The Healer/Sorcerer Gestalt - Check it out, and let me know

[kevin_video]

I asked in another thread about gestalts, and I'm hoping I did it accurately. I need someone to verify it, and make sure I didn't screw up anywhere. As well, if I should exchange the Battle Sorcerer for the regular Sorcerer for the additional BAB.

Note that Spontaneous Casting for the Healer is too much of a headache to try and work out without taking the Favored Soul’s progression, and adding a “1” at levels that the Healer gains new spells, but the Favored Soul does not.

Also note that I was debating on taking the Battle Sorcerer for purposes of getting around ASF, but there’s enough feats that can be taking from 3.5, and especially Pathfinder, to negate that. But that might still be a good idea nonetheless to gain the extra BAB.

For those wondering where I got the "Magic Affinity", it's based on the Dead Level variants that WotC did up on their site. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a

Healer/Sorcerer Gestalt

HD: d8

Saves: Good Fort, Poor Ref, Good Will

LV   BAB   Class Features
1.   +0   Healing hands, Metamagic Specialist
2.   +1   Skill Focus (Heal), Magic Affinity
3.   +1   Cleanse paralysis, Magic Affinity
4.   +2   Cleanse disease, Magic Affinity
5.   +2   Cleanse fear, Magic Affinity
6.   +3   Cleanse poison, Magic Affinity
7.   +3   Effortless Healing, Magic Affinity
8.   +4   Unicorn Companion, Magic Affinity
9.   +4   Cleanse blindness, Magic Affinity
10.   +5   Cleanse spirit, Magic Affinity
11.   +5   Magic Affinity
12.   +6/+1   Magic Affinity
13.   +6/+1   Cleanse petrifaction, Magic Affinity
14.   +7/+2   Magic Affinity
15.   +7/+2   New limb, Magic Affinity
16.   +8/+3   Magic Affinity
17.   +8/+3   Magic Affinity
18.   +9/+4   Magic Affinity
19.   +9/+4   Magic Affinity
20.   +10/+5   New life, Magic Affinity


Healer Spells 0-9   Sorcerer Spells 0-9   Known Spells (Sorcerer)
4 3 - - - - - - - -   5 3 - - - - - - - -   4 2 - - - - - - - -
4 4 - - - - - - - -   6 4 - - - - - - - -   5 2 - - - - - - - -
5 4 3 - - - - - - -   6 5 - - - - - - - -   5 3 - - - - - - - -
5 4 4 - - - - - - -   6 6 3 - - - - - - -   6 3 1 - - - - - - -
6 5 4 3 - - - - - -   6 6 4 - - - - - - -   6 4 2 - - - - - - -
6 5 4 4 - - - - - -   6 6 5 3 - - - - - -   7 4 2 1 - - - - - -
6 5 5 4 3 - - - - -   6 6 6 4 - - - - - -   7 5 3 2 - - - - - -
6 5 5 4 4 - - - - -   6 6 6 5 3 - - - - -   8 5 3 2 1 - - - - -
6 6 5 5 4 3 - - - -   6 6 6 6 4 - - - - -   8 5 4 3 2 - - - - -
6 6 5 5 4 4 - - - -   6 6 6 6 5 3 - - - -   9 5 4 3 2 1 - - - -
6 6 6 5 5 4 3 - - -   6 6 6 6 6 4 - - - -   9 5 5 4 3 2 - - - -
6 6 6 5 5 4 4 - - -   6 6 6 6 6 5 3 - - -   9 5 5 4 3 2 1 - - -
6 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 - -   6 6 6 6 6 6 4 - - -   9 5 5 4 4 3 2 - - -
6 6 6 6 5 5 4 4 - -   6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 - -   9 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 - -
6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 3 -   6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 - -   9 5 5 4 4 3 2 2 - -
6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 4 -   6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 -   9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 1 -
6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 3   6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 -   9 5 5 4 4 4 3 2 2 -
6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4 4   6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3   9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 1
6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 4   6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4   9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 2
6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 4   6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6   9 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 3 3

Class Skills (4+Int per level, x4 at first level): Healer’s list + Sorcerer’s list.

