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Author Topic: The Optimized Initiative Compilation  (Read 24617 times)
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PhaedrusXY
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« on: October 10, 2009, 08:15:54 PM »

A repost of a classic thread by Lord Of Procrastination. Thanks to Cru for digging it up.

Introduction

The vast majority of justifiably popular threads on the Character Optimization board have a three things in common:

1) They provide useful information to help players make optimized characters
2) They organize the opinions and advice of experts and insightful rookies into a discussion of the topic.
3) They focus with awesome fervor on one particular idea, whether it is a particular class, a new build, or a combo.

This thread is an attempt to meet all of these commonalities on a new subject, one that is often overlooked in the optimization world: Initiative.

There is no doubt that at any level, high or low, initiative is a key factor in determining the outcome of a battle. He who strikes first, strikes last, as they say. What needs to happen now is discussion and creation-- talk about new ways to make a quick-on-her-toes character or how much character resources should be spent on initiative as opposed to other key stats. This isn't just about getting a single build with the maximum possible initiative (though that would be a nice treat, too). We can ponder how to get a entire party mobilized properly and how to make the most out of going first (flat-footed targets anyone?). I'll be sticking around to update our lists, quote people and link builds, advice, etc. Let's get to it!

Table of Contents
1. Tools -- Lists of every possible way of enhancing initiative
2. Builds -- Optimized initiative in action
3. Theory -- Decide what to do now that you're first
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 08:31:19 PM by PhaedrusXY » Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2009, 08:16:04 PM »

Tools

To kick things off, I'll be adding the complete list of Dungeons and Dragons version 3.5 modifiers to Initiative. Note that as an ability check, initiative benefits from bonuses to such checks.

Key:X = Scales according to variable class, item, or feat investment
* = Modifiable by essentia investment or chakra binding

Feats
*Feat Name* *Bonus* *Source*

Dragon Aura (Senses) +X to all allies within 30 feet (scales with level, max +4 at 20th) to Initiative, Spot, and Listen; Dragon Magic
Insightful Divination +level of last divination spell cast, Complete Mage (IIRC)
Improved Initiative +4 unnamed Player's Handbook
Blooded +2 unnamed Player's Guide to Faerun
Thug +2 unnamed Player's Guide to Faerun
Battle Hardened +2 unnamed Races of Stone
Shifter Instincts +2 unnamed Races of Eberron
Quick Reconnoiter +2 unnamed Complete Adventurer
Psicrystal Affinity Nimble +2 unnamed Expanded Psionics Handbook
Fire Heritage +1 unnamed Planar Handbook
Guerrilla Scout +1 competence Heroes of Battle
Lunatic Insight +2 morale Heroes of Horror
Yondalla's Sense +Wis to init Races of the Wild
Gestalt Anchor +2 insight (also Races of Eberron
granted to Kalashtar allies)

Guardian Spirit init reroll 2/day Complete Arcane
Danger Sense init 1/day Complete Adventurer
Markings of the Hunter roll init twice, Races of Stone
take better of two
Heroic Destiny +1d6 to d20 roll 1/day Races of Destiny
Favored of the Companions +1 luck to d20 1/day Book of Exalted Deeds
Knight of the Stars +1 luck to d20 1/day Book of Exalted Deeds
Servant of the Heavens +1 luck to d20 1/day Book of Exalted Deeds
Disciple of Darkness +1 luck to d20 1/day Champions of Ruin
Scion of Sorrow +1 luck to d20 1/day Champions of Ruin
Thrall to Demon +1 luck to d20 1/day Champions of Ruin

Nimble Bones +4 for created undead Libris Mortis


Spells
*Spell Name* *Effect* *Level* *Source*

Good Hope +3 morale to ability checks Bard 3 Players Handbook
Feast of Champions +1 morale to ability checks Clr 9 Eberron
K's Skittish Nerves +5 unnamed init Wiz 1 Magic of Faerun
Elemental Familiar +2 unnamed init Wiz 3 Online (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a)
Wish Can be used to force rerolls Wiz 9 Players Handbook
Foresight Never flat-footed Drd 9/Wiz 9 Players Handbook
Anticipatory Strike Re-insert yourself in the Psion 3 Races of Destiny
        initiative order
Sign Init set as if caster had Clr 1 Miniature's Handbook
        rolled a natural 20
Sign +4 unnamed Spell Compendium
Channel the Mishtai +2 insight Wiz 2 Magic of Incarnum
Channel t. M, Greater +2 insight Wiz 6 Magic of Incarnum
Guardian Spirit +2 insight* Clr3/Wiz4 Magic of Incarnum
Guardian Spirit, Mass +2 insight* Clr7/Wiz8 Magic of Incarnum
Improvisation +1/2 CL to checks Bard 5 Complete Adventurer
Primal Instinct +5 to Initiative and Survival, Dragon Magic

