The Marshal - Redesigned

[bkdubs123]

Marshal

"Charge with me men and roar like lions! Over that hill lies victory and with it - immortality!" - Elysaire, Dwarf Marshal

HD: d10

Saves: Good Will, Poor Fortitude and Reflex

LV  Base Attack Bonus    Class Features                   Maneuvers    Auras Known  Auras Active
1.   +1                  Fearless, Battlefield Presence       2             2             1
2.   +2                  Marshal's Command 1/enc              2             2             1
3.   +3                  Hero's Luck +1                       2             2             1
4.   +4                                                       2             3             1
5.   +5                  Zealous Surge 1/day                  3             3             1
6.   +6/+1                                                    3             3             2
7.   +7/+2               Marshal's Command 2/enc              3             3             2
8.   +8/+3               Bonus Feat                           3             4             2
9.   +9/+4                                                    4             4             2
10.  +10/+5              Follow Me To Victory                 4             4             2
11.  +11/+6/+1           Hero's Luck +2                       4             4             2
12.  +12/+7/+2           Marshal's Command 3/enc              4             4             2
13.  +13/+8/+3                                                5             5             2
14.  +14/+9/+4           Bonus Feat                           5             5             2
15.  +15/+10/5           Unshakable Resolve 1/day             5             5             2
16.  +16/+11/+6/+1                                            5             5             3
17.  +17/+12/+7/+2       Marshal's Command 4/enc              6             5             3
18.  +18/+13/+8/+3                                            6             6             3
19.  +19/+14/+9/+4       Hero's Luck +3                       6             6             3
20.  +20/+15/+10/+5      To Hell And Back, Bonus Feat         6             6             3

Class Skills (4+Int): Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, and Swim.

Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, as well as light, medium, and heavy armor, and all shields (including Tower Shields).

Maneuvers: Marshals know a very small number of martial maneuvers drawn from the Devoted Spirit, Iron Heart, and White Raven disciplines. To recover his maneuvers he must spend a full-round action discussing strategy and offering encouragement to his allies. This has the side effect of healing allies adjacent to him an amount equal to twice his character level, and healing all allies within 60ft an amount equal to his character level.

The number in the above table under the maneuvers heading reflects the number of maneuvers the Marshal knows. All maneuvers known by a Marshal are considered readied.

At fourth level and every four levels thereafter a Marshal may choose to lose any maneuver he knows in order to learn a new maneuver of any level available to him. Marshals do not learn stances like other initiators.

Auras: Instead of stances, Marshals learn and use a number of Auras. These effects provide Morale type bonuses to allies within 60ft. Starting at 1st level, a Marshal can only activate a single aura at a time, but this number increases at 6th level, and by one every ten levels thereafter.

Activating an aura is a swift action, though when a Marshal is able to project more than one aura at a time he is able to project as many or as few auras with this action as he likes, up to the number of auras he is able to have active. A Marshal is able to have an aura active continuously, and thus is able to have an aura active even at the start of a battle, before he has gotten a turn.

To benefit from an aura, his allies must have an Intelligence score of at least 3, be able to hear and understand the Marshal's language, and not be dazed, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or dead. Likewise, if the Marshal is dazed, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, dead, or otherwise unable to communicate verbally with his allies, his auras cease to function. A Marshal is able to benefit from his own auras.

AURAS

Accurate Strike - Int/Cha to confirm crits, also ignore 5% miss chance for attacks per point of modifier.
Art of War - Int/Cha to rolls made to initiate and resist bull rushes, disarms, sunders, and trips.
Demand Fortitude - Int/Cha to Fortitude saves.
Determined Caster - Int/Cha to caster level checks and spell penetration checks.
Force of Will - Int/Cha to Will saves.
Master of Opportunity - Int/Cha to opportunity attacks, and to AC against them.
Motivate (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) - Int/Cha to your choice of Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha ability and skill checks, chosen when you activate aura.
Over the Top - Int/Cha to all damage rolls (weapon, spell, etc).
Trained Reflexes - Int/Cha to Reflex saves.
Hardy Soldiers* - 1/2 Int/Cha as Damage Reduction.
Exercise Caution* - 1/2 Int/Cha to AC and Initiative.
Urgent Step* - +5ft speed per two points of Int/Cha modifier.
Melee Smash* - 1/2 Int/Cha to melee attack rolls.
Steady Hand* - 1/2 Int/Cha to ranged attack rolls.

