Off-topic chatter

[Kuroimaken]

Unless... we use a patsy.

[Bozwevial]

You mean like Sammael?

[Agita]

Well... what if the diplomatic party members try to talk to CoD while the stealthy party members get in position to yoink the Lochnar if a signal is given? Glibness is a 3rd level Bard spell, so convincing CoD of something shouldn't be too hard... We might be simply overthinking the issue.

[Kuroimaken]

*Raoul whistles innocently at his maxed ranks in bluff plus the fact he's a primarily Charisma-based spellcaster* "What?"

Just remember bluff ain't diplomacy. We may be able to convince him of something that's not real but that doesn't mean he'll give us what we need.

[Agita]

*Raoul whistles innocently at his maxed ranks in bluff plus the fact he's a primarily Charisma-based spellcaster* "What?"

Just remember bluff ain't diplomacy. We may be able to convince him of something that's not real but that doesn't mean he'll give us what we need.

something that's not real

You mean something like "CoD's best option in regards to survival and personal gain, both immediate and long-term, is to give us the Lochnar"?

[Kuroimaken]

*Raoul whistles innocently at his maxed ranks in bluff plus the fact he's a primarily Charisma-based spellcaster* "What?"

Just remember bluff ain't diplomacy. We may be able to convince him of something that's not real but that doesn't mean he'll give us what we need.

something that's not real

You mean something like "CoD's best option in regards to survival and personal gain, both immediate and long-term, is to give us the Lochnar"?

Fine. If we're going with this route, though, then there's no kill like overkill.

First order of business: figure out what in the hierarchy of the Abyss does a Balor fears more than ANOTHER Balor. Then PAO/Shapechange into it, for starters.
Second order of business: make sure to overbuff the SHIT out of my bluff mod.

[Agita]

First order of business: figure out what in the hierarchy of the Abyss does a Balor fears more than ANOTHER Balor. Then PAO/Shapechange into it, for starters.

I think the Abyss doesn't so much have a hierarchy as simply a sorting algorithm of badass, with demon lords at the top and balors pretty damn close. Luckily, Fiend Folio does introduce a non-lord kind of demon that's another notch above balors on the badass scale, the klurichirs.

It takes something truly horrifying to frighten the greater demons of the Abyss. If balors do have nightmares, they can probably be attributed to the klurichirs. Some demons say these creatures serve as generals under the greatest Abyssal lords.

20 hit dice, like balors, but CR 25.

[Kuroimaken]

First order of business: figure out what in the hierarchy of the Abyss does a Balor fears more than ANOTHER Balor. Then PAO/Shapechange into it, for starters.

I think the Abyss doesn't so much have a hierarchy as simply a sorting algorithm of badass, with demon lords at the top and balors pretty damn close. Luckily, Fiend Folio does introduce a non-lord kind of demon that's another notch above balors on the badass scale, the klurichirs.

It takes something truly horrifying to frighten the greater demons of the Abyss. If balors do have nightmares, they can probably be attributed to the klurichirs. Some demons say these creatures serve as generals under the greatest Abyssal lords.

20 hit dice, like balors, but CR 25.

Shapechange specifies no specific creatures, but if we make this one majestic enough, we won't NEED anything specific.
We should probably disguise the rest of the party accordingly though.

[Agita]

First order of business: figure out what in the hierarchy of the Abyss does a Balor fears more than ANOTHER Balor. Then PAO/Shapechange into it, for starters.

I think the Abyss doesn't so much have a hierarchy as simply a sorting algorithm of badass, with demon lords at the top and balors pretty damn close. Luckily, Fiend Folio does introduce a non-lord kind of demon that's another notch above balors on the badass scale, the klurichirs.

It takes something truly horrifying to frighten the greater demons of the Abyss. If balors do have nightmares, they can probably be attributed to the klurichirs. Some demons say these creatures serve as generals under the greatest Abyssal lords.

20 hit dice, like balors, but CR 25.

Shapechange specifies no specific creatures, but if we make this one majestic enough, we won't NEED anything specific.
We should probably disguise the rest of the party accordingly though.

Not a specific creature. Klurichirs is the plural, not a name.
Shapechange caps the form at your HD, though, so PAO would be needed. The rest of the party is kinda mostly demonic or half-demonic already except for Marlowe, so I don't see that being a big problem.

[Bozwevial]

And if we're planning to have Marlowe and RJ sneak around to find the Lochnar, they probably don't need disguises. That said, with Phaedrus' polymorph rules, Polymorph Any Object doesn't exist. We'd need a Greater Polymorph, which we can do with a Wish, but we only get one of those per day. We also can't just get Sammael to bring us scrolls, since you can't cast from those.

[Kuroimaken]

We should aim for obscurity then. Something the Balor won't suspect.

[VennDygrem]

Hmmm... there's got to be something I can contribute to this. Hopefully I can think of something once I'm home and can reference my sheet more easily. Then again, I'm not sure "punching through people's chests" is going to help in this exchange. 

[Kuroimaken]

Hmmm... there's got to be something I can contribute to this. Hopefully I can think of something once I'm home and can reference my sheet more easily. Then again, I'm not sure "punching through people's chests" is going to help in this exchange. 

It might, as a distraction.

[HeadofVecna]

Maybe we should try to avoid making skill checks of any kind against the general. If he has level appropriate buff items, then things are unlikely to go well. In the Myth Drannor teleport key, we have something he needs. But its unlikely to be as valuable as the Lochnar. Perhaps if we ran word up the infernal chain of command through Sammy, pressure can be applied to broker a trade.

[Kuroimaken]

Maybe we should try to avoid making skill checks of any kind against the general. If he has level appropriate buff items, then things are unlikely to go well. In the Myth Drannor teleport key, we have something he needs. But its unlikely to be as valuable as the Lochnar. Perhaps if we ran word up the infernal chain of command through Sammy, pressure can be applied to broker a trade.

Hmmm. That idea has merit. But doesn't the whole "devils and demons don't trust each other" thing get in the way? That's the reason the affidavit wouldn't work, as I recall.

I'd say there's a chance the general is geared up for battle, so detecting lies might not be a priority. But you're right in that it's a risky proposition at best.

[VennDygrem]

Besides, would there also be consequences to giving the key to the General? I mean, I can't think of any right now since the demons win at Myth Drannor anyway, to my recollection, but it might still be something to think about. Or maybe not. I'm kind of sick right now, brain no thinky so good.

[Kuroimaken]

Besides, would there also be consequences to giving the key to the General? I mean, I can't think of any right now since the demons win at Myth Drannor anyway, to my recollection, but it might still be something to think about. Or maybe not. I'm kind of sick right now, brain no thinky so good.

Easiest I can think of is that giving the Key would allow the demons considerable tactical advantage. They could go from "simply" squashing Myth Drannor to utterly conquering the rest of Faerûn.

[Prime32]

You'll just have to go back in time afterwards and kill the General as a dretch then.

[Kuroimaken]

Hmmm. Good thing the Lochnar prevents time paradoxes.

[PhaedrusXY]

Hmmm. Good thing the Lochnar prevents time paradoxes.

What gave you that idea?