Soulmelds
*Name* *Effect* *Class* *Binding Benefits*
Bluesteel Bracers +2 insight Incarnate, Soulborn Arms: Allies within 30ft gain same bonus
Lucky Dice +1 luck to ability checks Incarnate, Soulborn Hands: Allies within 30ft gain same bonus


Items

*Item/Ability* *Effect* *Source*

Rod of Alertness +1 to init Dungeon Master's Guide
Pale Green Ioun Stone +1 competence to ability checks Dungeon Master's Guide
Stone of Good Luck +1 luck to ability checks Dungeon Master's Guide
Flexible Spine +4 racial to init Lords of Madness
Luck Blade Reroll a die 1/day Dungeon Master's Guide
Burning Ability +2 if held @ start of battle Eberron
Doomwarding Ability Reroll a die, limited charges Player's Guide to Faerun
Initiative Ability +2 luck to init Oriental Adventures
Eager Ability +2 unnamed Arms and Equipment Guide
Fire Grafts (X grafted) +2 times (X-1) unnamed Magic of Eberron
Intelligent Item -- +2 to checks Dungeon Master's Guide
Special Purpose power
Boots of Speed, bound +2 insight Magic of Incarnum
to Feet Chakra

Class features

*Ability* *Effect* *Source

Anima Mage Vestige Awareness +2 unnamed
     +2 more if you bind Balam
Barbarian with the Ferocity rage variant from Cityscape web enhancement: +2 to +4, and can enter Rage as an immediate action even if flat-footed
Duelist 2,8 +2, +4 unnamed Dungeon Master's Guide
Visionary Seeker 3, 7 +2, +4 unnamed Planar Handbook
Cipher Adept 3, 6, 9 +1, +2, +3 unnamed Planar Handbook
Dervish 6 +2 unnamed Complete Warrior
Warforged Fighter 1 +3 unnamed Races of Eberron
Knight of the Iron +2, +4, +6 unnamed Frostburn
Glacier 2, 5, 8 while in frostfell
Sorcerer/Wizard 1 +4 unnamed Dragon 323
(Hummingbird Familiar)
Scout 2, 11, 20 +1, +2, +3 competence Complete Adventurer
Streetfighter 1,3,5 +1, +2, +3 competence Complete Adventurer
Fleshwarper 2, 5 or 8 +4 racial bonus Lords of Madness
Shifter Druid (Sub) 4 +2 insight bonus Races of Eberron
Duskling Barbarian 1 +2* insight Magic of Incarnum
Incarnum Blade 1 +2* insight Magic of Incarnum

Nobility Domain +2 on ability checks Complete Warrior
Tattooed Monk X +2 luck to ability checks Complete Warrior
Void Disciple 7 +20 to single check Complete Divine

Iajutsu Master 2 +Cha as unnamed to init Oriental Adventures
Bayushi Deceiver 2 +Int as unnamed to init Oriental Adventures
Exemplar 8 +Int as unnamed to init Complete Adventurer
Darkrunner 3 +Int as unnamed while Lords of Madness
underground
Marshall 1 +Cha to allies' init Miniature's Handbook
Rokugan Ninja +Int as unnamed to init Online (www.l5r.com/archive/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf)
Dread Commando X +X to allies' init Heroes of Battle
Shade Hunter X +X daily to checks Champions of Ruin
Cosmic Descryer 7 +1 to checks/5 damage Epic Level Handbook
Elf Wizard 3 Doubles familiar bonuses Races of the Wild

Wu Jen 1 Init reroll 1/day Complete Arcane
Luck Domain d20 reroll 1/day Player's Handbook
Visionary Seeker 4 +1d6 to d20 1/day Planar Handbook
Visionary Seeker 8 d20 reroll 1/day Planar Handbook
Chaotician 5 reroll anything 1/day Planar Handbook
Fatespinner 4 reroll anything 1/day Complete Arcane
Dread Pirate 5 reroll anything 1/day Complete Adventurer
Tattooed Monk X d20 reroll 1/day Complete Warrior
Entropomancer 5 d20 reroll 1/round Complete Divine
Dragon Prophet 9 reroll check/save 1/day Magic of Eberron