Proficiencies: All simple weapons and light armour, except metal armour. Is still affected by ASF when casting arcane spells.

Metamagic Specialist as per PHBII (replaces Familiar).

[Viletta Vadim]

Looks right to me.

The Healer is weak enough that you could reasonably make them spontaneous without having to change their spell progression at all, or restrict their spells known; just have them cast from their full list, a la Warmage/Dread Necromancer/Beguiler, and let 'em keep the fast progression.

Also, it probably isn't worth bothering with armor at all, and especially not worth taking feats over it.  You could just get yourself a mithral twilight chain shirt if you really want something, though against any enemy that's actually a threat, AC means nothing.

[kevin_video]

Looks right to me.

The Healer is weak enough that you could reasonably make them spontaneous without having to change their spell progression at all, or restrict their spells known; just have them cast from their full list, a la Warmage/Dread Necromancer/Beguiler, and let 'em keep the fast progression.

Also, it probably isn't worth bothering with armor at all, and especially not worth taking feats over it.  You could just get yourself a mithral twilight chain shirt if you really want something, though against any enemy that's actually a threat, AC means nothing.

Big no on the beguiler, and I haven't seen the spell progression for the dread necro, but warmage might actually work since they gain known spells at the same time as the healer does. That's the only reason I was staying away from the spontaneous. Kind of hard to cast your three 2nd lvl spells when your spells known is ZERO per day. Seriously, WTF? I guess none of the other divine casters had spells that early.

I'd just like to say that you set off every possible red flag and alarm just by mentioning mithril. I noted in the weapons and armour that any metal armour is a no-no. You wear that as a healer, and you lose everything and become an ex-Healer. Kind of a bad thing. Leather only. And 5% is nothing, really. It's just more or less for the early levels.

[Negative Zero]

She meant to use the same progression, but make it spontaneous and let them cast from their entire list, with no 'spells known' out of that list, like those three spontaneous casters in question.

Edit: My apologies. Fixed.

[Viletta Vadim]

*Is a she.*

Big no on the beguiler, and I haven't seen the spell progression for the dread necro, but warmage might actually work since they gain known spells at the same time as the healer does. That's the only reason I was staying away from the spontaneous. Kind of hard to cast your three 2nd lvl spells when your spells known is ZERO per day. Seriously, WTF? I guess none of the other divine casters had spells that early.

No, no, no.  I'm saying don't change the spell progression.  At all.  Period.  Leave spell progression precisely as it is.  Leave knowing all spells automatically precisely as it is.  All you need to do is say, "Healers cast from their spell list spontaneously."  That's it.  You do not need to shackle them with spells known, delay their spell progression, or anything like that.  They still get their entire list.  They still get second-level spells at level 3.  They just cast spontaneously.

I'd just like to say that you set off every possible red flag and alarm just by mentioning mithril. I noted in the weapons and armour that any metal armour is a no-no. You wear that as a healer, and you lose everything and become an ex-Healer. Kind of a bad thing. Leather only. And 5% is nothing, really. It's just more or less for the early levels.

Mielikki lets you wear metal.  She's cool like that.

[kevin_video]

No, no, no.  I'm saying don't change the spell progression.  At all.  Period.  Leave spell progression precisely as it is.  Leave knowing all spells automatically precisely as it is.  All you need to do is say, "Healers cast from their spell list spontaneously."  That's it.  You do not need to shackle them with spells known, delay their spell progression, or anything like that.  They still get their entire list.  They still get second-level spells at level 3.  They just cast spontaneously.

Mielikki lets you wear metal.  She's cool like that.

Well that's different, and not like what's on the SRD. I guess I could go with that. It's not a bad direction to go in, at any rate. Since this'll be this player's first time playing the D&D, I want to try not confuse her too much, and make it fun for her.

Can't say I've heard of that deity.

[Negative Zero]

Can't say I've heard of that deity.

She's from the Forgotten Realms. (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 246). NG deity of nature. (Naturally, there's more detail there, and on Wikipedia)

*Is a she.*

Ack, sorry. My fault.

