New to Optimalization looking for some feedback and guidance

[The_Mad_Linguist]

RE: Operation Shoestring's post.

You might want to see if my Priest of the Unseen Host class is allowable.  Link in sig.



Anyway, I've found that how you get a mechanical effect is pretty easy to separate from the in-game consequences except in a few edge cases.  That said, if you want to play a weird race, the dvati from dragon compendium are right up your ally.  Essentially, your character is psychic twins

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Exotic is flavoring.  Classes are mechanics.  Job =/= class.  Wizard =/= wizard.  When I applied to VV's game, i had a level 3 bard who was employed as a  Factotum, while someone else had a factotum 3 who was a Bard by trade.

By exotic I was referring to playing a non-standard race.  More specifically a “monster” race.

At 15 level, a wizard will have 8th level spells.  You'll have 4th.  You do the math.  If your DM lets you abuse Shapechange (Do rashaka's actually get Shapechange, as the spell or its it some other effect, and at what CL?) that can be powerful, but most DM's will throw a book at your head for turning into an 11 headed Cyro-hydra.

Keeping in mind our party already has an Elven Wizard to do the Wizard 20 gig.  But even having that, isn’t it good to have other characters in the group who can do magic to back up the “main” magic user?  For versatilities sake if nothing else..?

Also Raks get an “alternate form” ability not shapechange…think of them like Dopplegangers, which would be another of my choices with an LA of +4, good stat bonuses and armor.

You don't have enough class levels to get a decent bardic music progression at low levels with a pixie.  magic items can make up a lot of the shortfall, but it's really not optimal.  A bard 20 can have +8 Inspire Courage even without touching the words of creation feat, but lopping levels off that cuts your power.  Bard, like full caster classes, is not good for dipping.

So if I understand you and some of the others here correctly, there is no point in being a magic user unless you are going to be 19-20 levels of magic user?  That seems odd to me…maybe if you were the main magic user of the party and the party really needs 9th level spells, sure.  But as a secondary caster is not the more the merrier?

Can you elaborate what you mean about it not being a good match for Pixie?  My first thought was that with a Cha of 20, while he won’t get to Bard 20, the Bard spells he did get, some of which are useful will be reaaly powerful, right?  If one was going to be a bard hypothetically is it best to go Bard 20 or are there other builds and PrC that would stack nicely?

This has bugged me since when I first saw it. Do you post on mASF? That's the only place I've ever seen that acronym used.

What is masf?  I thought it was general forum speak that has been thrown at me a few times in my n00b years.

Mixing a Daring Outlaw build and a Swiftblade build is trying too hard to do too much.

I thought Daring Outlaw was a PrC…?  Apparently it is not.  What does a DO get me?  Would Swiftblade be better?

You'll need 7 levels of bard for Haste-prereq.
Then that LA.
Gives just enough room to squeeze Swiftblade 9 into the mix and Perpetual Options is the best "capstone" of the Swiftblade.*
*Innervated Speed is useless on a Bard swiftblade. You loose a caster level for really no benefit, unless you consider using a lvl 6 spell for a one turn duration Time Stop. Hello, wasted action.

Is that a better option?  Are you recommending the bard/swiftblade combo or are you saying its no good?

I'm going to try and think of something basic and the rest of our esteemed fellows can scoff at it and come up with something better. But I'd go something like this:

Swashbuckler 10/Rogue 3/Fighter 1**/Swordsage 2.

Since SA advance every odd level, having an even number of rogue-compatible classes aren't optimal.
With LA 4, that puts us at lvl 16. Our SA increase was at 15. So that one extra level could be something else, say fighter. 2 Levels of Swordsage nets you Assassin's Stance, gaining 2d6 sneak for the investment of 1d6.
BAB would be 14.
**One pretty good option would then to use the Fighter Alternative Class Feature in Drows of the Underdark. Contrary of what one might think, the ACF's in the book does not in any way require Drow as a race.
What you'll loose is irrelevant.
What you gain is Dex to damage against flat-footed opponents (say, like sneak attack  ) and a bonus to Initative - always a good thing.