Divine Oracle 10 Never surprised, act Complete Divine
normally in surprise rounds

Racial Sources

*Race* *Bonus* *Source*

Shadowswyft +2 unnamed Planar Handbook
Illumian ("Uur") +1 or +2 to dex checks Races of Destiny
Killoren +2 unnamed Races of the Wild
(Aspect of the Hunter)

Chaos Gnome die reroll 1/day Races of Stone

Other
Aggressive Trait +2 initiative, -1 AC

Ways to Lower Initiative

*Status/Spell/Ability* *Effect* *Source*

*Unpleasant States*
Deafened -4 to Init Player's Handbook
Shaken -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Frightened -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Panicked -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Entangled -4 to effective Dex Player's Handbook
Negative Levels -1 per negative level Dungeon Master's Guide

*Spells*
Bestow Curse -4 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Crushing Despair -2 to ability checks Player's Handbook
Symbol of Pain -4 to ability checks Player's Handbook

*Abilities*
Hexblade's Curse -2 to ability checks Complete Warrior
(Hexblade 1)
Curse of the Fatespurned -2 to ability checks Races of the Wild
(Luckstealer 1)
Curse of the Black Cloud -2 to ability checks Races of the Wild
(Luckstealer 7)

*Traits/Flaws*
Torpid -2 to init Unearthed Arcana
Unreactive -6 to init Unearthed Arcana

High-Dex Monsters

(Over 21 Dex, Under 26 HD) *Name* *HD* *Dex* *Type* *Source*

Coure 2 24 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Vultivor 3 23 Outsider Fiend Folio
Guard Bat 4 22 Animal Monster Manual 2
Hunting Bat 4 24 Animal Monster Manual 2
Dire Hawk 5 22 Animal Monster Manual 2
Reekmurk 5 24 Ooze Fiend Folio
Avoral 7 23 Outsider Monster Manual
Mind Flayer Vampire 8 22 Undead Lords of Madness
Air Elemental, L 8 25 Elemental Monster Manual
Sunfly Swarm 9 22 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Will-o-Wisp 9 29 Aberration Monster Manual
War Bat 10 22 Animal Monster Manual 2
Nimblewright 10 24 Construct Monster Manual 2
Jarilith 10 29 Outsider Monster Manual 2
Shimmerling Swarm 11 22 Fey Monster Manual 3
Alkilith 11 25 Outsider Fiend Folio
Hellwasp Swarm 12 22 Mag Beast Monster Manual
Barbed Devil 12 23 Outsider Monster Manual
Scarab Swarm 12 23 Undead Sandstorm
Cuprilach 12 24 Outsider Monster Manual
Rimefire Eidolon 12 24 Fey Frostburn
Rukarazyll 12 27 Outsider Monster Manual 2
Legendary Eagle 12 30 Animal Monster Manual 2
Kelvezu 12 31 Outsider Monster Manual 2
Shredstorm 14 22 Construct Monster Manual 3
Throne Archon 14 24 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Legendary Wolf 14 28 Animal Monster Manual 2
Death Slaad 15 23 Outsider Monster Manual
Horned Devil 15 25 Outsider Monster Manual
Cinder Swarm 16 22 Elemental Monster Manual 3
Disenchanter 16 23 Mag Beast Fiend Folio
Legendary Snake 16 24 Animal Monster Manual 2
Fire Elemental, H 16 25 Elemental Monster Manual
Spectral Lurker 16 27 Aberration Fiend Folio
Wraith, Dread 16 28 Undead Monster Manual
Bronze Serpent 16 28 Construct Monster Manual 2
Air Elemental, H 16 29 Elemental Monster Manual
Tulani 18 22 Outsider Book of Exalted Deeds
Windghost 18 23 Aberration Monster Manual 2
Deathshrieker 18 25 Undead Monster Manual 3
Pit Fiend 18 25 Outsider Monster Manual
Odopi 20 23 Aberration Monster Manual 3
Balor 20 25 Outsider Monster Manual
Maulgoth 20 25 Aberration Fiend Folio
Prismatic Golem 20 33 Construct Monster Manual 3
Fire Elemental, Gr 21 27 Elemental Monster Manual
Air Elemental, Gr 21 31 Elemental Monster Manual (also has Improved Initiative as a bonus feat)
Ragewalker 22 25 Fey Monster Manual 3
Water Elemental El 24 22 Elemental Monster Manual
Fire Elemental, El 24 29 Elemental Monster Manual
Air Elemental, El 24 33 Elemental Monster Manual (also has Improved Initiative as a bonus feat)
Faerunian Ha-Naga 24 38 Aberration Serpent Kingdoms
Deathshrieker, Adv 25 27 Undead Monster Manual 3
Vasuthant, Horrific 25 23 Undead Monster Manual 3
Gloom 25 46 M. Humanoid Epic Level Handbook

