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Author Topic: The Maker's Crown [D&D 3.5 - Eberron]  (Read 12710 times)
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BowenSilverclaw
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« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2009, 01:12:47 AM »

Hey, since mechantrixes are human-decended, do they qualify for able learner?

Oh, and do they qualify for dragonmarks?



You see, steal spell like abilities works well with spammable dragonmarks.  That is, if somebody picks up the mark of healing, I can use lesser restoration an unlimited amount of times per day, so our hellfire warlock doesn't need to dip binder.
I think that should work if you take that human heritage feat from RoD...


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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2009, 01:29:02 AM »

Hmm... not really sure if it's worth it, then.  Chameleon is nice, and all, but I'm thinking I'm going to be focused on steal SLA, and losing progression on that is pretty sucky (it's class level/3).

Hmm... maybe I should use bloodlines and legacy champion/uncanny trickster so I can get my class level high enough to steal decent SLAs.  Can we try to brew up a major lawful outsider bloodline?  I'd have to come in at a lower level, and I'd need to get an item familar to accumulate extra XP to partially compensate.  Oh well.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:35:26 AM by The_Mad_Linguist » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2009, 03:16:27 AM »

@Phaedrus:
Would I be able to combine Channel Spell and crusader strikes?

Arcane channeling takes a standard action, which constitutes the time to cast the spell and hit with a basic melee attack. If you can find some way of initiating a maneuver quicker, or casting quicker, then you can use both. Otherwise, I believe the level 13 Duskblade ability to channel as part of a full attack is what would allow you to get both the normal melee attack and a strike while channeling the spell.

As for the psionics, I'm not fully familiar with all the mechanics associated. It seems Psionic tattoos are roughly similar to arcane/divine scrolls. Briefly, what would be entailed in the reusable tattoo?

Psionic JPM is possible. Doing some quick research, there's some discussion here on conversion. Or is there a specific conversion available somewhere you had in mind?

@Bowen:
Couple of questions about cheese:

1) Elder Evil Devotion?
2) Retraining of Elder Evil Devotion and/or Magical Location bonus feats?
3) Reflavoring of Elder Evil Devotion to other alignments/concepts?

1,3) While I appreciate the drive for bonus feats, I'd prefer that the PCs weren't devoted to an elder evil. I could be swayed to allow an equivalent devotion for some other entity of good or neutral alignment, but not for characters with Tier 1 classes. Karma dictates that they usually have access to enough toys as it is. Big Grin
2) Retraining is tricky. I'm going to say that anything gained through something specific like devotion or a magical location can't be retrained, since it reflects specific experiences. Psychic Reformation, on the otherhand, essentially works like Modify Memory, and can be used to retrain these things. In regards to feats gained through a devotion, the character is likely to get reminders from fate about who they pledged themselves to, so pretending you don't know who the all-powerful being to pledged eternal service to is might get you in a wee-bit of trouble. Devotion is Serious Business. Smile

@The_Mad_Linguist:
There are frigid northlands, though they're not particularly inhabitable. What would work well, however, would be if you and your village hailed from the Icewood in northeast Karrnath. At the center of the wood is a powerful Dragonshard which lures in creatures, which are never again seen. It keeps growing, and the inhabitants of the Wood are constantly being edged out to avoid getting sucked into the Madstone. Most likely, your people are being driven out by the presence of the Madstone, and you're now seeking a more permanent home. Preferably one that isn't anywhere near something called a 'madstone.' Smile

As for classes, Either way should be fine. There are some nifty tricks usable with Spellthieves that some people overlook, and Factotums are always cool.
I'm so very tempted to ban leadership in order to keep the game focused on a smaller group of adventurers, but it hardly seems fair in the larger scheme of things. I will limit how many players can take Leadership, though, and I will exercise DM fiat on cohorts.
--pseudo-edit--
Bowen's right, you'd have to take the Human Heritage feat in this case.

