|
lans
|
 |
« Reply #440 on: December 27, 2010, 11:45:38 AM » |
|
Just outta curiosity since even this repost is still getting bumped (and your still interested in it, ie posting) why didn't you include the extra base class categorizations I did? It would be nice to have all base classes listed after all... Is there a link to this? ardent (3) Battledancer (5) deathmaster (2) divine mind (5) dragon shaman (5) dragonfire adept (4 with but slightly lower than warlocks) eidolon (5) eidoloncer (variable like a PrC, but technically a ghost only non ECL1 base class. Without casting to advance 6) jester (high 4) incarnate (3) lurk (Definately tier 5. I wish they could actually do something) montebank (4) mystic (Tier 2, one of my favorites despite the fact that it is a favored soul minus the umph) noble (Tier 5=weak sauce bard without the spells) savant (low 4) Sha'ir (2, but ... strange) shadowcaster (4) shugenja (3) sohei (4) soulborn (5) spirit shaman (tier 2 because it tries to do too much and doesn't quite succeed) totemist (4?) Wilder (low 2, wishes it could be a psion) I would put totemist, spirit shaman and dragon shaman up 1 and sohei down 1, but other than that it looks kind of good. Like Jaron said most every seperate variant is in the same tier, including: I think some of those could be noted as being higher or lower in the tier that they already were in, like domain wizard which is something for nothing IIRC. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar
|
|
|
|
The_Mad_Linguist
|
|
« Reply #441 on: December 27, 2010, 02:59:15 PM » |
|
Eh, the difference really isn't significant for domain wizard. Yeah, something for nothing, but compared to the raw power you already have, it doesn't matter too much.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Kuroimaken
|
|
« Reply #442 on: December 27, 2010, 05:34:32 PM » |
|
Eh, the difference really isn't significant for domain wizard. Yeah, something for nothing, but compared to the raw power you already have, it doesn't matter too much.
It's like you already had extra frosting on your cake then added MORE frosting. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Lycanthromancer
|
|
« Reply #443 on: December 27, 2010, 05:35:57 PM » |
|
Eh, the difference really isn't significant for domain wizard. Yeah, something for nothing, but compared to the raw power you already have, it doesn't matter too much.
It's like you already had extra frosting on your cake then added MORE frosting. Dude. It was a layer-cake made of frosting. With extra frosting and a side of frosting. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Shadowhunter
|
|
« Reply #444 on: December 27, 2010, 06:44:37 PM » |
|
Yo dawg, I heard U like frosting...
A question though.
Which Domain is the best one?
Or which are the better ones?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  (A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours) I often have to remind people not to underrate divination. The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote] Binder? You're WelcomeZceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2. Cagemarrow is a GeniusBefore giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice. |
|
|
|
snakeman830
|
|
« Reply #445 on: December 27, 2010, 07:50:11 PM » |
|
Luck is a pretty good domain. Its power is excellent and spells are all pretty good (although the 9th is useless for Clerics).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle. The book doesn't even exist! Quotes: By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life. hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea. If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit. See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere. |
|
|
|
Shadowhunter
|
|
« Reply #446 on: December 27, 2010, 07:57:48 PM » |
|
I'm talking about Domain Wizards domains here. I'm leaning towards Transmutation. Solid spells all levels (Iron Body is so-so), even a good cantrip. If it weren't for Mind Blank, Enchantment Domain looks really good as well. Conjuration have good ones too, but I think Transmutation is a tad better. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with. (A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours) I often have to remind people not to underrate divination. The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote] Binder? You're WelcomeZceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2. Cagemarrow is a GeniusBefore giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice. |
|
|
Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
|
|
« Reply #447 on: December 27, 2010, 08:52:00 PM » |
|
Question: what tier is this? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
|
|
|
|
ninjarabbit
|
|
« Reply #448 on: December 27, 2010, 09:00:13 PM » |
|
Question: what tier is this? high tier 4/low tier 3 leaning more towards tier 4 Honestly most of the abilities are crap. The thing that makes it good having all skills as class skills with 8 skill points/level but I'd still rather be a factotum since the factotum has some sort of spellcasting and useful class abilities. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
The_Mad_Linguist
|
|
« Reply #449 on: December 27, 2010, 09:01:07 PM » |
|
One feat gets you wizard+ casting. I'd say tier 1 from that, for the same reason that druids are assumed to take natural spell.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Brainpiercing
|
|
« Reply #450 on: December 28, 2010, 05:37:46 AM » |
|
Without SotAO: Tier 3, and IMHO pretty solidly. The bonus feats alone turn it into something at least as good as a Barb, and it has a ton of skill points and other stuff, and it's plenty abusable.
