlocks tend to do those kinds of things to your mentality

It's good that you try yourself, but this time it didn't work so well .
Hell, I remember the first "Optimized" build I made. I thought Fighter 6/Sorcerer 4/Iniatite of the Bow 10 that spent 2 rounds for 5d10+weapon damage was good. You know, cast True Strike first round and then use that "superaiming" shot the second.


I thought that was a good build...

By comparison, your "first" attempt is better.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Sorry, must have missed that bit.


You could try making a draconic graft into a weapon of legacy, then go for the standard hellfire warlock\legacy champion tons of hellfire damage route.  Reflavor the hellfire as dragonfire, of course.


That said, if you really like dragons, you could be a Pixie Wizard 2/Paragnostic Apostle 3/Zhent Skymage 5/War Weaver 5/Dragonslayer 1/Loremaster 1

Pick up leadership, dragon familiar, draconic cohort, and improved draconic cohort, and you'll have a whole lot of dragons.

Specifically
-Some sort of dragon to ride around on
-A wyrmling dragon familiar
-A young dragon cohort
-An improved cohort dragonwrought kobold who also takes leadership for a dragonwrought kohort

[GawainBS]

My vote is for the Pixie DFA: simple, effective, and quite versatile.

P.S.: Stay away from Battle Sorcerer, it's a trap. (Less spells known, while the increased BAB & HP are neglible once you start PrCing into Gish-classes.)

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Hey Thanks Shadwowhunter...I be a'larnin'.  types of actions is a level of detail I haven;t considered yet.  So much to account for!

So if I want to go with a melee/sneak attacking pixie it would be best to go with the swashbuckler type build and just be a melee class with the cool pixie flavor and abilities.

Or go for the Pixie Warlock and use the tentacle trap kinda stuff.

Or...hmmm...some kind of Pixie/Warlock/Eldritch Disciple combo?  My Warlock research popped them up and trying to find the best way to leverge that, since they would get the nice Cha to AC.  What else would I need for that sort of thing.

Re: Dragons...less interested in having dragons as being dragon like, with the DFA.  Similar to the Warlock they are good for things like Entangling Breath and such.

I may decide to go with a Pixie DFA even though its completely not an optimal choice just because the aforementioned image is just so damn cool.

Or maybe the Illumina DFA...would that work well?  Possible to be a draconic or dragonforged Illumian?  

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

You could try making a draconic graft into a weapon of legacy, then go for the standard hellfire warlock\legacy champion tons of hellfire damage route.  Reflavor the hellfire as dragonfire, of course.

Could you explain this one a bit more for me?  Not trying to be a jerkass but somewhat overwhelmed with the number of book tabs and web tabs opened for research right now...  IIRC the hellfire even reflavored means taking alot of damage and I don't completely understand it but some people say taking a dip as a binder negates that and other people talk about a soulmeld.  Still haven't been able to find the info on those.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

My vote is for the Pixie DFA: simple, effective, and quite versatile.

P.S.: Stay away from Battle Sorcerer, it's a trap. (Less spells known, while the increased BAB & HP are neglible once you start PrCing into Gish-classes.)

Wow!  A vote in favor!  I was thinking with the pixies high stat boosts in other areas I can afford to have a high Con...any other considerations I would need for this idea?  What feats would you recommend?

Right now for a DFA pixie I have:

Magic in the Blood
Improved Flyby
Entangling Breath
Draconic Mount

[The_Mad_Linguist]

No problem.

Taking a single level of binder (from Tome of Magic) gives you your selection of a set of powers each day.  One of these sets includes the power to automagically heal up one point of ability damage each round.  Since hellfire warlocks take one constitution damage each round they use their hellfire blast, you get no net loss from it.

Legacy Champion is a prestige class which advances the abilities of other classes.  You can use it to advance hellfire warlock, even past the levels where hellfire warlock ceases to give any class features.  Since hellfire warlock gives hellfire blasts based on your levels in the class, as well as full warlock invocation advancement, that keeps scaling up.

You end up getting a fistful of dice worth of hellfire damage.

[Shadowhunter]

So if I want to go with a melee/sneak attacking pixie it would be best to go with the swashbuckler type build and just be a melee class with the cool pixie flavor and abilities.

That, or some variation of it, yes. It's a fairly basic build I posted after all, there's no doubt that it could be better.

Or go for the Pixie Warlock and use the tentacle trap kinda stuff.