@Flay:
I'll PM you about your vampire's background. As for what precisely to go with, if you take your template class, I'm going to say you need a class to advance spellcasting first, treating it like a PrC, so the vampire bloodline doesn't just give you sorcerer casting. For our purposes, it will provide an affinity for magic such that it advances spellcasting levels, as opposed to simply providing the vampire with spells.

On the other hand, I'd say the Tome vampire is also good. Karma still applies, especially since it's a LA 0 template, but not quite the same way as with the class. Feel free to use this one. Also, I mentioned that you don't need to use the alignment shift to Evil if you don't want to. LE can still work in a party composition, but not as well as a neutral or good character can. The other evil alignments can tend to disrupt the game as well, so I'm hoping not to have that come up with any PCs.

Oh, and just to mention, it should go without saying that you can't combine the vampire template with the vampire template class.  Wink

I hate to be a spoil-sport, but I'm gonna rule against the Cloaker cohort, and I'm near to ruling out the Vampire Paragon but I think I may simply make a couple adjustments for balance. Remember, all Tome material is balanced against other Tome material, and not necessarily a standard D&D game. I'm trying my best to keep things under moderate control while still letting you guys get creative. If I get overwhelmed as the DM, this game can very easily fall into gaming purgatory, and then no one will be able to play; I don't want that. I don't want to regret opening this up to creative freedom either, and I don't want to feel like the bad guy for having to ban certain things, but it's going to have to be necessary. I knew what I was getting into when I started the thread, or at least I hoped I did. Don't make me turn this game around! Smile

Besides, from my calculations, even if a Cloaker was listed as suitable for a monstrous cohort, you couldn't take it at level 6 since the highest level cohort you can have is 4. The minimum a Cloaker would be listed at is its CR of 5, and then the DMG suggests monsters with several special abilities (of which the Cloaker has several) to add at least a +3 modifier, making it an average of 8. Even then, it doesn't have a LA, and thus isn't recommended for use as a cohort, the same as for use as a PC (though playing a Cloaker in a Monster campaign could be pretty sweet Wink)

Also, no swarmshifter. Sorry.

@Chemus:
Honestly I'm not sure what they were thinking when they were trying to balance the Warlock. As for the Winter Wolf, it was just a facetious example of  an alternate Improved Familiar. It's listed in CW along with some other alternatives. I wasn't saying that I expected you to have a Winter Wolf as a familiar, only that it's kind of hard to travel around with something like that without raising some eyebrows.

As for the Avariel form, I'll see what you come out with for knowledge ranks, and figure out if you automatically know about it at game start or not. Otherwise we'd have to include something later on to gain enough familiarity with it to copy the form.

Other thoughts:
I am getting myself a little in over my head, I think. It's easy enough for me to come up with characters for 3.5, but I've demonstrated time and again that I'm not the most experienced optimizer, at least in terms of various tricks and such. Mostly this comes from opening the floor to requests for alternative options, but in general you guys are capable of coming up with ideas that are way beyond what I'm used to, particularly as a DM.

I'm beginning to think I need to either rethink how I approach this, or even start from scratch. I don't want to lose all these great ideas, but I also don't want to make promises I can't keep, either.

I'm definitely going to at least have to spend some time thinking about what I'm going to need to do with all this.

Let me know if I'm forgetting to address anything.
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BowenSilverclaw
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« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2009, 03:27:19 AM »

I'm thinking I'll go with either a Druid or a Wild Shape Mystic Ranger Smile

Probably someone who's explored/been stranded on Xen'drik for quite some time.
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« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2009, 03:40:42 AM »

Haha, no problem. I'm thinking of the tome guy just because the template class I have is.... a bit high powered, I believe. I do think I did a decent separation of the LA to level format, but it's still going to be much more highly CO, just from the raw stat boost. Not that I mind the stats, buuut....
[EDIT] Something I noticed about the tome vamp - those subtypes. What say you to a "Any Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate attempts to influence a dark minded creature are made with a -10 penalty" rule? I say what?