I should mention at this point that while a Pixie has an LA of 4 its ECL with its single HD is 5 so in the Savage Species ruplebook we are using I have to take 5 levels of Pixie.  So I guess we cut that one level of fighter out?  Or is it better to only take Swashbuckler 10…and why SB 10?  Is that for prereqs or something else?

Also…I am still trying to fit magic in here somewhere…again not trying to be the ubermage but just finding a way to use magic to enhance the pixies natural strengths.  What about Arcane Trickster?  Just looking for options.
 

Postponing the later Swordage as long as possible might net you enough Initator Level to pick Dancing Mongoose (a Tiger Claw maneuver), but I'm not sure.

What is initiator and the maneuver?  Which book am I looking in?

6 feats and 1 bonus one:
Daring Outlaw
Two-Weapon Fighting
Shadow Blade
3+1 open
Weapon Finesse from Swashbuckler.

Apparently Pixie’s already get Weapon finesse, so what should I take instead?  There are also some feats I heard were great for Pixies from the Pixie handbook regarding juicing their flying/attack abilities…have to go relook that up…

Dex to hit, Dex to damage twice, Int to damage, sneak attack of 8d6 (can be pimped with other things of course).
The X stat to Y thread lists the following:
Quote
Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows    Dragon #314     Damage
I don't have that issue, so I don't know about any conditional requirements, but if it just works like the short version here suggests, then you'll have Cha to damage aswell.
Cha is after all going to be one of your best stats so poking about ways to use it is a good idea.

So the Dex to damages and Int to Damage stack  AND with the SA?  Is that allowable in the rules or is my DM going to smack me for the idea?  I’d love to get some extra bonuses to hit and AC from other things if possible.  And yeah, with a Cha of 20 isn’t there some way I can leverage that without being dependant on a specific magical item that may or may not fall into my hands and are probably too large for my pixie hands?

I know Cha is great for a Paladin but I don’t see me being a Pixie paladin…

Side note…I’d love to be able to have a Pixie Dragon mount like one of the builds in the Pixie handbook.  Is that the kind of thing I have to have as a class feature.  Can only Paladins do that?  Or is that the kind of thing I could negotiate with the DM to just bring in the campaign like he would a magic item?

Sure, it's not like a Hexblade/Paladin of Slaughter/Ranger/Chaos Monk/Bard/Battle Dancer/Blackguard/Eldeen Ranger/Arcane Duellist, netting Cha to saves 3 times (4 against arcane spells) and have Cha to AC 3 times, but that's not what we are after, now is it. 

Actually CHA to AC would be great…what does that?

As far as PrC's go, there aren't any really good ones I can think of. Not that would net you anything substantial at least. Admitedly, as far as sneak attackers go, I prefer the Rogue/Conjurer/Unseen Seer/Arcane Trickster. So using non-hunter's eye-shennanigans to add up on SA isn't my forté.

Waitasec…that seems to contradict something…a rogue conjurer…doesn’t that mean sacrificing caster levels?  What are hunters eye shennanigans?

As far as spellcasting goes, that Charisma score and a good investment into Use Magic Device goes a loooong way. It is after all one of the best skills in the game.

You mean for Bard or something else?  How else does Charisma help me with spellcasting?

You'll need  Trapsmith 1 for Haste-prereq.
Assuming the book's available.

So dip into Trapsmith 1 for the Swiftblade rather than go for Bard 7?  If I did that, how many levels of Bard would you recommend?

Anyway, I've found that how you get a mechanical effect is pretty easy to separate from the in-game consequences except in a few edge cases.  That said, if you want to play a weird race, the dvati from dragon compendium are right up your ally.  Essentially, your character is psychic twins.

Actually that sounds a little too weird for me.  I think I will stick with my Pixie idea or maybe if the DM decides to give 1 HD per monster level an Ogre Mage might be more appealing.

Oh, and I did look up Dragonfire Adept…pretty cool actually and some good looking reasons to be DFA20 and get the full benefit, or so it looks.  What would be a good base race to stack DFA onto?  Are there any optimalization tricks for other clasees or PrC that would be worth diverting from the full 20 path?

Also they have so many cool options, but even at L20, you only get to pick 8 of their special abilities!  It would be hard to choose!  Also on reading more idetail on the types of breath, the two best ones suck because you take half damage from your own attack…ouch!!!