Fearless (Ex): Marshals are immune to fear effects of all kinds.

Battlefield Presence (Ex): At first level, you must make the choice whether to be a Tactical Commander or an Inspiring Commander. This choice effects your Auras, and grants you a special class feature as described below.

Tactical Commander - Your auras are effected by your Intelligence modifier. Further, whenever your party rolls Initiative, add your Intelligence modifier to the character that rolled lowest. Finally, whenever an ally flanks with you, that character gains an additional bonus to attack rolls equal to your Hero's Luck bonus, and deals additional damage equal to your Intelligence modifier.

Inspiring Commander - Your auras are effected by your Charisma modifier. Further, whenever an adjacent ally hits with an attack or succeeds on a saving throw that character regains hitpoints equal to 1/2 your Marshal level +your Charisma modifier. Finally, whenever you roll a natural 19 or 20 on an attack roll or saving throw, all allies within 60ft regain hitpoints equal to your 1/2 your Marshal level+your Charisma modifier and gain a bonus to saves for 1 round equal to your Hero's Luck bonus.

Marshal's Command (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Marshal is able to use his significant ability to lead to grant his allies extra actions or to force his foes to obey him. Once per encounter, as a standard action, a Marshal may grant all allies within 60ft an immediate move action, or may target a single foe with a Command effect as the spell. A Marshal gains additional uses of this ability every five levels hereafter. The saving throw to resist a Marshal's Command is 10+1/2Marshal level+your Intelligence modifier if you are a Tactical Commander, or +your Charisma modifier if you are an Inspiring Commander.

At 7th level, a Marshal may spend two uses of this ability to grant all allies within 60ft an immediate move action as well as the ability to make a single attack during that action, or he may target a single foe with a Suggestion effect as the spell.

At 12th level, a Marshal may spend three uses of this ability to grant all allies within 60ft an immediate standard action, or he may produce a Greater Command effect as the spell.

At 17th level, a Marshal may spend four uses of this ability to grant all allies within 60ft an immediate standard action and move action, or he may produce a Mass Suggestion effect as the spell.

Hero's Luck (Ex): At 3rd level, a Marshal receives a +1 bonus to all saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 every eight levels hereafter.

Zealous Surge (Ex): Starting at 5th level, once per day, your boundless energy and dedication allow you to reroll a single saving throw. You must use this ability before the DM tells you whether or not your original save succeeded or failed, and you must abide by the result of the reroll even if it is worse than your original roll. This ability requires no action.

Bonus Feats: At 8th level and every six levels thereafter you gain a bonus feat which are be drawn from the Fighter's list of bonus feats. You must qualify for these feats as normal.

Follow Me To Victory (Ex): Starting at 10th level, all allies within 60ft and able to benefit from a your auras are immune to fear effects of all kinds.

Unshakable Resolve (Ex): After reaching 15th level, your deeds and spirit have become truly legendary. Once per day you may choose to cause you and all allies within 60 ft. to automatically succeed on a single saving throw against a single affect that targets or includes you. This ability is in addition to, not taking the place of, your zealous surge ability.

To Hell And Back (Ex): At 20th level your peerless command is such that your allies fear neither death nor pain in your company. All allies within 60ft and able to benefit from your auras are immune to Death effects, energy damage and drain, and you may spend four uses of your Marshal's Command ability to mimic the effects of the Revivify spell.

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So, take the original class, strip out the Major Auras (mostly) then add in equal measures of Stormwind's Sublime Marshal, Heroes of Battle's Legendary Leader, and a bit of original content and see what develops. I enjoy the results.

[bkdubs123]

Marshal Feats

Sublime Aura
Prerequisites: One Aura known, One Stance known
Benefit: Any Stance you know is also considered to be an Aura you know, allowing you to activate it as an aura to extend its benefits to allies within 60ft. You may enter a stance, and activate it as an aura with the same swift action.

Marshal's Will
Prerequisites: Battlefield Presence class feature, Ability to ready 1st level maneuvers
Benefit: You may recover all expended maneuvers by spending an immediate action whenever you or an adjacent ally succeed on a Will save.