I'd love to modify the paragon class to your liking; what I'm looking at is the spell progression, the hypnotic gaze, and the blood pool. I think the regen while it has a nice handful of things that cut through it, also seems a bit wrong for a potentially third level person. The flaws are a nice RP touch though, but I doubt that's what you were thinking of editing, huh?  

And yeah, the cloaker's out; I ran by the numbers myself after reading Undead Leadership, which gives the boost, and I realized that I STILL would have to be Lv 8 minimum for the 6 hd cohort. So for now, I'm sticking to a Vampire Sorcerer, trying to fill my feat slots with vamp-ish stuff, and whatever feats fill up my spell list, like mother cyst or Necromantic Bloodline. By the by, wanted to double check that those kind of feats were okay, and that those/runestaffs weren't going to be something you might regret.

Lol, tone down the CO min/maxing guys!  Big Grin We're not trying to break the campaign! Also, remembering we're a high-number party...
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 03:58:40 AM by Flay Crimsonwind » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2009, 04:04:20 AM »

Reconsidering wild mage; it's a pain in the ass. Even if the EB dice were leveled out, rolling for how many dice I roll is just a pain.

Just the Hellfire warlock (plus binder if necessary), and maybe mindbender, since it's almost free Wink, are what I have so far.
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BowenSilverclaw
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« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2009, 04:18:46 AM »

Venn, do you have any idea to what level this will go?
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« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2009, 04:30:15 AM »

Lol, tone down the CO min/maxing guys!  Big Grin We're not trying to break the campaign! Also, remembering we're a high-number party...
I'm willing to ditch the factotum cohort (he's searching for his wife, who may or may not be dead), assuming we have a decent array of dragonmarked members for me to steal SLAs from.

Basically, I want to play a guy who focused entirely on steal SLA.
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« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2009, 05:24:13 AM »

Lol, tone down the CO min/maxing guys!  Big Grin We're not trying to break the campaign! Also, remembering we're a high-number party...
I'm willing to ditch the factotum cohort (he's searching for his wife, who may or may not be dead), assuming we have a decent array of dragonmarked members for me to steal SLAs from.

Basically, I want to play a guy who focused entirely on steal SLA.
And now I'm really sad that Tome isn't allowed. Tongue
(The Fiend classes can pick up a ton of powerful SLAs)

I was thinking of playing a knight type, but we've already got a "bodyguard". Maybe a swordsage?
Since I never tried it before, I'd really like to try the Druid + Fleshraker Animal Companion thing, although I don't want to play a Halfling, so I'll need to come up with some decent fluff for that that isn't the (Eberron) standard dinosaur-riding halfling.

If that doesn't work out, I'll probably go with a Conjurer/God.
Or I could try whichever one of these that Bowen isn't doing (I don't play Tier 1s very often). If it's a druid, I'm going to flavour it as a dryad stuck inside a livewood warforged.

Can someone tell me what a mechanatrix is?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 05:35:19 AM by Prime32 » Logged

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The tier system in a nutshell:
Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2009, 05:35:02 AM »

So... much... cheese....  Twitch  Laugh

Seriously, I don't think my char (whatever he may be) will do much with such a party  No

... but I still want to try it out 

So, maybe a Kalashtar Psion...  Plotting
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« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2009, 05:36:57 AM »

TML, if you're stealing a lot of SLAs then try the Violate Spell-Like Ability feat from BoVD.

So, maybe a Kalashtar Psion...  Plotting
I would go Kalashtar monk/soulknife/soulbow/atavist with Tashalatora and some of the other stuff from Secrets of Xen'drik (treat mind blade as monk weapon, psionic feats as monk bonus feats), and take advantage of karma. Possibly you could shape your mind blade into an unarmed strike, or you can work in some legacy champion and pick up the ability which lets you treat a legacy weapon as a mind blade.

Or see if you can get permission to gestalt an unarmed version of this with the monk variant that trades speed for damage reduction, and go around telling people that they are already dead. Tongue

Reconsidering wild mage; it's a pain in the ass. Even if the EB dice were leveled out, rolling for how many dice I roll is just a pain.