Zeugalak 16 16 Aberration Lords of Madness
(+1d4 Dex per electric attack)

Please post to let me know if we've missed any!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 11:00:20 AM by PhaedrusXY » Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2009, 08:16:12 PM »

Builds

That's right, submit your initiative-optimized builds and they'll show up here.

Max Initiative Record-Holder
Interested2's Int/Init Monkey with a permanent Initiative of 94

32 PB: 18 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Dex, 14 Cha, 10 Str, 8 Con
28 PB: 18 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Dex, 14 Cha, 8 Str, 8 Con


Race: Human Scorpion Clan
Flaw: Inattentive, Meager Fortitude
Trait: Aggressive (+2 init)

Level Class Feat(s)
1 Marshal 1 Blooded, Skill Knowledge:Use Magic Device, Quick Reconnoiter, Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
2 Human Paragon 1
3 Human Paragon 2 Improved Initiative, Quick Draw
4 Human Paragon 3
5 Rokugun Ninja 1
6 Rokugun Ninja 2 Item Familiar
7 Rokugun Ninja 3
8 Rokugun Ninja 4
9 Iaijitsu Master 1 Weapon Focus(katana)
10 Iaijitsu Master 2
11 Exemplar 1
12 Exemplar 2 Way of the Scorpion
13 Exemplar 3
14 Exemplar 4
15 Exemplar 5 Speed of the Kami
16 Exemplar 6
17 Exemplar 7
18 Exemplar 8 Leadership
19 Bayushi Deceiver 1
20 Bayushi Deceiver 2

EQUIPMENT
+1 Eager Dagger (+2 init) 18000
Headband of Int +6 36000
Cloak of Charisma +6 36000
Gloves of Dexterity +6 36000
Sign, Constant (always roll a 20) 2000
Tome of Clear Thought +5 137500
Manual of Quickness of Action +4 110000
Tome of Leadership and Influence +4 110000
Belt of Giant Strength +6 36000
Kapaur's Skittish Nerves (+5), constant 2000
Flexible Spine graft, 91000
Stone of Good Luck, 20000
Pale Green Ioun Stone, 30000

Total: 664500
Left: 95500


Other things to do: With that 95,500 gp remaining, spend 1,200 of it to pay a wizard to Polymorph Any Object you into a Black Ethergaunt. The racial ability bonuses should give you a total of another +48 to init, for a total of always 167. Use Leadership to get a Bard as a cohort that can use Improvision and Good Hope for another +13, and have one of your 3rd level Wizard followers cast Channel the Mishtai for another +2. 182 init, always... Plus he's actually playable at all 20 levels, *and* can pull the abusive UMD tricks.

Caster Builds

Wu Jen 5/ Wild Mage 10/ Fleshwarper 2/ Fatespinner 4 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6563866&postcount=33) (LoP)
Wizard 4/Fighter 1/Visionary Seeker 3/Dragonslayer 1/ Spellsword 1/Fleshwarper 2/Eldritch Knight 8 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6563866&postcount=33) (LoP)

Combat Builds

Rokugan Ninja 1/Monk 2/Swashbuckler 3/Bayushi Deceiver 9/InvisibleBlade 5
Old Human
RokuganNinja1/monk2/swashbuckler3/Bayushi Deceiver9/InvisibleBlade5

Feats: Ninja Dodge, Way of the Scorpion (Int to Initiative), Kung Fu Genius(h), Stunning Attack(m1), Blind Fight(m2), Improved Initiative(3), Evasion, Weapon Finesse(Sw1), Int to Damage (Sw3), Combat Expertise(6), Poison Use (BayD1), Int to Initiative again (BayD2), Wpn Focus: Punching Dagger(9), Scorpion Feint (BayD4) (+2 Feint and follow-up attack), Improved Disarm (BayD6), Strike at the Tail(12) (free attack after disarm), The Pincers Hold (15) (feint&hit=autothreat), Subtle Manipulator (18) (+3 Bluff and Hide, -2 Dipl, 18), Opportunist (BayD9)

Benefits: Int to Initiative twice, Int to AC twice*, Int to damage, 6d6 Sneak Attack (9d6 with daggers), Feint as a free action, Autothreaten if hits after a feint, Outrageous amount of skill points, Evasion.