Extra Command
Prerequisites: Marshal's Command class feature
Benefit: You gain an additional use of your Marshal's Command ability each encounter.
Special: You may take this feat any number of times.

Project Aura
Prerequisites: Int or Cha 13
Benefit: Choose either Intelligence or Charisma, then choose an Aura from the Marshal's list of auras. You learn and are able to use that aura as if you were a Marshal. The aura's effect is based on which ability score you chose. DEEMED TOO POWERFUL

[RobbyPants]

All in all, I like it.

I particuarly like the recovery method for maneuvers.  It's not that potent in terms of HP healed, but it's certainly better than blowing a full round meditating, or something lame like that.

The Sublime Aura feat could be particularly potent with certain stances.  I forget the name, but the law-based 6th level Devoted Spirit that lets you treat d20 rolls as natural 11s could be awesome if granted to all your allies.  I don't remember if its attack rolls or all d20 rolls.  If it's the latter, worrying about Spell Resistance is a thing of the past (for non-conjurers ).

[MasterVega]

All in all, I like it.

I particuarly like the recovery method for maneuvers.  It's not that potent in terms of HP healed, but it's certainly better than blowing a full round meditating, or something lame like that.

The Sublime Aura feat could be particularly potent with certain stances.  I forget the name, but the law-based 6th level Devoted Spirit that lets you treat d20 rolls as natural 11s could be awesome if granted to all your allies.  I don't remember if its attack rolls or all d20 rolls.  If it's the latter, worrying about Spell Resistance is a thing of the past (for non-conjurers ).

Aura of Perfect Order, and it's all d20 rolls. It's only one roll per round, but still.

Let's not forget Aura of Chaos. It makes all damage rolls exploding. You're the rogue/blaster's new best friend.

EDIT: Really liking the class, though. I'd like to see how some of the higher-level abilities stand up to playtesting.

[Soda]

I like it a lot.

I think the Project Aura feat is a little too good, though. A feat that lets you grant your whole party Int/Cha to anything? That's a good feat.

[bkdubs123]

I like it a lot.

Glad to hear. I always liked the feel of the Legendary Leader PrC and after looking at it again yesterday I decided to rewrite the Marshal accordingly.

I think the Project Aura feat is a little too good, though. A feat that lets you grant your whole party Int/Cha to anything? That's a good feat.

Good point. My first instinct is to raise the prerequisite requirements, but I'd want to require another feat at least. I'm not sure what to do with this. Thoughts?

[bihlbo]

Project Aura needs to say that you are able to use the aura as if you were a level 1 marshal.

I think the Project Aura feat is a little too good, though. A feat that lets you grant your whole party Int/Cha to anything? That's a good feat.

I say the feat is good. As it is, if you want the feat and are considering a dip into fighter, a dip into marshal is far superior in every way except the Fort save boost, and you get what this feat would give you, but better. Limiting it to only 1 known aura is a good enough limitation (you don't get to add a bonus to anything - it's the same bonus every time), but I would add something to the feat that says:
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time you take this feat you learn one additional aura.

This allows even a marshal to benefit from the feat, as it gives him more known auras without altering the number of auras he/she can have active.

Of course, this is all assuming that the aura ability of the marshal is balanced and not "too good" to begin with.

[bkdubs123]

but I would add something to the feat that says:
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time you take this feat you learn one additional aura.

This allows even a marshal to benefit from the feat, as it gives him more known auras without altering the number of auras he/she can have active.

Yes, this was the original intent, so if I get around to "fixing" the feat that'll make the cut.

Of course, this is all assuming that the aura ability of the marshal is balanced and not "too good" to begin with.

Ah, there's the rub.

[bihlbo]

First of all, I like it a lot! Great job marrying the original class with the ToB paradigm. I understand that some of the criticisms I present below are against material you copied from other sources, but... well you know, that's what we do.


Comments
Fearless and Follow Me to Victory and To Hell and Back - Immunity is teh suck. Absolutes are never good.

