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Author Topic: Important Pathfinder Optimization Information  (Read 9727 times)
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The_Mad_Linguist
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 8780


Simulated Thing


« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2009, 08:23:24 PM »

But, here's a silly idea: play a =http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/choker.html#chokerChoker.

That's right, you could be snorting pixie dust while chugging 40's and casting magic missiles, because a choker's Quickness rocks just that hard.   (Sadly, I couldn't find the awesome guide to Chokers on 339)
Here you go. I got that one bookmarked. Big Grin
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866002/THIS_IS_A_THREAD_THAT_WILL_BECOME_A_HANDBOOK
Man, I'm totally tempted to make a sharn handbook now.

Then I come to my senses, and realize that I don't have the time or reloiable computer for it.


Every sharn can wield NINE WEAPONS.  Your WHOLE PARTY can't wield NINE WEAPONS
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Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
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telehax
Bi-Curious George
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2009, 08:52:52 PM »

I'm pretty sure those munchkins holding Eager, Warning etc Arrows will debate that.
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Operation Shoestring
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2009, 10:41:26 PM »

I'm pretty sure those munchkins holding Eager, Warning etc Arrows will debate that.
Why didn't i think of that?  silly me, getting a legacy weapon!
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Negative Zero
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2009, 12:42:25 AM »

But then the problem with it being a guideline was that to integrate it into a rulebook they would need to look at every single monster individually and convert it. Which paizo apparently did. So, the brute force method worked.
I guess.

Brute force always works. If it doesn't work, you aren't using enough brute force.
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CountArioch
Man in Gorilla Suit
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I <3 termites

CountArioch@hotmail.com CountArioch ariochisgreat
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2009, 12:53:39 AM »

Yeah, the CR +1 rule tends to break down on anything with the "AWESOME" tag (dragons, most outsiders), puzzle monsters (trolls, hydras, pixies), but tended to work well with more straitforward monsters.  (Bugbear at 3rd level, Ogres at 4th, etc.)
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She hasn't come to crush your bones, nor tear your flesh
She has come to steal your sanity with just one glance

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Brainpiercing
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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 06:51:07 AM »

Yeah, the CR +1 rule tends to break down on anything with the "AWESOME" tag (dragons, most outsiders), puzzle monsters (trolls, hydras, pixies), but tended to work well with more straitforward monsters.  (Bugbear at 3rd level, Ogres at 4th, etc.)
Hmm... I use a CR+0 to 3 rule, using both the type of RHD the monster would give as well as general awesome (or not) of the monster, AND the all-important THUMB, to gauge how many HD the critter should get.

Also, there is a rough gauge like this: Per HD, a critter can get 6 points of ability bonus or natural armour AND one minor ability, or fewer ability points and a major ability. This works out quite well. Rule of thumb still applies. So for a first rough gauge, divide the number of net ability boosts by 6 and sort the other abilities, then assign HD. If the result is somehow weird, either change the point-buy, or add/remove another HD. OR add/subtract an ability.... then season to taste.

That way, for instance, you don't get FULL-casting critters WITH ability boosts anymore, since the player would always have to add a few HD.
For example, in my system the Aranea had 5HD/4th level sorc casting, the Lammasu 9HD, 7th level Cleric casting (albeit I DID allow domains). But these were more ad-libbed than anything else.
I also added that the CL for SLAs is always your HD, it can't be higher, and you can't cast SLAs or spells you don't meet the level requirements for (as in, usually Wizard or Cleric level required to cast the spell.). That helps, sometimes.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:02:19 AM by Brainpiercing » Logged
kobo1d
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 08:29:06 PM »

Yeah, the CR +1 rule tends to break down on anything with the "AWESOME" tag (dragons, most outsiders), puzzle monsters (trolls, hydras, pixies), but tended to work well with more straitforward monsters.  (Bugbear at 3rd level, Ogres at 4th, etc.)
Hmm... I use a CR+0 to 3 rule, using both the type of RHD the monster would give as well as general awesome (or not) of the monster, AND the all-important THUMB, to gauge how many HD the critter should get.

Also, there is a rough gauge like this: Per HD, a critter can get 6 points of ability bonus or natural armour AND one minor ability, or fewer ability points and a major ability. This works out quite well. Rule of thumb still applies. So for a first rough gauge, divide the number of net ability boosts by 6 and sort the other abilities, then assign HD. If the result is somehow weird, either change the point-buy, or add/remove another HD. OR add/subtract an ability.... then season to taste.