[JaronK]

The thing about casting is that generally speaking casting improvements are exponential.  A caster with 3rd level spells is perhaps twice as powerful as one with 2nd level spells.  One with 4th level spells is twice as powerful again.  Thus, if you take a bunch of Wizard levels but only end up with 6th level spells (for example), you're maybe an 8th as useful as you would have been.  This isn't exact numbers mind you, but that's the basic idea... and it really stinks to have only 6th level spells when someone else in the party has 9th level spells, if spells is all you do.  This is why playing massive +LA races as a caster is usually a poor idea.

JaronK

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

The thing about casting is that generally speaking casting improvements are exponential.  A caster with 3rd level spells is perhaps twice as powerful as one with 2nd level spells.  One with 4th level spells is twice as powerful again.  Thus, if you take a bunch of Wizard levels but only end up with 6th level spells (for example), you're maybe an 8th as useful as you would have been.  This isn't exact numbers mind you, but that's the basic idea... and it really stinks to have only 6th level spells when someone else in the party has 9th level spells, if spells is all you do.  This is why playing massive +LA races as a caster is usually a poor idea.

JaronK

Got it...but what about an invisible pixie Sneak attacking swashbuckler of flying ddom who also has some really handy spells and/or bardic ability?


Aslo, one thing that might make me consider being a monk would be to take Monk10 Drunken Master 10...I have no idea if it is powerful or optimal/effective or not but just the idea sounds awesome...

Oh and can anyone tell me why the scroll slider in my posting boxes seems to be all glitched out now?>  It never used to do that with forum posts before...

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Just found this build by LogicNinja and thought it might work well with the Pixie-bandit idear:

My favoirte Swordsage build is Swordsage 1/Psychic Warrior 2/Swordsage +x/Bloodclaw Master 2/Swordsage +y. As a result, you can TWF without penalties, get Dex to damage with each hand, use boosts like Burning Blade and Searing Blade with Strikes like Pouncing Charge to pile the damage up, cover your saving throws with Diamond Mind maneuvers...

[Operation Shoestring]

Exotic is flavoring.  Classes are mechanics.  Job =/= class.  Wizard =/= wizard.  When I applied to VV's game, i had a level 3 bard who was employed as a  Factotum, while someone else had a factotum 3 who was a Bard by trade.

By exotic I was referring to playing a non-standard race.  More specifically a “monster” race.

mos monster races are not designed to be playable, You can play them, but they rarely work well.

Keeping in mind our party already has an Elven Wizard to do the Wizard 20 gig.  But even having that, isn’t it good to have other characters in the group who can do magic to back up the “main” magic user?  For versatilities sake if nothing else..?

a wizard has more versatility than you can shake a stick.  if he need a back-up, it's for endurance.

Also Raks get an “alternate form” ability not shapechange…think of them like Dopplegangers, which would be another of my choices with an LA of +4, good stat bonuses and armor.

Good stat bonuses and armor don't make up for +4 LA, unless you are playing a melee, non-casting character.

So if I understand you and some of the others here correctly, there is no point in being a magic user unless you are going to be 19-20 levels of magic user?  That seems odd to me…maybe if you were the main magic user of the party and the party really needs 9th level spells, sure.  But as a secondary caster is not the more the merrier?

A secondary caster is just that.  Someone who cast in his spare time, but has something else for his actual job.  Board sing to buff the party, and have very good skills.  Their casting is *tertiary*.  The singings is level-linked, and is why bards are not PrC friendly unless you *really* know what you are doing.

Can you elaborate what you mean about it not being a good match for Pixie?  My first thought was that with a Cha of 20, while he won’t get to Bard 20, the Bard spells he did get, some of which are useful will be reaaly powerful, right?  If one was going to be a bard hypothetically is it best to go Bard 20 or are there other builds and PrC that would stack nicely?

Like i said, bard spells are the frosting, not the cake.  Bards who want to focus on casting, shouldn't lose all the CL that pixies kill with their LA.  bards who want to focus on singing have it even worse.  A pixie bard is best off as a melee bard using snowflake wardance, slippers of battle dancing, a Totemist dip to allow multiple attacks on a standard action, a cleric dip to allow Divine feat tricks, etc.