Initiative +38
AC 55 (56 hasted, 57 Dodge) (10+6AC+3Defl+3Nat+7Dex+26Int+1monk), Touch 46, Flat-footed 47?
Attacks: +30/30/25/20/15 hasted chain, fist, or dagger (1d6+15, Avg 18.5) (+6d6 Sneak Attack or +9d6 w/dagger, Avg ~40 or 50, Avg Crit ~60 or 70) (includes a +1 enhancement bonus to attack&dmg)

Abilities: Str 12, Dex 24, Con 22, Int 36, Wis 14, Cha 20
(85 points, distributed 1:1 starting at 0, then add items, aging, tomes, and level boosts)
Saves: Fort +24, Refl +30, Will +15 (Hasted)

Items: +5 Int Tome, +6 Int Item, +1 Str Tome, +2 Str Item, +6 Dex Item, +4 Dex Tome, +6 Con Item, +4 Con Tome, +4 Cha Item, +3 Nat Armor (18k), +3 Ring Prot (18k), Bracers of Armor +6 (36k), Boots of Speed (12k), Ring of Blinking (27k), +1 Punching Dagger, Cloak of Resistance +5 (25k), Monk's Belt (13k), 3 Potions of Flying, 3 Potions Cure Critical (Maximized, CL7, heal 31 points), several eggshell smoke grenades

Books used: Oriental Adventures, Rokugan Campaign Book, PHB, DMG, CW.

*I think Invisible Blade limits the AC bonus from Int to your max class levels. If so, his AC would be a bit lower.

Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed (Goliath) 3/ Duelist8/ Street Fighter 5 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6563866&postcount=33) (LordofProcrastination)

Skill-Monkey Builds

Marshal 1/Rokugan Ninja 9/Exemplar 8/Bayushi Deceiver 2 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6548307&postcount=13) (Interested2)
Scout 2/ Ranger 2/ Darkrunner 3/ Dread Commando 4/ Exemplar 8 (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6567579&postcount=34) (LoP)

Support Builds

Illumian Psion (Nomad) 19/ Marshal 1
DisposableHero_
06-27-05, 05:46 PM
Another Tool: Psicrystal Affinity (Nimble Personality) +2 unnamed bonus

A support build:

Temporal Distortion
Illumian Pison (Nomad) 19/Marshall 1

Feats:
Improved Initiative (1), Psicrystal Affinity (Psion1), Psycrystal Containment (3), Psionic Meditation (Psion5), Quicken Power (6), Twin Power (9), Extraordinary Concentration (12), 2 Psionic Feats, 2 Normal Feats

Class Features/Special Abilities:
Motivate Dexterity, Nimble Psicrystal Personality, Uur Sigil, (if your DM allows the krau sigil to transfer to psionics you can take this and use your dexterity to determine bonus power points, raise your manifester level to your character level throughout the progression, and let you further focus the character)

Psionic Powers:
Synchronicity, Anticipatory Strike, Telekinetic Maneuver, Dimension Swap, Energy Wall, Solicit Psicrystal, Time Hop, Dimension Slide

Initiative:
Dexterity Modifier + Charisma Modifier (Motivate Charisma) +2 (Uur Sigil) +4 (Improved Initiative) +2 (Nimble Psicrystal)
Total – 8 + dex + cha

The tricks:
This character uses a high initiative modifier and anticipatory strike to take his turn before his opponents, at which point he uses Quicken or normal augmented synchronicities to set up contingent readied actions to disrupt any game plan of his opposition. Effectively the character is based around taking readied actions at any point in time and using them to destroy any tactics of his opponent. The mechanics of this mayhem are:
Dimension Swap - instantaneously placing any party member in the right spot at the right time, for full attacks without closing first, superior flanking prospects, massive usage of feats that generate attacks of opportunity like karmic strike and hold the line, massive use of teleport trigger abilities like sun school or shadow pounce
Telekinetic Maneuver - disrupt spellcasting with grapples, disarm or trip an opponent at a critical juncture, this is supplemented with extraordinary concentration and solicit psicrystal to let these effects linger while still providing control of the battle field
Energy Wall - to carve up the battlefield and punish opponents that try to disrupt your tactics with mobility, responding to an attempt to cast a spell with two readied synchronous powers, the first and energy wall and the second a telekinetic grapple will put an opposing wizard in a world of hurt, or a ring energy wall that forces a charging opponent to pass through it twice before they reach your ally
Time Hop - as if removing people from the time stream needs an explanation Big Grin
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 08:25:35 PM by PhaedrusXY » Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2009, 08:16:19 PM »

Theory

Insert your handy quips, well-thought-out-theses, or all-around advice for would-be speedsters here.