Just the Hellfire warlock (plus binder if necessary), and maybe mindbender, since it's almost free Wink, are what I have so far.
Want cheese? Primordial half-giant. Pay for multiple castings of return to natureECS - it reduces a giant's size by one category and its duration is instantaneous. Get small enough and you can call yourself a fairy (fell flight gives you wings). Well, even without that, primordial (dragonborn if you want) half-giant is a pretty good LA +1 race for warlocks (and it gives you more SLAs for TML to steal).
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 05:53:22 AM by Prime32 » Logged

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The tier system in a nutshell:
Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2009, 06:09:18 AM »

I don't think spellthieves can metamagic stolen stuff.


EDIT: Holy bullshit, Special Mount is (sp)


I can create an army of paladin horsies
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« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2009, 09:30:14 AM »

@Venn
Quote
Arcane channeling takes a standard action, which constitutes the time to cast the spell and hit with a basic melee attack. If you can find some way of initiating a maneuver quicker, or casting quicker, then you can use both. Otherwise, I believe the level 13 Duskblade ability to channel as part of a full attack is what would allow you to get both the normal melee attack and a strike while channeling the spell.
That's what I thought. I also asked in the Simple Question thread and got the same answer. I was leaning more towards the psionic crusader build, anyway.

Quote
As for the psionics, I'm not fully familiar with all the mechanics associated. It seems Psionic tattoos are roughly similar to arcane/divine scrolls. Briefly, what would be entailed in the reusable tattoo?
They're more like potions, in that anyone can use them, and the are normally limited to 3rd level or lower powers. There was a Mind's Eye Article (on the WotC page, but not in a book) about "Advanced" Psionic Tattoos that had rules for letting them hold powers higher than that, and with special tattoos that let you reuse the normal ones, quicken them, link them, etc. I reposted an old guide to that article, including a 3.5 conversion, examples, etc. I linked to it in my earlier post, but here it is again if you want to look it over. (I understand if you don't. )

The short version: if I buy two 1250 gp "special" tattoos, I can make one normal tattoo that is reusable and that I can recharge with my own power points. So it basically is kind of like an extra power known, which is really helpful because Ardents have very few.

I mostly just want to add Share Pain as a known power without having to burn an Expanded Knowledge feat on it. If you'd rather us rewrite some of the mantles to have that power, that would be ok too. I really think Expansion should be on the Physical Power mantle instead of Adrenaline Surge, as the special ability of that mantle is very similar to Adrenaline Surge already. I also think Share Pain should be on the Guardian mantle, because it is the Psionic equivalent of Shield Other from the cleric list.
Quote
Psionic JPM is possible. Doing some quick research, there's some discussion here on conversion. Or is there a specific conversion available somewhere you had in mind?
That's exactly how I'd convert it. It is very simple, IMO. Psionics is basically magic with "magic points" instead of spell slots. The psionic focus changes it a bit more, but it shouldn't matter for this, unless you want some of those JPM abilities to also require me to expend my psionic focus (using metapsionic feats requires that).
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« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2009, 12:35:53 PM »

I don't think spellthieves can metamagic stolen stuff.


EDIT: Holy bullshit, Special Mount is (sp)


I can create an army of paladin horsies
So shall it be done! To work with you, man!  Big Grin Vampire sorcerer needs a paladin vampire horse!

.... I wonder if you could vamp a special mount... I don't see why not... Not that I'm getting ideas or anything, heheheh....heh....
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« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2009, 01:22:43 PM »

@Bowen:
I'm thinking I'll go with either a Druid or a Wild Shape Mystic Ranger Smile

Probably someone who's explored/been stranded on Xen'drik for quite some time.

I think if you go with that concept, your PC should have random outbursts of crazyspeak, or flashbacks. Big Grin
Also, feel free to go with the Fleshraker. You needn't be a halfling to have a kindred bond to the fleshraker, especially if you've got a twisted mind from being stuck in Xen'drik. Wink

As far as level goes, it's hard enough for most PbP's to keep going as people drop out for various reasons, and it takes a while to get anywhere. Don't expect to get too high in level, but plan accordingly. As such, everyone's builds should, of course, be playable to about an equal degree at all levels.