Mixing a Daring Outlaw build and a Swiftblade build is trying too hard to do too much.

I thought Daring Outlaw was a PrC…?  Apparently it is not.  What does a DO get me?  Would Swiftblade be better?[/quote]

Google is your friend.  Please use it.  Daring outlaw is a feat that combines the Rogue and Swashbuckler classes  ("stacking" their class levels for level dependet abilities) for greater effectiveness.

Is that a better option?  Are you recommending the bard/swiftblade combo or are you saying its no good?

It's no good. bard/swiftblade means you'll at best have 5th level spells to play with, and only get a few BAB over a sorceror doing the same trick, who can easily get 8th.

Also…I am still trying to fit magic in here somewhere…again not trying to be the ubermage but just finding a way to use magic to enhance the pixies natural strengths.  What about Arcane Trickster?  Just looking for options.

Arcane trickster is kind sucky, IME.  A caster has enough tricks to make "called sneak attack" utterly moot as an ability, and "ranged legedermain" simply doesn't get enough uses to be more than a minor gimmick. Everyone who has access to complete Mage is advised to go with Unseen Seer instead.  

What is initiator and the maneuver?  Which book am I looking in?

If you can't even spend 15 second on google, to type in "swordsage" quit wasting our time.  Seriously.  That goes beyond "noob" and into "jerkass" behavior.

So the Dex to damages and Int to Damage stack  AND with the SA?  Is that allowable in the rules or is my DM going to smack me for the idea?  I’d love to get some extra bonuses to hit and AC from other things if possible.  And yeah, with a Cha of 20 isn’t there some way I can leverage that without being dependant on a specific magical item that may or may not fall into my hands and are probably too large for my pixie hands?

Magic items resize for you.  Have done so since AD&D 2e.  Everything suggested is legal.  DM smackage is up to your negotiating skills.

Side note…I’d love to be able to have a Pixie Dragon mount like one of the builds in the Pixie handbook.  Is that the kind of thing I have to have as a class feature.  Can only Paladins do that?  Or is that the kind of thing I could negotiate with the DM to just bring in the campaign like he would a magic item?

You might be able to get a "mount" as a cohort from the leadership feat.

Waitasec…that seems to contradict something…a rogue conjurer…doesn’t that mean sacrificing caster levels?  What are hunters eye shennanigans?

You lose 1 CL  for that rogue level, but you get a ton of class skills in exchange, which is worth it in many cases.  And again, google is your friend.  (Is english not your first language, by any chance?  Most native English speakers know what "shenanigans" are)

As far as spellcasting goes, that Charisma score and a good investment into Use Magic Device goes a loooong way. It is after all one of the best skills in the game.

You mean for Bard or something else?  How else does Charisma help me with spellcasting?

For crying out loud, no wonder other boards have been rude to you.  Google is your friend

So dip into Trapsmith 1 for the Swiftblade rather than go for Bard 7?  If I did that, how many levels of Bard would you recommend?

None.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Ummm....now who is being condescending?  So far you are the only one who has been rude to me, just now.

And yes I could google every which thing and I could spend all the time I don't have reading through every book to get as good as you guys at this stuff.

As I said in my first post, I am here looking for some help soprting though all of this stuff because it is too much information overload and overwhelming and I just don't have time to become the master of optimization.  Ergo I ask you guys who are the masters.  All I am asking is if you post up "use xx class or feat" to tell me *why*, as Shadowhunter has been kind enough to do.

[Operation Shoestring]

Ummm....now who is being condescending?  So far you are the only one who has been rude to me, just now.

And yes I could google every which thing and I could spend all the time I don't have reading through every book to get as good as you guys at this stuff.

No one is asking you to do that.  But if you don't know what "use Magic device" or "swordsage" are googling before asking is basic forum courtesy.  This applies to all forums, not just this one.  Asking about concepts is fine, asking for word definitions for anything that isn't complex or obscure (like say, tem-am-nu or Pazuzu) is just rude.  It's treating other people like they're your personal servants to keep track of every detail for you.  We are not your dictionary/encylopedia.  We give advice/suggestions, not homework answers.