The Basics
Absolute Fundamentals and Surprise-round Tactics (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6557487&postcount=30) (LordofProcrastination)

Quotes

Mini-Essays and/or Advice
The usefulness of Initiative: how and who (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6553526&postcount=25) (LordKiwi)

Getting the Most out of your Initiative Order
Readied Actions and Initiative (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6554973&postcount=27) (DisposableHero_)
Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 08:18:32 PM »

I'm not sure how useful the Theory and Builds sections will be, since they're mostly linking to other (even older) threads. If I get ambitious, I might try digging those up. Of course, we can rewrite these parts with new material, too. The real meat is in the second post, anyway. I'll clean this up later, and maybe reorganize it, and add newer material.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
Bozwevial
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2009, 08:21:11 PM »

One thing I can remember: Lucky Start, from Complete Scoundrel. Expend a luck reroll to reroll an initiative check.
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 05:56:30 AM »

I notice you've missed Factotums from the classes and skillmonkey builds.  Their level 3 ability lets them add Int to all Dex based checks, and Initiative is explicitly a Dex based check, and that's one of the biggest boosts you can get on an Int based class.  They can also cast Nerveskitter by level 3 for another big boost to initiative.

JaronK
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 07:09:26 AM »

Now they just need a wand of Sign.
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 08:39:05 AM »

I'd at least link to this thread, too: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=813.0
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2009, 09:51:27 AM »

Don't forget the Swiftblade, with casting stat to init.
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2009, 08:41:24 PM »

Grey elf factotum3/generalist elf wizard5/swiftblade10/abjurant champion2

2x int modifier to initative
+8 to initative with hummingbird familiar
+5 initative with nervesketter
16 BAB and 13 CL
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 10:52:08 PM »

Backstabbing Traitor feat (Dragon 315).

+2 to init, bluff, intimidate
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 11:13:37 PM »

Just so y'know, all the links in Post #3 are dead, at least as far as I can tell.
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 12:20:51 AM »

Just so y'know, all the links in Post #3 are dead, at least as far as I can tell.
Yeah, I actually copied and pasted the builds that the links worked for into the thread to preserve them. I left the links in just in case someone (maybe me... when I'm not busy as hell...) wants to hunt them down from a google cache, or something.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2009, 12:24:02 AM »

Nerveskitter and Belt of Battle seem to be missing from the list - both good ways to boost init.
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 12:26:50 AM »

Nerveskitter and Belt of Battle seem to be missing from the list - both good ways to boost init.
K's Skittish Nerves = old name for Nerveskitter. I'll add the BoB... when I have time. Lots of stuff is missing. This is an old list.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
Cavalry_Medic
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2009, 09:33:48 AM »

Can action points be added to Initiative rolls?  Not that I play with them, unless someone were to take the feat, but...

I'd never thought of it before reading this, but couldn't Initiative be considered an opposed roll?
If so, Competition domain.
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2009, 09:44:16 AM »

Can action points be added to Initiative rolls?  Not that I play with them, unless someone were to take the feat, but...

I'd never thought of it before reading this, but couldn't Initiative be considered an opposed roll?
If so, Competition domain.
It is definitely a dexterity check. Whether it is opposed or not is debatable. I think it should be, but not everyone agrees with this (Aftercrescent, I'm looking at you. ).

IF your DM rules that it is opposed, you can also add Moment of Prescience to it, for up to a +25 insight bonus, which is enormous of course.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
cru
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 10:03:39 AM »

Can action points be added to Initiative rolls?
Yes
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm): An initiative check is a Dexterity check.
ECS, p. 45: You can spend an action point to improve the result of an attack roll, a skill check, an ability check, a level check, or a saving throw.
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Arcane-surge
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 01:00:52 PM »

Warning weapon (MIC) for +5 Insight to initiative
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