Soulknife: can it work?

[KellKheraptis]

All Soulknifes can use a Mind Blade.  That's kind of all they can do as written.

Sorry, wasn't very clear : non-PsyWar, non-soulknife.  As in can this be ass-ended onto an Erudite or Psion?

Well, any manifester can get access to the call weaponry power, though I'm fairly sure it's a different weapon each time you call it, unless your DM rules otherwise.

So...maybe.

Hmm...ok, so sounds like a 2 level dip on an Ardent then, if you want a REAL mindblade that way, unless Call Weapon works.

[Operation Shoestring]

You know, I actually was playing with the idea of a legacy weapon that was the "physical fragment of the embodiment of the idea of a weapon", and was based on the call weapon power, meant for VOP characters... couldn't think of a good way to circumvent the ritual costs though....

[jinquan]

Spare me for asking  I am new here .. I like to know more about the  weapon soulknife and how it works. As I saw in another thread it was still in production, but here you are talking about the usage of it. I am confused 

[Zombieboots]

Okay, quick question on worthwhile feats: Psycarnum Blade.  Yay, nay?

Using the feat variant Soulknife take Psycarnum Blade plus Psycarnum infusion?

At very least it is better then mind strike and you still get two feats out of it.

[Hijax]

Spare me for asking  I am new here .. I like to know more about the  weapon soulknife and how it works. As I saw in another thread it was still in production, but here you are talking about the usage of it. I am confused 

"Soulknife" is a class from the expanded psionics handbook. Its a 3/4 bab class that gets the ability to create a sword made from mental energies at will - as he progresses this sword becomes a magical weapon.

it is basically a very sucky class bacause the mind blade, as it is called, is just about the same as other weapons of that level, and the class doesn't get a lot of features besides that.

[Daedalus]

*Casts Animate Thread*

I'd like to point out that the Mind Arrow Enhancement does not stack with the normal Mind Blade Enhancement.  It is stated explicitly in the last line of text plus the fact that it only mentions Ranged Weapon Qualities.

What I do find more interesting is the line under Mind Arrow(Su): "Likewise, these enhancement bonuses also improve your soulknife base attack bonus. If your return to your soulknife class progression, these mind arrow enhancement bonuses on attack and damage are cumulative bonuses on top of any new enhancement bonuses gained, and they benefit both your mind blade and mind arrows."  (source; First Printing & Web Excerpt)

Which would imply that you can add the Enhancement bonus of your Mind Weapon to your BAB, which would improve the Soulknife nicely.  I've read a couple of accounts of this; mostly being dismissed as an error although;

Considering that an Enhancement bonus to your Ability scores improves your spellslots, save dcs, power points, saving throws, armor class, skills, etc.  It doesn't sound that unlikely to allow the addition to BAB by this feature.

There are a couple of negative points though;
Strength & Weapon Enhancements do not improve BAB; yet it is literally mentioned in the rules text of the ability that this Enhancement bonus does in fact improve BAB. Whether this is an editting error, intended design, revision error° we will never know since there was no Complete Psionic Errata. 

The Illumine Soul uses a different model for stacking than the Soulbow; simply stating that the IS levels stack with SK for Mindblade Enhancements & Weapon Qualities.  My explanation why this is done differently could be the fact that the class is 5 levels vs 10 for the Soulbow, allowing easier enhancement of the base class while the Soulbow is more clearly defined as an offshoot prestige class from the baseclass (melee vs ranged).

Presumably the BAB Enhancement would "turn on" whenever your Mind Blade/Arrow receive an Enhancement bonus (@Soulbow 3 or Soulknife 5).  Logically, it would "turn off" whenever you'd attack with a non-Mind Weapon.

°Extrapolation: doesn't strike me as very farfetched that in an early version of the Soulknife they had this line added to the Mindblade class feature with the Medium BAB in place to emphisize the Mindblade and as a means of preventing certain overlap with PsyWar (which does gain manifesting).  Remember; the EXPH Errata did fix some errors with the BAB listing of the Soulknife, so they did fiddle with it somehow)

If anyone has an idea if they did other printruns of the book (EXPH or Complete Psionic) (other language or second printing), maybe there were some changes to the text of Mindblade/Arrow?  If not then I'd definatly use this and incorporate the BAB enhancement line in the Mindblade feature...

Thoughts?

[snakeman830]

Except, you know, that the Mind Arrow ability states that the Mind Blade enhancement bonus and the Mind Arrow enhancement bonus stack...

You really brought back a dead thread (the game isn't even going on anymore) to say nothing we didn't already know.

[awaken DM golem]

Soulknife 1 / PsyWar X into a Big Guy build.
but use the Elemental Envoy instead of the Psicrystal.
No where near as borkny.
Mini "Thing" is the party face.

[X-Codes]

Better Soulknife
Better Soulbow

[Daedalus]

Except, you know, that the Mind Arrow ability states that the Mind Blade enhancement bonus and the Mind Arrow enhancement bonus stack...

You really brought back a dead thread (the game isn't even going on anymore) to say nothing we didn't already know.