As I said in my first post, I am here looking for some help soprting though all of this stuff because it is too much information overload and overwhelming and I just don't have time to become the master of optimization.  Ergo I ask you guys who are the masters.  All I am asking is if you post up "use xx class or feat" to tell me *why*, as Shadowhunter has been kind enough to do.

We have been telling you why.  If we tell you XYZ, and you don't know what X is, google, instead of assuming we're all idiots who can't read the part where you said you were new to this and asked us to keep it simple.  We have been talking simple, and half of what you asked about could have been solved with 2 minutes of google.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

For reference purposes, d20srd.org is the most useful resource for the core rules.  Doesn't include character creation info and a couple of monsters due to Wizards of the Coast's licenses, but is otherwise comprehensive.

You've come off a little harsh, so people are overreacting a bit.  I think it's probably because this is around finals week, and undergrads and high school students are probably stressed out.

I have a decent amount of time this week - feel free to PM me about terminology questions if a cursorily google search doesn't turn them up.  It's sometimes hard to remember that people don't have the same technical vocabulary, and the fact that several other games use similar names for mechanics adds chaff to the google searches.


A list of other useful links are here - it's a whole lot of data, but browser search fortunately makes it simpler: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=143.0

[DerWille]

This has bugged me since when I first saw it. Do you post on mASF? That's the only place I've ever seen that acronym used.

What is masf?  I thought it was general forum speak that has been thrown at me a few times in my n00b years.

 moderated Attraction Seduction Forums. Tons of great info on that site, but they'll get annoyed if you don't read the handbook or DAFS because the same question will be posted 10 times every day. For example a popular one is, "So there's really cute girl in my class and I'm totally in love with her, but I don't know to get her. How I make her mine?" He's usually met with a pretty condescending tone, but it's tough love. He usually gets something like, "Read the handbook. DAFS. And also you're never going to get her because you're a wimp. Welcome to the community."

----

 As for the rogue question, yes in general you never want to sacrifice caster levels. It's why you don't want to be a high LA exotic race even though they seem really cool. Like I would totally play a Succubus but that's a bad idea. However in that rogue/conjurer/something/something build you'll notice he sacrifices a caster level or two. It's an exception, for some specific builds you have to sacrifice those levels, but you try to minimize it at all costs.  A great example of sacrificing alot of caster levels for a lot of power is the following

 Cleric 4/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10

 This build loses 3 caster levels, the absolute max you can lose and still have 9th level spells. However it get a ton of power in return. If you have the feat DMM: Quicken, you can a spell as a swift action and pay off the spell slot adjustment with turn undead attempts. RKV lets you spend another turn undead attempt to get your swift action back. If you have one back, you can cast another quickened spell. So it's possible to totally break the action economy for as long as it has turn undead attempts.

 For this build it would be unwise to play any race that isn't LA+0 unless you're allowed a LA buy off.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

That stated, sometimes the ability a level-adjusting template or race gives is such a good fit for a class that you just have to pick it up.  However, this happens very seldomly, and almost never for casters.  The main exceptions are a few of the planetouched races (which are considered outsiders, and get nice benefits for that) in gish* builds, where they take advantage of outsider type and martial weapons proficiencies for alter self and to get into prestige classes.

A non-caster example is Master Of the Unseen Hand (Complete Warrior).  It's a prestige class that is focused entirely upon using the telekinesis spell, and doesn't advance casting at all.  The best way to gain entry is to kill yourself.

No, really.  Becoming a ghost and leveling up** as one is a lateral move for many noncasters, especially since this is one of the template classes you can multiclass with freely.  If you want to have good versatility, and be a strange race, ghosthood is a nice choice, though obviously very DM-dependent.  Telekinesis is already an excellent spell, and being able to fly around using it every few rounds with a bunch of prestige class based bonuses is just icing on the cake.




*Term from second edition essentially meaning mage-knight.  Basically, buff yourself up, and engage in melee
**Warning: the ghost savage progression is one of my favorites for character design, due to the fact that it's a scaling level adjustment with breakpoints at every level (well, with the exception that nobody takes the last level, that one's just dumb).