@Flay
Haha, no problem. I'm thinking of the tome guy just because the template class I have is.... a bit high powered, I believe. I do think I did a decent separation of the LA to level format, but it's still going to be much more highly CO, just from the raw stat boost. Not that I mind the stats, buuut....
[EDIT] Something I noticed about the tome vamp - those subtypes. What say you to a "Any Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate attempts to influence a dark minded creature are made with a -10 penalty" rule? I say what?

I'd love to modify the paragon class to your liking; what I'm looking at is the spell progression, the hypnotic gaze, and the blood pool. I think the regen while it has a nice handful of things that cut through it, also seems a bit wrong for a potentially third level person. The flaws are a nice RP touch though, but I doubt that's what you were thinking of editing, huh? 

And yeah, the cloaker's out; I ran by the numbers myself after reading Undead Leadership, which gives the boost, and I realized that I STILL would have to be Lv 8 minimum for the 6 hd cohort. So for now, I'm sticking to a Vampire Sorcerer, trying to fill my feat slots with vamp-ish stuff, and whatever feats fill up my spell list, like mother cyst or Necromantic Bloodline. By the by, wanted to double check that those kind of feats were okay, and that those/runestaffs weren't going to be something you might regret.

Lol, tone down the CO min/maxing guys!  Big Grin We're not trying to break the campaign! Also, remembering we're a high-number party...

I'd prefer you going with the Tome vampire at this point because it's not quite so crazy with ability adjustments and helps mitigate some of the immunities of the Undead type (you also heal normally, so it's easier for your fellow players to get some healing in on you). I understand wanting to playtest your template class though, so if you go with that then you're going to start with a lower PB value at the very least.

Also, what are you asking exactly about the influencing dark minded creatures? Basically, that clause takes the place of being immune to mind-affecting effects.

As for the paragon class, I'd say limit the # of bloodpool points usable each round to equal class level, except for the ability to spend 4 at the beginning of the day to avoid the need to feed for the day. Hypnotic Gaze should be usable a certain number of times per day, or otherwise have a number of rounds between usage. Vampires are generally only suitable as monsters, so unfortunately I think as a PC they need to have a few limiters. I'll still allow gaseous form at will. Regeneration is Regen 2, though I'll allow this to grow later on in levels. I'd much prefer to replace it with a scaling Fast Healing ability based on character level though.

I'm going to say no to Mother Cyst, but yes to the bloodline feat.

Consequently, I'm going to rule out Moderate and Greater UA Bloodlines, however.

@Chemus:
Reconsidering wild mage; it's a pain in the ass. Even if the EB dice were leveled out, rolling for how many dice I roll is just a pain.

Just the Hellfire warlock (plus binder if necessary), and maybe mindbender, since it's almost free Wink, are what I have so far.
If you're worried about damage level, I'd be willing to allow a class fix that improves damage and number of invocations.
Otherwise, if you still like wild mage but just don't like the rolling mechanic, we could always come up with an alternate class feature that introduces some wildness to some other aspect, such as a random chance to draw upon an eldritch essence or blast shape. Just something to think about.

@TML:
I don't think spellthieves can metamagic stolen stuff.


EDIT: Holy bullshit, Special Mount is (sp)


I can create an army of paladin horsies

Hmm, cloistered cleric cohort with 3 levels of Prestige Paladin? Only loses one caster level, and you can both ride around on a shiny white pony.

Actually, since the ability is usable only once per day for a paladin, you wouldn't really be able to exploit this much.

Lol, tone down the CO min/maxing guys!  Big Grin We're not trying to break the campaign! Also, remembering we're a high-number party...
I'm willing to ditch the factotum cohort (he's searching for his wife, who may or may not be dead), assuming we have a decent array of dragonmarked members for me to steal SLAs from.

