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Author Topic: Dragonwrought Kobold Pious Templar: The Fast Cast Paladin/Blackguard  (Read 1414 times)
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Endarire
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« on: August 19, 2009, 06:15:17 PM »

Due to trickery allowing true dragons to bypass all prereqs for Dragonblood classes (Races of the Dragon 4 in the bottom section under Dragonblood Subtype, last paragraph), a Dragonwrought Kobold Cleric1 can take the Cleric9 substitution level at character level 1.  He'll need 4 ranks of Knowledge (religion) and at 1 flaw and the War domain- but preferably 2 flaws- to obtain Weapon Focus in his deity's favored weapon and the feat True Believer (Complete Divine 81).

At level 2, he has 6 BAB (!) and otherwise qualifies for Pious Templar (Complete Divine 50).  He needs 18 WIS by Pious Templar7 (character level 8) to be able to cast 1 level 4 spell per day.

If he wishes to cast from the Paladin list, he must be good.  If he wants to cast from the Blackguard list, he must be evil.  If he wants to cast from either, he must be neutral (LN, CN, TN).  Neutrality is optimal.

This gets him Paladin and Blackguard spells with saves that are reasonable for the level he obtains these spells.  They suck soon after, but you can continue progressing Cleric for that very reason!  Maybe take a Crusader level and advance in Ruby Knight Vindicator.  It's your choice!

AUTHOR'S NOTE: I don't normally condone optimizing in this fashion, but it's fun to ponder.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 12:17:51 AM by Endarire » Logged

Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"
altpersona
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2009, 06:22:35 PM »

i think yer doin it wrong.
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Endarire
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2009, 08:27:25 PM »

There was a post on BG about this subject.  By a strict RAW reading, this works.

ALTPERSONA: Mechanically, by the RAW, where am I going wrong?
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Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"
Emy
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2009, 09:06:57 PM »

ALTPERSONA: Mechanically, by the RAW, where am I going wrong?

There is always the "dragonwrought kobolds aren't true dragons" angle.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2009, 09:33:34 PM »

It doesn't actually specify "true dragons".  It just specifies "dragons".  Dragonwrought kobolds explicitly have the dragon type, so it's all aboveboard.

People arguing about "well, maybe they just qualify as dragonblooded" may be directed to the section talking about true dragons qualifying for Singer of Concordance, despite the fact they cast arcane spells rather than divine.



The silly TO part is attempting to get a higher level progression's BAB and saves out of it, which I freely admit is on pretty shaky ground.  Basically, there are three possible interpretations of how save/BAB progressions work (as there's no canonical explanation of how it works, it's left as an exercise for the GM - under normal circumstances, you take every level in order, so it never comes up)
-ProgressionFormulaOfClass(Number of levels in the class) = Saves/BAB
-MostRecentLevel = Saves/BAB
-All levels grant bonuses, but since they're from the same source they don't stack and only the highest bonus counts.

Now, any sane GM will smack you upside the head if you try to get BAB/Saves, which is why I moved the thread into theoretical optimization (I only realized the BAB/saves thing partway through the post).  On the other hand, just doing the trades early seems legit, though it does stink of gouda, and you will end up paying the price of the tradein eventually.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 09:36:16 PM by The_Mad_Linguist » Logged

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Emy
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2009, 09:40:59 PM »

It doesn't actually specify "true dragons".  It just specifies "dragons".

Ah, so it's similar to dragons + epic feats.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2009, 09:41:47 PM »

It doesn't actually specify "true dragons".  It just specifies "dragons".

Ah, so it's similar to dragons + epic feats.
Well, it doesn't have the "age category" clause, but yeah, similar.
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My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.
altpersona
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2009, 10:00:49 PM »

ya, i got no beef w/ the dragon cheese...

i think its just that most kobalds either die to soon to try or dont figure out how to max their options, that keeps many from discovering their potential...

assuming that taking a cleric lvl 8 sub lvl gives you = lvl 8 cleric bab isnt even TO, its just dreaming..

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The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.

The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 01:01:49 AM »

ya, i got no beef w/ the dragon cheese...

i think its just that most kobalds either die to soon to try or dont figure out how to max their options, that keeps many from discovering their potential...

assuming that taking a cleric lvl 8 sub lvl gives you = lvl 8 cleric bab isnt even TO, its just dreaming..
The only way it's even close to plausible is that the BAB is printed on the table for the racial level, so if you take the level you obviously get everything listed next to its entry on the table. Rolls Eyes

It's RAW in the same way getting a scroll of empowered maximized sculpted widened invisible fireball technically costs the same as a scroll of fireball, since the scroll's price is based on the spell's level, not the spell's slot.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 01:04:37 AM by The_Mad_Linguist » Logged

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My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
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Want to improve your character?  Then die.
Salt_Crow
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 04:25:46 AM »

If the rule truly gets past the DM, then half-dragons have earned themselves a big rescue. Although I don't agree with that "ignore all prerequisites means that I can take any level of the class I want" angle, I'm willing to agree to disagree.
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