[Runestar]

I am also against the idea of playing a raksasha, in that they appear to be too weak for their ECL. By lv14, all you have are a bunch of low lv spells, and some decent defenses such as sr/dr/moderately good AC which won't really contribute much to the party. Contrast this with a lv14 human sorc. You get the same bab, more hp, comparable saves, and your spells can readily replicate whatever abilities a raksasha has.

Many monster races tend to have too high ECLs. If you are dead set, you may need to work with your DM to lower the LAs of the monsters (which entails reworking the entire monster progression table, joy).

Sorry, but what lv does your campaign start at again? Maybe it is because I am tired after a long day, but I can't seem to find any mention of that in your post.

If you want a jack of all trades, I would recommend a ghaele (using the monster progression in SS). It has CLW and aid at-will, so you shouldn't be stuck in the healbot role (though you can still perform healing admirably, and it won't drain your resources). Between your modest cleric spellcasting, decent SLAs, alternate globe form and high str (which favours tripping, pick up a guisarme and improved trip while you are at it), you should have a wealth of options in and outside of combat.

It won't be anywhere near as optimised as a straight cleric or druid, but can be just as fun and memorable, if not more, due to the sheer amount of class abilities you get to play around with. Plus, you are a celestial. How cool is that?  

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Hey Im working on somethin here and could use some clarification on Shadowhunters post:

Swashbuckler 10/Rogue 3/Fighter 1**/Swordsage 2.

Since SA advance every odd level, having an even number of rogue-compatible classes aren't optimal.
With LA 4, that puts us at lvl 16. Our SA increase was at 15. So that one extra level could be something else, say fighter. 2 Levels of Swordsage nets you Assassin's Stance, gaining 2d6 sneak for the investment of 1d6.
BAB would be 14.
**One pretty good option would then to use the Fighter Alternative Class Feature in Drows of the Underdark. Contrary of what one might think, the ACF's in the book does not in any way require Drow as a race.
What you'll loose is irrelevant.
What you gain is Dex to damage against flat-footed opponents (say, like sneak attack ) and a bonus to Initative - always a good thing.

Postponing the later Swordage as long as possible might net you enough Initator Level to pick Dancing Mongoose (a Tiger Claw maneuver), but I'm not sure.

6 feats and 1 bonus one:
Daring Outlaw
Two-Weapon Fighting
Shadow Blade
3+1 open
Weapon Finesse from Swashbuckler.

Dex to hit, Dex to damage twice, Int to damage, sneak attack of 8d6 (can be pimped with other things of course).

I have been doing research and it looks like I actually have to take Swordsage 3 to get Assasin's stance...

Secondly, I know he got Int to damage from Swashbuckler and one of the Dex to damages from the Shadow Blade feat.  Where did he get the other dex to damage?

[GawainBS]

I guess from the Drow Fighter Alternative Class Feature.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Okay wait...apparently all I need is one shadow hand maneuver to be able to use assasins stance...but I could get the maneuver at swordsage 1..so why take 2?

[GawainBS]

Because your first stance taken must be a 1st lvl one, and SS2 grants you a second stance.

[cru]

I think you're basically trying to accomplish too much. You are overwhelmed by the options and you want it all. You want monster, you want caster, you want mount... You hear about various interesting abilities and you want them. But it simply won't fit into one build. (Well, there are full casters who get all and more, such as druid 20, but you don't want THAT)

This is not going anywhere. You say you want options, but there are too many options. Spellcasting, psionics, martial art; these systems require time to understand and digest. This is a complex game, especially with dozens of supplements, web enhancements, dragon magazines...

People offer you builds with various degree of optimization. Most likely your DM does not even allow all the sources. And 3x cha to AC and saves and damage is not something he wants in his game anyway.

Pick one theme, propose a build. Let's discuss.

Edit: And I see that you've just done that. Great! The build is decent, pixie is sexy, what can go wrong?

Here's also a rant on why not play a monster race

Basically, power in 3.5 comes mostly from spells, not from race. Selecting a monster race gives you a head start (e.g., invisibility at will is great!), however, later on, progression in class greatly eclipses the racial bonuses. Your monster powers make you often more self-sufficient than normal races, however, you also have less to offer to a party.