Battlefield Presence - The abilities granted by Inspiring Commander are so much better than Tactical Commander, I don't see a reason to be a smarty-pants marshal. I mean, if you're level 10 and your allies are adjacent, an area spell cast against you means you cast a free-action reactive cure like wounds, mass, in effect. And if everyone throws a rock on their action, more healing all around. I'm not saying it's stupid, but it's good enough that a paltry initiative bonus for one character and bonuses when flanking just don't compete - especially when this is so specifically beneficial to melee attackers and no one else.
* Let me suggest that the marshal can switch between commanding tactically and inspiringly by restarting his active auras. This doesn't force the marshal to have a good Int and Cha bonus, but for those who have a positive modifier in both it presents other tactical options to keep things interesting. This would also prevent the marshal from being completely aura-less if he gets ability damage in his chosen commanding type's stat. He can just switch to the other.

Auras - I like the changes you made to auras. Instead of making this the main power of the class, you reduced their power and gave the class other abilities that involve being more proactive. A good change.
* I assume there's a reason for some listed auras to have an asterisk. Let me suggest that these auras can only be activated when a "lesser aura" is already active.
* I dislike "1/2 ability mod" bonuses quite a lot, since they greatly encourage players to have ability scores in multiples of 4. I would prefer level-based or static bonuses.
* It wasn't included in the write-up for the original marshal, but I strongly suggest that you type all aura bonuses as "aura bonuses." This prevents, for example, three marshals from adding a +11 bonus to an ally's already whored-out Diplomacy check. I know people who'd take Leadership and get a horde of marshals for this purpose alone. Auras shouldn't stack with one another. "How'd that skinny feller in the robe kill our general with a single sling shot, Vern?" / "Well, it's those four dozen marshals around him, Kyle. I recon that did about 80 damage." / "Huh? I don't think I can count that high, Vern." / "Leave the metagaming to me then, Kyle."

Unshakable Resolve - What if this extends to all allies within 60 ft. if the same effect affects them at the same time? This would be more in keeping with the flavor of the class, and it's a good ability considering the high level of it.

Editing - I'd have some editing suggestions for when you get mostly finished with this.

[bkdubs123]

Comments
Fearless and Follow Me to Victory and To Hell and Back - Immunity is teh suck. Absolutes are never good.

Eh, it's what 3.5 does. I see no reason to make the abilities worse than standard abilities that already do the same thing.

Battlefield Presence - The abilities granted by Inspiring Commander are so much better than Tactical Commander, I don't see a reason to be a smarty-pants marshal. I mean, if you're level 10 and your allies are adjacent, an area spell cast against you means you cast a free-action reactive cure like wounds, mass, in effect.

Not sure where you're getting that. Even if all of your allies are adjacent to you (not very likely), the only allies that get the healing are the ones that actually succeed on their saving throws.

And if everyone throws a rock on their action, more healing all around.

Again, that's just patently untrue. They'd only get the healing if their attack rolls actually hit, and with a rock... really not seeing it happening.

I'm not saying it's stupid, but it's good enough that a paltry initiative bonus for one character and bonuses when flanking just don't compete - especially when this is so specifically beneficial to melee attackers and no one else.

The reason I considered them balanced is because the Initiative thing is guaranteed to happen once every fight, and can really make a difference in the pacing of the fight. Also, flanking with an ally is likely to happen nearly every round of nearly every fight, whereas, in my experience, I'm hardly ever actually adjacent to my allies.

* Let me suggest that the marshal can switch between commanding tactically and inspiringly by restarting his active auras. This doesn't force the marshal to have a good Int and Cha bonus, but for those who have a positive modifier in both it presents other tactical options to keep things interesting. This would also prevent the marshal from being completely aura-less if he gets ability damage in his chosen commanding type's stat. He can just switch to the other.

It's something to consider, for sure, but I don't know how much I like it.

Auras - I like the changes you made to auras. Instead of making this the main power of the class, you reduced their power and gave the class other abilities that involve being more proactive. A good change.

Well, if anything on the whole I actually increased the power of the auras, although you're right, they still aren't the main power of the class.

* I assume there's a reason for some listed auras to have an asterisk. Let me suggest that these auras can only be activated when a "lesser aura" is already active.
* I dislike "1/2 ability mod" bonuses quite a lot, since they greatly encourage players to have ability scores in multiples of 4. I would prefer level-based or static bonuses.