It would be interesting to see how this would fare in a Tier 3+ party.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Nytemare3701
|
|
« Reply #451 on: December 28, 2010, 05:43:59 AM » |
|
If I can get permission from a DM, I'd play it. Anyone have a PbP they want one of these in?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
ALT+7 to make a • Clean up your posts and people tend to react better to them. My rewrites: Mechanics There's RAI, and then there's RAW, and then there's "Hey, if I deliberately misread this look how powerful it is!" – Caelic |
|
|
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
Posts: 1373
Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
|
|
« Reply #452 on: December 28, 2010, 07:44:35 PM » |
|
Ty. Can I get second opinions on spirit shaman (a favorite of mine), dragon shaman and sohei? I'll adjust accordingly
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed. And healed. Don't forget that. Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle. Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms. More Funny than HumbleYour a shifter... you have all you ever need. It blows MoMF out of the water But if your greedy for more [ Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL. Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want. PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r |
|
|
Iskajir
Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
Posts: 114
|
|
« Reply #453 on: December 28, 2010, 11:39:54 PM » |
|
Ty. Can I get second opinions on spirit shaman (a favorite of mine), dragon shaman and sohei? I'll adjust accordingly Spirit Shaman is on the high end of 2. Dragon Shaman probably solidly a 4. Sohei more like bottom end of Tier 4, or in 5. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
lans
|
|
« Reply #454 on: December 29, 2010, 03:39:01 AM » |
|
I like to think of Spirit Shaman as low tier 1  Sohei is really is tier 5. Compare it to a paladin and it isn't coming out a head in much. Its likely coming up short in more. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar
|
|
|
|
X-Codes
|
|
« Reply #455 on: December 29, 2010, 05:06:03 AM » |
|
Spirit Shaman is solidly Tier 2. The druid spell list alone isn't really enough to make it Tier 1, and even then the Spirit Shaman has much more limited access to it than the Druid does at any given time. The Druid is Tier 1 not just because of it's spellcasting ability, but moreso because of it's ability to cast those spells while safely behind it's animal companion and wild-shaped.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
lans
|
|
« Reply #456 on: December 29, 2010, 10:10:03 AM » |
|
Actually the druid is T1 because of its spell casting.
The shifter variant remains T1, so the S.Shaman should also be T1.
The power difference between those two is pretty insignificant.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Skill prodigy from Kingdoms of Kalamar
|
|
|
|
Brainpiercing
|
|
« Reply #457 on: December 29, 2010, 10:27:49 AM » |
|
Actually the druid is T1 because of its spell casting.
The shifter variant remains T1, so the S.Shaman should also be T1.
The power difference between those two is pretty insignificant.
I disagree. Druid spellcasting is the least powerful of all the major casters - it has less scrying, less mobility, and less outright cheating (Miracle, etc.). The Druid was always Tier 1 due to the total package, and losing key elements significantly reduces its power. I think a shapeshifter variant druid is hardly Tier 1 anymore because it lacks two all-important aspects - significant combat forms, and the AC. IMHO the shifter druid - and the Spirit Shaman - are at most Tier 2, and only due to the large, multi-splatted spell list. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Benly
|
|
« Reply #458 on: December 29, 2010, 10:50:12 AM » |
|
I was always under the impression that what made the Big Three spell lists T1 is that they got expanded with pretty much every dang sourcebook that came out, to the point where for any given situation the Big Three spell lists will each have an answer in some book somewhere. The druid is the weakest of those three lists, but it still has this quality of ridiculous overexpansion and I think it's reasonable to estimate it as a low T1 on casting alone, even without the companion and wild shape.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Lycanthromancer
|
|
« Reply #459 on: December 29, 2010, 12:36:23 PM » |
|
Wizards are massively high tier 1 even in just Core due to their spell list. Core contains most of their best-of-the-best spells.
Druids are mid-high tier 1 due to the whole package, even in Core; take out any two major class features (spellcasting, animal companion, or wild shape) and they're a high (really high) tier 3.
Clerics...well, they're definitely tier 1 with everything allowed. I don't play around with them much, but I do believe they're low tier 1 in a Core-only environment just because of how versatile and powerful their spells are (also see domains).
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