Rakshasa gets +2 to +6 to all stats. Great.
They are outsiders, outsider hit dice are decent, high BAB, saves, skills...
They get +9 natural armor, yummy.
They get natural weapons, bite and claws.
They have great SR and DR.
They cast as a lvl 7 sorc.
Basically, they have great natural defenses. However, offensively, they won't accomplish much. Their spells are weak, they +3 to DC from increased charisma won't save them. The +7 BAB at lvl 14 sucks and natural attacks are a non-factor. In your party, there's not much how you can contribute in combat. Your attacks will miss, your spells will fail. Enemies will simply ignore you and instead attack some real threats. Out of combat, you can be useful, but your detect thoughts and change self abilities are easy to replicate with low levels spells.

Ogre Mages are an even worse pick. With 5 giant HD and 7 LA, you're ECL 12. You're supposed to be a melee monster, but your BAB is 3. Your hitpoints hopelessly suck. You are large, you can fly, you can turn invisible, you regenerate. All of these abilities are GREAT on a melee monster. In a party, your mage friend can ensure that you can do all that... but you should do the fighting. Alas, ogre mages, even with their +10 to strength, are not worth it.

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Actually that was Shadowhunters Build....I am trying to see what I can come up with on my own here...

Okay, I am starting to wrap my brain around all this information and distilling it into something useful.

For starters I have come to realize that my swashbuckling daring outlaw can be more of a roleplay and flavor thing and not necessarily a class thing.  Still  I like Swashbuckler 3 for the Int to damage.  No reason to take Daring Outlaw unless I am going to take at least rogue 2.

The other thing is I need to decide on my style.  I am sticking with a Pixie…why?  Because I really like them!

So being a pixie I am looking at a few builds styles.  There is the sneak attacking master melle master, or the ranged battle controller.

Even though Pixies Favored class is sorcerer it has been shown to me that its sort of a waste of a class especially since we have a primary wizard already.

But what besides Bard can take advantage of the high Charisma?  Last night I discovered the Warlock and got really turned onto the Dragon Fire Adepts.

So the simplest ideas I have (and I think I can get my DM to do the LA buyoff) would be Pixie 3 (how would this work with the savage species progression which makes the pixie progression 5 levels and not 4?), Warlock 17 or Pixie 3 Dragonfire Adept 17 (and the draconic mount for my pixie dragon cohort).  Both sound really cool to me conceptually being either the dark pixie or the dragon pixie.  Useful in combat and pretty solid (correct me if I am wrong).

BUT…let me try my first hand here at a more complex build:

This is for the melee sneak attacking nasty dark pixie…

Pixie 3 (4?), Swashbuckler 3, Sword Sage 2, Rogue 1, Warlock 11.  Shadow Blade Feat etc. as per shadowhunters post.

Using the Eldritch Shaping technique to add to damage we then have a sneak attack that does weapon+ 9D6+Int+Dex x1 (or x2 with the Drow Feat)+ TWF(?)

No matter how I make the build though I want to make sure I take Magic in the Blood for x3 per day SLAs and Improved Flyby for obvious reasons.

So….any good?  Utter crap? 

Also…Warlock vs DFA: Pros and Cons? Equal?

[Thistledown Thurbertaut]

Or how about this one?

Pixie 3, Battle Sorcerer 6 Swiftblade 9 and then 2 levels of something else good like Fighter/Rogue, or a single level dip in cleric or simply go pixie 3, Battle sorcerer 8 Swiftblade 9...?

[cru]

Oh-oh, here we go again. More options. Let's mix in some invocations and draconic cohorts *facepalm* Still waiting for you to discover incarnum, meldshaping and truenaming...

OK, well. Where to start. No need to bother with a dragon mount. Pixie is mobile enough. Your mount won't profit from your invisibility.

Savage progression levels... well, this is an obscure ruling in an obscure 3.0 supplement. I'm too lazy to look it up. Basically, you want to replace your single fey HD with class HD. I.e., at lvl 5, you don't want to have 1 fey HD and 4 LA; you want to be e.g. a Warlock 1 + 4 LA. You don't want to progress racial HD like monsters do, you want to progress class levels.

What can profit from high charisma:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=215.0

I don't know much about warlocks and DFAs.