[kevin_video]

Just read her, but can't find anything about her allowing her followers to wear metal. But metal armour would be a bad idea anyways for an arcane user. Studded leather is good enough. There are tons of magic items that she could wear that's leather too so it's all good.

I'm still debating on the battle sorcerer though, mostly because of the 3/4 BAB.

[Viletta Vadim]

Clicky text.  Under worshipers.  And note that I'm not simply talking about metal armor, I'm specifically talking about a mithral twilight chain shirt, which is a different beast entirely, having no arcane spell failure whatsoever.  But armor's not very important, and you'll likely not suffer for forgoing it altogether.

And I don't recommend Battle Sorcerer.  BAB is overrated.  If you're a caster, you're not going to be making a whole lot of attack rolls, and whatever attack rolls you do make are liable to be touch attacks, which are cake to make most of the time, even with low BAB.  Meanwhile, you'd be giving up stuff you actually need, desperately.

[snakeman830]

Blue Ice (Frostburn) is a possibility.  You can't go up to Breastplate because it doesn't drop ACF as much as mithirl.

However, it does drop the category of armor by 1 and it isn't metal.  If you don't have some cold resistance or the Cold Endurance feat, you take a -1 penalty on attack rolls (whoop de do, especially since any attacks you make are going to be touch attacks.)  Protection is so easy to get, though.

[kevin_video]

That's a might handy link Viletta. Especially since the actual book doesn't say much about amour you can and can't wear. And since she's a unicorn riding goddess, that just makes it all more legit for her to take her as a deity. The mithril twilight chain shirt won't be happening for a while though. I'll just have her take a feat to lower the arcane failure, and let her retrain it later. I have thought about the BAB not being all that big a deal, but since this is her first character, she might always remember to use spells, and want to get into the battle. Or not. Who knows. I'll keep things as they are though.

The character definitely doesn't have cold resistance, so blue ice won't be that good of an idea at the moment.

Man, I want to get this campaign started already. I'm itching to be the DM again, and with players who are fresh.

[Negative Zero]

Especially since the actual book doesn't say much about amour you can and can't wear.

I managed to find that same text (Mielikki's druids can wear any armor that rangers can wear without violating their vows) in Faiths and Pantheons, page 48.

[kevin_video]

Especially since the actual book doesn't say much about amour you can and can't wear.

I managed to find that same text (Mielikki's druids can wear any armor that rangers can wear without violating their vows) in Faiths and Pantheons, page 48.

So therefore it's assumed that this also means metal armour. Nothing like making us read between the lines. 

[Negative Zero]

Especially since the actual book doesn't say much about amour you can and can't wear.

I managed to find that same text (Mielikki's druids can wear any armor that rangers can wear without violating their vows) in Faiths and Pantheons, page 48.

So therefore it's assumed that this also means metal armour. Nothing like making us read between the lines. 

Here's the exact quote:

Her druids may use armor and weapons allowed to rangers and not be in violation of their sacred oaths.

I don't actually see any armor being prohibited from Rangers, so... everything, I guess? It might mean you can't use medium or heavy armor (as medium or heavy armor interferes with the Weapon Style, but my reading is that they can wear any armor or use any weapons they like without violating their oaths.

[PhaedrusXY]

Man, I want to get this campaign started already. I'm itching to be the DM again, and with players who are fresh.

Congratulations. Let us know how it goes. I'm not being sarcastic at all.

[kevin_video]

Man, I want to get this campaign started already. I'm itching to be the DM again, and with players who are fresh.

Congratulations. Let us know how it goes. I'm not being sarcastic at all.

lol Don't worry, I know you're not.

I'm redoing the Noble from the Dragonlance book with the unofficial revision, and gestalting that with the Paladin of Freedom, as well as adding the dead level progressions from WotC. The Noble/Paladin of Freedom//Healer/Sorcerer is going to be one of the characters. I don't know about the Fighter/Rogue yet though. He's been talking about possibly going Bard at some point, but I don't know what'd be a good gestalt add-on for that one.