Basically, I want to play a guy who focused entirely on steal SLA.
I'm sure your Warlock friend can spare a few SLAs. I mean, he can only use one per round anyway, right? Big Grin

@Risada:
So... much... cheese....  Twitch  Laugh

Seriously, I don't think my char (whatever he may be) will do much with such a party  No

... but I still want to try it out 

So, maybe a Kalashtar Psion...  Plotting
Yeah, this thread is starting to smell of gorgonzola. I'm trying to reign it in a bit, though it's kind of a strain.

Remember, anyone exploiting this strong cheese is not only going to start off with some Karmic balancing, but the more cheese they spread in-game, the higher the chance to push fate/reality too far. It's all pretty much a way to spread out the "Rocks fall, you die" mechanic.  Evil Laugh

If you wanted to go with something closer to Prime's suggestion, I'm not sure there's a specific feat that allows you to use your mind blade as a monk weapon, but there are options for shaping it like a monk weapon. I would probably let you consider is as one, and allow it to deal damage on top of monk unarmed damage.

@Phaedrus:
I'll allow the advanced tattoo, though I'll also allow special custom mantles as well. If you want to propose a custom mantle, just let me know what you plan for it and I'll take a look.

As for the JPM, it is a fairly competent conversion, but the difference between arcane casters and manifesters is that it can be somewhat easier to draw upon more PP, thus gaining more uses of their powers/class features, and making a psionic JPM a more powerful class than the arcane version.

It's still definitely an interesting combination, though.
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« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2009, 01:32:55 PM »

@Phaedrus:
As for the JPM, it is a fairly competent conversion, but the difference between arcane casters and manifesters is that it can be somewhat easier to draw upon more PP, thus gaining more uses of their powers/class features, and making a psionic JPM a more powerful class than the arcane version.

It's still definitely an interesting combination, though.
That's an argument against all of psionics. It has very little to do with the JPM. And it is not a really legitimate one, IMO. Yes, it is very easy to nova with a psion. It is also easier to run out of powers for the day as a psion than it is for a mage to run out of spells, because you have to pay for augmentation. If you figure out how many "magic points" a core wizard has, it turns out to be substantially more than a psion has, at every level of the game, due to the fact that his spells scale for free, whereas the psion has to spend power points to augment his. And a well-built nova-mage will outperform a psion at novaing, and will last longer while doing it.

This is an argument commonly leveled at psionics by those who either don't like it, and/or aren't deeply familiar with it and/or haven't really thought through a detailed comparison of the two systems. It is pretty much thoroughly debunked in the "Psionics is Overpowered" myth thread back on the WotC psionics board.

So I disagree entirely that a psionic JPM is more powerful than an arcane one. Indeed, the arcane one will be drawing on arcane spells, for which there are like a zillion splatbooks, while the psionicist is limited to his few powers known and almost entirely to two books. So in almost every way, an arcane JPM will be more powerful. I am fine with requiring the JPM abilities to expend psionic focus, as that's the way things usually work for psionicists. It is also another way that they are more limited than their arcane counterparts.
Quote
I'll allow the advanced tattoo, though I'll also allow special custom mantles as well. If you want to propose a custom mantle, just let me know what you plan for it and I'll take a look.
Ok. I might just change the mantles around, then. I'll get back to you with something later. I'm kind of busy right now. Sorry if I got a bit ranty in the above spoiler. Wink
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
BowenSilverclaw
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« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2009, 01:47:48 PM »

Working on some basic sheets at the moment, should have them up for evaluation soon enough Smile

EDIT: Still WIP, but should give you a decent idea:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=171488
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=171730


~Bowen
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:57:02 PM by BowenSilverclaw » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2009, 01:56:28 PM »

@Phaedrus:
As for the JPM, it is a fairly competent conversion, but the difference between arcane casters and manifesters is that it can be somewhat easier to draw upon more PP, thus gaining more uses of their powers/class features, and making a psionic JPM a more powerful class than the arcane version.

