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Author Topic: Treantmonk's Guide to Pathfinder Bards  (Read 20364 times)
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Treantmonklvl20
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« on: November 24, 2009, 10:47:33 PM »

I have completed some Pathfinder Guides.  They are available at the Pathfinder SRD under custom content "Treantmonk's lab"

The Guides are made with a Google Document, which is really, I've discovered, the best way to do a handbook.  Doing handbooks on Forums like this one require long periods of dealing with the various tags (which, if you are unlucky enough to be on Gleemax - change).

With a Google Doc, you just make the Handbook like a Word Processor, making it easier to work with images, sizes, colour and fonts.
For those reasons, I'm just going to post a link:

Treantmonk's Guide to Pathfinder Bards

Feel free to post comments or responses here, I will check in regularly.
If you wish to discuss the merits or pitfalls of Pathfinder, I would be happy to do so, but please keep this thread for comments/questions regarding Pathfinder Bard optimization.  Thanks!

Treantmonk
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Slaughterhouserock
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 05:57:14 AM »

Thanks man, this'll help out immensely as I plan to make a bard for an upcoming game.  I have a few questions if you don't mind.

Any suggestions on starting stats for a 25 point buy archer?  I've always rolled stats, so I find going through the give and take of point buy to find an optimal set of stats a bit annoying.  Also, with the bestiary out now, how would a drow fit in with that path?  I think it'd have a slight advantage over the halfling(being medium, not taking a hit to Str, the hit to Con sucks though, as does the light blindness), but would like to hear your opinion on it.  Are there any other races from the Bestiary you'd recommend?  Thanks in advance.

Oh, and some of your links go to the wrong spells.  The ones I noticed are:

Greater Invisibility goes to Invisibility Sphere
Dimension Door goes to Dictum
Good Hope goes to Glyph of Warding
Delay Poison goes to Deep Slumber
Deep Slumber goes to Deathwatch
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance goes to Circle of Death
Misdirection goes to Mirror Image
Blindness/Deafness goes to Blight
Obscure Object goes to Nondection
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 06:28:04 AM by Slaughterhouserock » Logged

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I have a 5 in Charisma and Diplomacy is a cross-class skill.  Hopefully I don't piss off too many people.
Treantmonklvl20
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 08:00:19 AM »

I guess the first thing I would do is check with your DM regarding Bestiary races.  The recommendation for DM's is to not allow any "monster PC's" unless they consider it carefully.

That said, if your DM says "go wild", then the Drow Noble is generally considered the universally right choice.

For a 25 point buy - I would probably go

Str: 14 (5), Dex 16 (10), Con 14 (5), Int 12 (2), Wis 7 (-4), Cha 15 (7)

Or something along those lines.

I'll be relinking spells over the next few weeks to the PFSRD instead of the PRD - so hopefully those incorrect links will all be fixed when I do that.

Have fun, I'm playing a Bard in a campaign presently (in a group who was of the firm opinion that "Bards suck"), so whenever I do more damage than the party Barbarian, or I cast the spell that saved the day, and they look at me in confusion, I get amusement by saying, of course I did X, I'm a Bard!!!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 08:02:43 AM by Treantmonklvl20 » Logged

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Slaughterhouserock
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 03:13:12 PM »

The DM's ok with anything that has the stats for PCs already set up(minus the Drow Noble unfortunately).  And thanks for the stat suggestion, I probably would've spent several hours working on that.  I haven't played a core-only game in years(or a bard for that matter), so this has been very helpful.

Lol, nice.  There's a barbarian in my group as well and it would thrill me to no end to out-damage him with a bard(he's a bit of a twat to be honest Tongue).
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The DM giveth and the rogue taketh away.
I have a 5 in Charisma and Diplomacy is a cross-class skill.  Hopefully I don't piss off too many people.
Treantmonklvl20
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 03:29:02 PM »

Don't get me wrong - you are not going to consistantly outdamage him, more often than not, he's going to outdamage you.

However, I think you will find that the offensive output (especially at the levels you are attacking 2x per round, and he is only attacking once, and then when you are attacking 4x per round when he is attacking twice) is certainly comparable.

As for rating Bestiary races - I'm not sure I'm your man for that - as I haven't really gone through them.  Anything that boosts CHA and DEX has got to be a good choice though, and Darkvision is especially good in Pathfinder.  So I would think the Drow would be a good choice.  You don't need a super high Con anyways.  A 12 to start should fit the bill.

Anyone else have some good race suggestions?
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Slaughterhouserock
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 03:45:36 PM »

I didn't figure it'd be a constant, but doing so even once would make me quite happy and him quite angry. Tongue

That's why I thought the drow would be ideal as it gets +2 to Dex and Cha amongst other things.  I'll have to compare it to the other races when I get home(I'm afb now).
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The DM giveth and the rogue taketh away.
I have a 5 in Charisma and Diplomacy is a cross-class skill.  Hopefully I don't piss off too many people.
Akalsaris
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 10:24:08 PM »

Well, carnivore is no longer here, so I'll suggest it for him: a pixie might be a solid choice if you're starting at CR 4 or higher.  A pseudodragon is also only CR 1 and would probably make a very fun bard, albeit not one that could really fit into any of the 3 archetypes suggested in the handbook.
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Glutton
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2009, 02:05:02 AM »

I've been playing the beta rules bard in a pathfinder campaign for over a year, and I must recommend Dirge of Doom antics. Our party sorc is infernal bloodline and we have had great success using dirge of doom followed by corrupting touch on things that get up close and personal or with high sr/saves, sending them into frightened mode to buy some time. Also stacks well with the dazzling display line for party rogues to allow sneak attack to basically anything without having to worry about Invisibility or stealth.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 02:07:28 AM by Glutton » Logged
pwntatochip
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2010, 02:49:39 AM »

First time posting and I just want to say great guide, I am currently playing a whip/trip lvl 8 drow bard fighting from the back of a phantom steed and I can tell you it is the most fun I have had yet with a pathfinder toon.

Since your guide said you had not tried it and it was more of a thought exercise I wanted to share my results.  My party makeup is and orc barb, a half-orc barb, a twf rouge, a dwarf fighter, a melee cleric and myself.

I usually delay till the bottom of the round to give time for my melee goons to get in stabbin range, once they are all set I ride to the most threatening baddie, and give my friends all a free attack with Gtrip, then I ride to another baddie and give him a good tripping( I usually win inish so at the top of the next round I go again)  With -4 ac from being prone my DM has the choice of eating Power attack sandwiches or spending his turn provoking attacks of opportunity.  After a few trips to the ground some baddies decide they are better off fighting from there, when this happens and I have no one to trip I activate Dirge of doom(-6 ac and hit is huge for us).

If you have any Suggestions on how I could be doing batter please let me know.

lastly on a funny note, if you count the damage that gets delt by AOO that I cause(either from Gtrip or them standing back up) I am actualy dealing more damage then anyone else in the party, w00t!
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Akalsaris
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 10:54:26 PM »

Man, that sounds like the perfect build for such a melee-based party Smile
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pwntatochip
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 05:48:54 PM »

yah my group has a raging hardon for melee, I introduced them to a properly built wizard(god build) and all I heard for an entire game was "but that spell makes melee useless / that spell is broken it completely screws over melee"  I finally got them to at least carry ranged weapons when I convinced the DM to let me control a lvl 4 raptoran archer vs the whole group when they were lvl 7.  It didn't end well for the party.
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