Actually, the asterisks are just there to remind me that those are the 1/2 mod auras. Not sure why you have so much of a problem with them though. I assume people are going to max their Int or Cha, so 30 at 20th level is a +10 bonus from the non-asterisk auras, or a +5 bonus from the asterisked ones.

* It wasn't included in the write-up for the original marshal, but I strongly suggest that you type all aura bonuses as "aura bonuses." This prevents, for example, three marshals from adding a +11 bonus to an ally's already whored-out Diplomacy check. I know people who'd take Leadership and get a horde of marshals for this purpose alone. Auras shouldn't stack with one another. "How'd that skinny feller in the robe kill our general with a single sling shot, Vern?" / "Well, it's those four dozen marshals around him, Kyle. I recon that did about 80 damage." / "Huh? I don't think I can count that high, Vern." / "Leave the metagaming to me then, Kyle."

Good point. I don't know about an "aura bonus," but Morale bonuses don't stack and make perfect sense.

Unshakable Resolve - What if this extends to all allies within 60 ft. if the same effect affects them at the same time? This would be more in keeping with the flavor of the class, and it's a good ability considering the high level of it.

Not sure how I'd extend this to allies within 60. I figured an autosuccess save 1/day was good enough at that level.

Editing - I'd have some editing suggestions for when you get mostly finished with this.

Go for it. Right now I am a bit concerned that the auras are too powerful, but I can't come up with a good way to limit them.

[bihlbo]

And if everyone throws a rock on their action, more healing all around.

Again, that's just patently untrue. They'd only get the healing if their attack rolls actually hit, and with a rock... really not seeing it happening.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought one attack equals healing for everyone, but I see now that's closer to what I wrote. I understand the way it works as you've written it.

The reason I considered them balanced is because the Initiative thing is guaranteed to happen once every fight, and can really make a difference in the pacing of the fight. Also, flanking with an ally is likely to happen nearly every round of nearly every fight, whereas, in my experience, I'm hardly ever actually adjacent to my allies.

Yes, the initiative thing happens every fight, but it's not beneficial in every fight. For example, in many fights you'll see something like this: a +3 to a roll of 2, vs. the enemy's initiative of 18. Plus, this is for one character and after the first round it means diddly.

Also, I don't consider flanking to be a common tactic unless the group includes at least two melee-willing combatants and faces off against foes with poor tactics. I mean, in the game I'm playing now we have a wizard (never in melee), a ranger (always hiding, almost never in melee), and a fighter (the only one of us who bothers with melee weapons). If the fighter were a tactical marshal, there would be absolutely no benefit at all gained by the Battlefield Presence ability. Even when we've tried a flanking maneuver, most of the time the GM simply moves out of it because, surprise surprise, the bad guys don't like to give you the upper hand!

And yes you're right that being adjacent to a character is also situational. In the group I'm playing in now, if the fighter were an inspiring marshal, we'd have to change our tactics to attack while standing next to him for it to be a benefit.

So in the right kind of group, one with a rogue especially, the tactical marshal can shine. In any kind of group the inspiring marshal can shine. I don't have a problem with situational bonuses at all. But I don't really like feeling like my character build choices can be so easily negated by party makeup.

Not sure why you have so much of a problem with them though. I assume people are going to max their Int or Cha, so 30 at 20th level is a +10 bonus from the non-asterisk auras, or a +5 bonus from the asterisked ones.

I have so much of a problem with 1/2 mod bonuses because they greatly encourage players to have PC ability scores in multiples of 4.

Good point. I don't know about an "aura bonus," but Morale bonuses don't stack and make perfect sense.

While they make sense, morale bonuses are also extremely common, which reduces the effectiveness and utility of abilities of other classes and spells (especially bards). Now that I consider it, adding another type probably isn't that good an idea, but it would be enough to say that multiple auras overlap and do not stack, much in the same way it's worded for damage reduction.

Unshakable Resolve - Not sure how I'd extend this to allies within 60. I figured an autosuccess save 1/day was good enough at that level.

We differ on that, then. I don't think it's a very interesting ability for a character that's 3/4 of it's way to being epic.