Mind Arrow Enhancement (Su): At 2nd level, you can
enhance your mind arrows with ranged special abilities.
Choose any one of the weapon special abilities on the table
below that has an enhancement bonus value of +1. From now
on, mind arrows you produce as part of an attack possess that
special ability.
At every four levels beyond 2nd (6th and 10th), the value of
the enhancement you can add to your mind arrow improves
to +2 and +3, respectively. You can choose any combination
of weapon special abilities that does not exceed the total
allowed by your soulbow level.
The special ability provided by this class feature does not
stack with the soulknife’s mind blade enhancement ability.

It does not state that the Weapon Quality ability stacks, in fact it states that it doesn't.  Weapon enhancement & Weapon quality enhancement are 2 different things...

If the BAB thing was such old news, why didn't anyone except Brainpiercing (4th reply) mention it and nobody actually made note of that statement?

That the discussion wheter your proposed character is workable has indeed past its date however this seemed a nice thread to bring back to discuss this further.

[sir_argenon]

It does not state that the Weapon Quality ability stacks, in fact it states that it doesn't.  Weapon enhancement & Weapon quality enhancement are 2 different things...

If the BAB thing was such old news, why didn't anyone except Brainpiercing (4th reply) mention it and nobody actually made note of that statement?

That the discussion wheter your proposed character is workable has indeed past its date however this seemed a nice thread to bring back to discuss this further.

Hi Welcome  

(did i do that right) ?

[carnivore]

It does not state that the Weapon Quality ability stacks, in fact it states that it doesn't.  Weapon enhancement & Weapon quality enhancement are 2 different things...

he was refering to the part that i have bolded from the Class Features section:

Mind Arrow (Su): As a free action, you can create a semisolid arrow composed of psychic energy distilled from your mind. If your base attack bonus is high enough to grant you multiple attacks, you can create multiple mind arrows as part of an attack. You must have one hand free to create and project a mind arrow.

The bolt is identical in all ways (except visually) to an arrow shot from a composite longbow. For instance, a Medium soulbow materializes an arrow that speeds toward the specified target, and if it hits, deals 1d8 points of damage (crit x3) plus extra damage equal to the soulbow's Wisdom modifier. Soulbows who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind arrows identical to arrows shot from composite longbows appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the arrow's damage (see Table 7-4 and Table 7-5 in the Player's Handbook). You gain the usual benefit to your attack roll from a high Dexterity bonus.

Whether a mind arrow hits or misses, it dissipates 1 round after being shot. A mind arrow is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A mind arrow can be charged with a psychic strike as if it were a mind blade. If a soulbow has enough soulknife levels to have the knife to the soul ability, that ability also applies to her mind arrows.

You can use feats such as Point Blank Shot or Precise Shot in conjunction with a mind arrow (see bonus feats provided by the class for further guidance). You can also choose mind arrow for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade. Any feats previously requiring specific weapon choice (such as Weapon Specialization) for your mind blade also apply to your mind arrow, if applicable.

Your mind arrows improve as you gain higher levels. At 3rd level, a mind arrow gains a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls, and at 7th level the bonus improves to +2. These enhancement bonuses stack with previous enhancement bonuses gained earlier for your soulknife class levels. Likewise, these enhancement bonuses also improve your soulknife base attack bonus.If your return to your soulknife class progression, these mind arrow enhancement bonuses on attack and damage are cumulative bonuses on top of any new enhancement bonuses gained, and they benefit both your mind blade and mind arrows.

Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), you can attempt to attack foes with mind arrows by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, you can freely produce mind arrows for a number of rounds equal to your class level before you need to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, you must wait 1 round before trying again while you remain within the psionics-negating effect.

If the BAB thing was such old news, why didn't anyone except Brainpiercing (4th reply) mention it and nobody actually made note of that statement?

because ... then they have to explain why WoTC are Idiots in the way they Edit thier releases, and why it works RAW ..... most play with a Gentlemans Agreement to ignore the part about adding to the BAB, but as written it does boost BAB

this was brought out .... way back when Complete Psionic was first introduced(on the WoTC Boards(339 as some put it))


 

[snakeman830]

Really, it makes sense.  The Mind Blade should have the same tageline.  The weapon is a part of you: why can't you be better with it than any other weapon?

[fuinjutsu]

Was there ever a ruling on whether you can fire mindarrows from a bow?

[carnivore]

Was there ever a ruling on whether you can fire mindarrows from a bow?

No you cant .... you form them "already" flying towards the target

 

[Daedalus]

Carnivore; i know that, point is you have 2 "enhancement" values: 1 for attack & damage modifier ("+5 mindblade") and one with which you buy the weapon's abilities (weapon qualities); the mind arrow enhancement which is used to buy qualities doesn't add to the quality buy pool for the mindblade and vice versa.  What you quoted is that part where they add up the attack & damage enhancements; the part where they state that the qualities don't stack in mentioned in the other class feature, which i quoted & bolded.

If you're a 10 Soulknife & 10 soulbow you can't buy more qualities than a total value of +3 for the mind arrows and +2 for the mind blade since this ability doesn't stack with the mindblade enhancements.  The attack and damage enhancement of your mind arrows would be +4 total, same for your mindblade.

Imo, they shouldn't hace used "enhancement" twice in this context but oh well.

BAB adding should have happened

Anyway: Snakeman, how did that character pan out in the end for you?

[snakeman830]

You really expect me to remember it from over a year ago?  I'm ready to just let the thread die again like it had long ago.

[awaken DM golem]

But this is the place, to not remember what you've posted before, about the Soulknife.