That way, for instance, you don't get FULL-casting critters WITH ability boosts anymore, since the player would always have to add a few HD.
For example, in my system the Aranea had 5HD/4th level sorc casting, the Lammasu 9HD, 7th level Cleric casting (albeit I DID allow domains). But these were more ad-libbed than anything else.
I also added that the CL for SLAs is always your HD, it can't be higher, and you can't cast SLAs or spells you don't meet the level requirements for (as in, usually Wizard or Cleric level required to cast the spell.). That helps, sometimes.

So, no Drider 7/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/(Full Wizard Progression PrC) 3, then?
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Brainpiercing
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2009, 07:06:55 AM »

Yeah, the CR +1 rule tends to break down on anything with the "AWESOME" tag (dragons, most outsiders), puzzle monsters (trolls, hydras, pixies), but tended to work well with more straitforward monsters.  (Bugbear at 3rd level, Ogres at 4th, etc.)
Hmm... I use a CR+0 to 3 rule, using both the type of RHD the monster would give as well as general awesome (or not) of the monster, AND the all-important THUMB, to gauge how many HD the critter should get.

Also, there is a rough gauge like this: Per HD, a critter can get 6 points of ability bonus or natural armour AND one minor ability, or fewer ability points and a major ability. This works out quite well. Rule of thumb still applies. So for a first rough gauge, divide the number of net ability boosts by 6 and sort the other abilities, then assign HD. If the result is somehow weird, either change the point-buy, or add/remove another HD. OR add/subtract an ability.... then season to taste.

That way, for instance, you don't get FULL-casting critters WITH ability boosts anymore, since the player would always have to add a few HD.
For example, in my system the Aranea had 5HD/4th level sorc casting, the Lammasu 9HD, 7th level Cleric casting (albeit I DID allow domains). But these were more ad-libbed than anything else.
I also added that the CL for SLAs is always your HD, it can't be higher, and you can't cast SLAs or spells you don't meet the level requirements for (as in, usually Wizard or Cleric level required to cast the spell.). That helps, sometimes.

So, no Drider 7/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/(Full Wizard Progression PrC) 3, then?

Well, I've privately made the Ur-Priest (and all other fast-progression casting PrCs) epic PrCs, because obviously being able to get a ton of ability boost via RHD and then getting 9th level casting in 10 levels really doesn't serve the purpose of balancing non-casters vs. casters.
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DavidWL
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« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2010, 02:17:34 AM »

+1 on the Sharn handbook.  A cool caster, a cool theurge, an awesome melee.

Frank and K's stuff is wonderful, and their "play a monster and adjust the HD and then eyeball" is the best I've seen.  (Most monsters as PCs is pretty bad).

Best,
David
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Nunkuruji
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« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2010, 10:17:21 AM »

Mind Flayer / Illithid Savant would be so much fun

CR8 / 8HD / dump the 7 LA, makes it campaign playable.

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Havok4
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It can only be attributable to human error.


« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2010, 10:32:21 AM »

I will agree with what other people are saying in that this type of system would generally work better then the current LA system but it is much easier to break wide open than the current system. A possibility is to add some points to the CR of any monster capable of spell casting or who has very good spell like abilities, which seems to be where most of the brokenness comes from.
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Suzerain
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« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2010, 07:33:46 PM »

 Evil Laugh

As has been apparent in another thread, I have to laugh like a maniac thinking of the new possibilities.

Every creature with racial HD (effectively) get their CR lowered every 3 levels (CR/2 times max). That. Is crazy. I love it.

I'd still not want to play the high-CR stuff though (though Planetar looks juicy).

No real time for evil plots, and no PF game in sight, but it sounds like many monsters could now be (more than) playable. I do have to concede the point on that though... DMs will either dismiss the entire system (i.e. forbid playing monsters) or will probably have knee-jerk reactions to everything that is interesting (I think the Drider would work in a couple real games though. Some DMs don't get how powerful spells are).
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Nunkuruji
Bi-Curious George
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2010, 09:39:38 PM »

Banelar from... Monsters of Faerun? would be pretty crazy too
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