It's still definitely an interesting combination, though.
That's an argument against all of psionics. It has very little to do with the JPM. And it is not a really legitimate one, IMO. Yes, it is very easy to nova with a psion. It is also easier to run out of powers for the day as a psion than it is for a mage to run out of spells, because you have to pay for augmentation. If you figure out how many "magic points" a core wizard has, it turns out to be substantially more than a psion has, at every level of the game, due to the fact that his spells scale for free, whereas the psion has to spend power points to augment his. And a well-built nova-mage will outperform a psion at novaing, and will last longer while doing it.

This is an argument commonly leveled at psionics by those who either don't like it, and/or aren't deeply familiar with it and/or haven't really thought through a detailed comparison of the two systems. It is pretty much thoroughly debunked in the "Psionics is Overpowered" myth thread back on the WotC psionics board.

So I disagree entirely that a psionic JPM is more powerful than an arcane one. Indeed, the arcane one will be drawing on arcane spells, for which there are like a zillion splatbooks, while the psionicist is limited to his few powers known and almost entirely to two books. So in almost every way, an arcane JPM will be more powerful. I am fine with requiring the JPM abilities to expend psionic focus, as that's the way things usually work for psionicists. It is also another way that they are more limited than their arcane counterparts.
Quote
I'll allow the advanced tattoo, though I'll also allow special custom mantles as well. If you want to propose a custom mantle, just let me know what you plan for it and I'll take a look.
Ok. I might just change the mantles around, then. I'll get back to you with something later. I'm kind of busy right now. Sorry if I got a bit ranty in the above spoiler. Wink

I didn't mean it in quite that way; If I had, I'd have made suggestions on adjustments to the psionic JPM conversion. I think it's fine the way it's presented there. My point was more about a few builds I've seen which are able to get obscene amounts of PP, or infinite PP through loopholes. I should have clarified.
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BowenSilverclaw
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« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2009, 01:57:32 PM »

Please note edit of previous post Smile
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You caught a fish.  It was awesome.  
PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2009, 02:11:42 PM »

If I could just add Share Pain to the Guardian Mantle, and replace Adrenaline Surge with Expansion on the Physical Power mantle, I'd be happy and mostly done building my character. Big Grin

Here is a link to the mantles, so you don't have to look it up. I don't know why, but the Freedom mantle seems to be missing for some reason...

And is retraining maneuvers and stances known as I level ok?

And... if I play an Illumian with the Krau sigil, will that add a +1 to my manifester level? I think it should under the default transparency rules, but I thought I should make sure.

Ah screw it. I think I'll make him a dragonborn dwarf. What dwarf traits would he lose? Should I go with some other race that has a Con bonus? Hmm... a dragonborn warforged could be a lot of fun. I've played one of those before, but RPing the implications of the soul of a Jade Phoenix Mage being reincarnated into a warforged body could be a hell of a lot of fun. Big Grin The -2 to Wisdom will hurt, though...

Dragonborn (wings) Dwarf Ardent4/Cru2
Feats: Practiced Manifester (Ardent) (1), Psicrystal Affinity (flaw), Psicrystal Containment (3), and Stone Power (6)
Mantles: Guardian, Time, Physical Power
Ardent Powers: Vigor, Expansion, Damp Power, Share Pain, Time Hop (assumes the mantle changes I proposed are ok)
Gear: Deep Crystal Glaive or Guisarme, Steadfast Boots

Crusader Maneuvers (IL4)(assumes retraining lower level manuevers to higher ones is allowed):
    * 1st level (5): Vanguard Strike (DS1, no prereq, std, if attack hits allies gain +4 to attack target till next turn), Stone Vise (SD2 no prereq, std +1d6 dmg, Fort (DC 12+Str) or movement is 0 for 1 round), Leading the Charge (WR1, no prereqs, swift, stance, allies that charge gain +IL to damage), 2 more maneuvers, 1 more stance

Next level: Retrain the stance learned at Crusader 2 for Thicket of Blades.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 02:58:04 PM by PhaedrusXY » Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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