Just don't decide to dress your pixie in like a leather bikini and underwear, because most gamers I know would scream Hentai as soon as you cast your first Chilling Tentacles

I may decide to go with a Pixie DFA even though its completely not an optimal choice just because the aforementioned image is just so damn cool

Perfectly valid reason
Doing things for the awesomness is just pure fun, as long as you still make sure they're not incompetent.
Regardless, if you're going for DFA then you HAVE to take Entagling Exhalation from Races of the Dragon. It's a mandatory feat. Much like Tomb-Tainted Soul on a Dread Necromancer or Natural Spell for a Druid.

I'm not that versed in Illumians tbh. The only thing I've seen with Illumians except early-entry into PrC-shennanigans is the Words of Creation Bard.
Someone around here mentioned it, a Illumian working to understand and rediscover languages.
If I remember my Illumians, they're into languages and symbols, so I thought that was fitting.
A bit entertaining, since you mentioned Bard earlier.

Wether or not they would make good DFA's...
I'd say they make no better DFA's than other non-con races.
Better than the -Con, worse than the +Con.



+++Whoah++++

Preweiwing is your friend, let's see here:

You could try making a draconic graft into a weapon of legacy, then go for the standard hellfire warlock\legacy champion tons of hellfire damage route.  Reflavor the hellfire as dragonfire, of course.

Could you explain this one a bit more for me?  Not trying to be a jerkass but somewhat overwhelmed with the number of book tabs and web tabs opened for research right now...  IIRC the hellfire even reflavored means taking alot of damage and I don't completely understand it but some people say taking a dip as a binder negates that and other people talk about a soulmeld.  Still haven't been able to find the info on those.

Binder is in Tome of Magic. Binding the Vestige called Naberious gives you fast ability healing. Healing 1 Con damage a turn.

+++Re-edit++
What did I say now again about pre-weiving?
Ninja'ed by TML.

The soulmeld is in Magic of Incarnum and wheter or not it really works is anyones guess.
It's like a centuries old debate that will never be resolved. Personally I don't think it works, but there's sooooo many arguments flowing from both sides I don't even want to begin to mention them.

My vote is for the Pixie DFA: simple, effective, and quite versatile.

P.S.: Stay away from Battle Sorcerer, it's a trap. (Less spells known, while the increased BAB & HP are neglible once you start PrCing into Gish-classes.)

Wow!  A vote in favor!  I was thinking with the pixies high stat boosts in other areas I can afford to have a high Con...any other considerations I would need for this idea?  What feats would you recommend?

Right now for a DFA pixie I have:

Magic in the Blood
Improved Flyby
Entangling Breath
Draconic Mount

Ah, yes, good. Entangling Exhalation.
Someone around here discovered something riddicioulus with flying DFA's.
Fly-by Breath or something like it in a DragonLance book.
Letting you breath as a free action whilst flying.
Now, RAW this means unlimited breath weapons during your move action but that's just going to get books thrown at you. With a reasonable modification, it could perhaps do some good.

Unless Improved Flyby would acheive the same thing, I do not know.
Draconic Mount?
On a Pixie?
You know, your invisibility won't cover your little steed.
Suddenly you're much easier to kill.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Draconic Mount would be a Pixie Dragon who IIRC also have invisibility at will.

Currently looking at Eldritch Dsiciple...needs to have the ability to cast 2nd level divine spells and the best I can find for that is cleric 3.  Also Eldritch Disciple gives great spellcaster progression but you wouldn't get the other abilities.  Seeing as how I'd like to be able to use the Imbue Item at level 12 that looks like so far, Cleric 3, Warlock 12, Eldritch Disciple and....aww crap.  Just realized I misread ED thinking that the aura power was a +CHA to AC...darn. In nthat case the only reason I would take a 1 level dip in ED would be to take healing blast and therefore get unliimited healing per day, which sounds awesome.  So ED 1, which leaves 4 CLs to play with, probably for a Pixie since I love them so much.  Unfortunately I am giving uyp the Hellfire/Legacy whatnot for the ability to cast divine spells at not very good and the unlimited healing feature...and we all know its better to kill you enemies deader faster than try to mop up the damage afterwards...

Linguist...what was that part about Draconic Graft Legacy Weapon???  That hellfire build you suggested sounds like it could do what a DFA does with the reflavoring only a hells of a lot better...would still need to take the binder level dip though right?  And how controversial is the legacy champion?  I am trying not to have the DM crush me.