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The_Mad_Linguist
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« on: July 23, 2009, 11:51:54 PM » |
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So here's an odd way to force classes to be more balanced.
Pyramidal multiclassing!
The basic rule is: You may not have any class with more than five levels than the next most levelled class.
Thus, a Wizard 8/Cleric3 is a perfectly legitimate character. As is a Wizard 13/Cleric8/Warblade 3.
But a Wizard 11/Cleric6 or Cleric 11/Wizard5 can't exist, because you have a six level gap below cleric.
Since noncaster class abilities stack up far better when multiclassed than casters, this tends to slow down the power growth of casters relative to noncasters.
Sure, you can have ninth level spells. But to do that, you'll need to be a wizard17/Archivist12/Warblade7/Ninja2. And at that point, you're actually going to have some trouble beating the Favored Soul 17/Monk12/Paladin7/Survivor2's saves.
Prestige classes should count as progressing whatever is reasonable for purposes of level calculations. Classes that progress spellcasting always count toward the class they progress. For example, a level in mystic theurge counts towards both wizard and cleric caps.
So, aside from the bookkeeping, what do you guys think?
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Szatany
Monkey bussiness
Posts: 10
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2009, 02:58:41 AM » |
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Does that mean that once I have 6 levels in my first (and only) class, I can never multiclass? Rather sucky option.
If multiclassing isn't somehow forced upon me in your system, I would never multiclass as a caster.
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Vinom
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 03:03:19 AM » |
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Does that mean I have to take 5 levels in my first class before my second, and I can't have a level 6 class if I don't have a level 1 one?
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2009, 11:19:06 AM » |
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Yeah, basically. You're required to multiclass.
The whole point is forcing the quadratic caster power growth down to something more linear. This could easily be justified fluff-wise with some sort of "getting stuck on your current course of learning, and needing to try something different".
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 07:43:05 PM » |
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Yeah, basically. You're required to multiclass.
The whole point is forcing the quadratic caster power growth down to something more linear. This could easily be justified fluff-wise with some sort of "getting stuck on your current course of learning, and needing to try something different".
That's.... Quite frankly, that's a horrid idea for anyone who isn't Tier 3, and even then some Tier 3's are going to hate you for it. Tier 4, maybe. But any Tier 3 spellcaster is going to kill themselves or force you to play E6. Warblades, Swordsages, and Crusaders shoot up to the best classes, Warlock and DFA become unplayable, Beguiler, Duskblade, Bard, Dread Necromancer, Warmage, and Healer all become crap classes (that's saying something, when a variant makes Warmages and Healers worse). PsiWars also want to kill you. |
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 08:05:36 PM » |
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I assume that his group must have a lot of Tier 1s and 2s playing alongside Tier 4s and 5s, with very few Tier 3 characters. That's the only way this multiclassing helps anything...
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Vinom
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 02:50:44 AM » |
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No it help the players kill themselves...
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DavidWL
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2009, 03:24:44 PM » |
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Interesting. How do prestige classes fit in this?
Best,
David
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Some Cool Quotes: Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.
-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better. The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play. I often have to remind people not to underrate divination. The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 03:05:29 PM » |
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Anyway, this was just a random thought. I was thinking, two of the biggest flaws in 3.5e are that
A) Full casters grow exponentially more powerful compared to other classes,
B) Multiclassing sucks for full casters
and I was trying to figure out if it would be possible to use one problem to solve the other. That is, from levels 1-5 a full casting class is advanced at the normal rate, from levels 6-10 it's advanced at half the normal rate, from levels 11-16 it's at a third, and so on.
I suppose PrCs would be handled something like this:
Prestige classes that advance core class features (like Iot7V) count as the class they're advancing,
Prestige classes that advance two class's features (like Mystic Theurge) count towards both classes,
Prestige classes that don't advance any features in particular (Suel arcanamach) count separately.
You could theoretically do it on a level-by-level basis - that is, a green star adept would count towards wizard on even levels and as a seperate class on odd, or something along those lines.
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JaronK
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 02:26:26 AM » |
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I think it's a heck of a nerf to the casters, to be sure. It doesn't actually hurt the ToB classes too much if they're taken later on... after all, a Warblade dip part way down is much better than starting as a Warblade, just because you get higher level manuevers that way. The only really hard part is your first class has to be the highest level class you take, as far as I can tell. Or can you start as a Fighter, then level up Warblade past your Fighter levels? Because something like Feat Rogue 2/Ranger 2/Fighter 4/Warblade 9 would be a really nasty as an archer. Or do you have to have an exactly 5 level difference?
Also, this really puts Ur Priest into a catagory unto it's own. Paladin of Tyranny 4/Hexblade 5/Ur Priest 10, anyone?
Still, despite the absolute oddness of this idea, I don't think it's necessarily bad. I mean, it kills some things (Healers and Warmages didn't need that hit) but if you're okay with losing a few of the weaker casters, it seems okay to me. It does knock the wind out of the top tier casters.
JaronK
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 02:29:05 AM by JaronK »
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bogsnes
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 08:39:17 AM » |
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I actually like this...
But I think that a character shouldn't become epic before level (21+16+11+6+1) 55 as that is the earliest possible level to become above level 20...
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