Here's how I'd "do it":
Unshakable Resolve (Ex): After reaching 15th level, your deeds and spirit have become truly legendary. Once per day you may choose to cause you and all allies within 60 ft. to automatically succeed on a single saving throw against a single affect that targets or includes you. This ability is in addition to, not taking the place of, your zealous surge ability.

(It can still be used to auto-succeed on a save targetting only the marshal, but it also gives the option to allow his allies to save against a single fireball.)

[bkdubs123]

Yes, the initiative thing happens every fight, but it's not beneficial in every fight. For example, in many fights you'll see something like this: a +3 to a roll of 2, vs. the enemy's initiative of 18. Plus, this is for one character and after the first round it means diddly.

Also, I don't consider flanking to be a common tactic unless the group includes at least two melee-willing combatants and faces off against foes with poor tactics. I mean, in the game I'm playing now we have a wizard (never in melee), a ranger (always hiding, almost never in melee), and a fighter (the only one of us who bothers with melee weapons). If the fighter were a tactical marshal, there would be absolutely no benefit at all gained by the Battlefield Presence ability. Even when we've tried a flanking maneuver, most of the time the GM simply moves out of it because, surprise surprise, the bad guys don't like to give you the upper hand!

And yes you're right that being adjacent to a character is also situational. In the group I'm playing in now, if the fighter were an inspiring marshal, we'd have to change our tactics to attack while standing next to him for it to be a benefit.

So in the right kind of group, one with a rogue especially, the tactical marshal can shine. In any kind of group the inspiring marshal can shine. I don't have a problem with situational bonuses at all. But I don't really like feeling like my character build choices can be so easily negated by party makeup.

When you put it that way I'm starting to buy your argument, especially since the Marshal is such a solid warrior class in its own right. I would like to make the tactical marshal more useful to more groups, I'll just have to think of something else to use than the flanking thing.

I have so much of a problem with 1/2 mod bonuses because they greatly encourage players to have PC ability scores in multiples of 4.

You mean multiples of 4 added on to 10. In my experience players already do this. Nobody wants a noneven ability score, and getting higher primary ability scores is just the nature of the game.

While they make sense, morale bonuses are also extremely common, which reduces the effectiveness and utility of abilities of other classes and spells (especially bards). Now that I consider it, adding another type probably isn't that good an idea, but it would be enough to say that multiple auras overlap and do not stack, much in the same way it's worded for damage reduction.

I think I'd very much not want a Marshal's auras to stack with Bardic Music or other morale based spells, buffs could go through the roof. I'm making the aura bonuses Morale typed.

We differ on that, then. I don't think it's a very interesting ability for a character that's 3/4 of it's way to being epic.

Here's how I'd "do it":
Unshakable Resolve (Ex): After reaching 15th level, your deeds and spirit have become truly legendary. Once per day you may choose to cause you and all allies within 60 ft. to automatically succeed on a single saving throw against a single affect that targets or includes you. This ability is in addition to, not taking the place of, your zealous surge ability.

(It can still be used to auto-succeed on a save targetting only the marshal, but it also gives the option to allow his allies to save against a single fireball.)

Ah, that's a fine ability then, I like that a lot. Will make the change.

[bihlbo]

I have so much of a problem with 1/2 mod bonuses because they greatly encourage players to have PC ability scores in multiples of 4.

You mean multiples of 4 added on to 10. In my experience players already do this. Nobody wants a noneven ability score, and getting higher primary ability scores is just the nature of the game.

Yes, that is what I meant. But an ability score that's multiples of 4 above 10 is just "an even ability score modifier." That's the key, getting to 14, 18, etc, because if you halve your ability score modifier, an odd modifier isn't as benefitial. When have you ever seen a barbarian with a big axe get excited about getting his Str to 20? Str 19, 20, and 21 are just roadbumps on the way to Str 22 because he's using a two-hander. I think they shouldn't have used a "1-1/2 Str bonus to damage" rule, and I don't think it's a good idea to add more "1/2 bonus" elements to the game if you can help it.

I think I'd very much not want a Marshal's auras to stack with Bardic Music or other morale based spells, buffs could go through the roof. I'm making the aura bonuses Morale typed.

If that's what you're aiming for, that'll get it done!