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Author Topic: Why listening to Oprah is dangerous  (Read 4354 times)
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Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2009, 07:55:31 PM »

You know what, people? Not everyone agrees. Some people consider vaccination poisonous. Their opinion may or may not be correct. There are a lot of arguments for both sides. It's their opinion, though, so just live with it.
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CountArioch
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2009, 08:32:57 PM »

You know what, people? Not everyone agrees. Some people consider vaccination poisonous. Their opinion may or may not be correct. There are a lot of arguments for both sides. It's their opinion, though, so just live with it.

When someone's opinion is actually harmful to me, you're goddamn right I'm going to speak out against it.  It might be the opinion of some crackhead on the street that he's justified in clubbing me in the head and stealing my wallet, that does NOT mean I am REQUIRED to agree with it.
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2009, 08:34:38 PM »

You know what, whenever I'm obviously wrong I like to let things drop and pretend they don't matter. But if I'm right, suddenly everything is super important.

Sometimes, I eat a whole plate of sausage and onions for no reason.
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Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2009, 09:01:22 PM »

When someone's opinion is actually harmful to me, you're goddamn right I'm going to speak out against it.  It might be the opinion of some crackhead on the street that he's justified in clubbing me in the head and stealing my wallet, that does NOT mean I am REQUIRED to agree with it.

Except that we're talking about something that's slightly more complex than the example you use.

Plus, I'm not saying that you have to agree with their opinion. I merely say that there's no need to bitch about their opinion because no matter what you do that's their opinion and you cannot change it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 09:04:10 PM by Nuntius Mortis » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2009, 09:03:38 PM »

When someone's opinion is actually harmful to me, you're goddamn right I'm going to speak out against it.  It might be the opinion of some crackhead on the street that he's justified in clubbing me in the head and stealing my wallet, that does NOT mean I am REQUIRED to agree with it.

Except that we're talking about something that's slightly more complex than the example you use.

No.  We aren't.  Every person that's not immunized is a danger to the rest of the world.  If you disagree with me, you are wrong.  End of discussion.
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Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2009, 09:06:44 PM »

Every person that's not immunized is a danger to the rest of the world.  If you disagree with me, you are wrong.  End of discussion.

Prove it. And don't bring shitty articles from scientists that have ever be affiliated with a drug company as proof because they have an interest to let you believe that you need their drugs.
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PhoenixInferno
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2009, 09:08:13 PM »

American courts have so far denied any claim against vaccine manufacturers regarding a possible link between vaccinations and autism.  Insufficient evidence of causation.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/11/autism.vaccines/index.html
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Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2009, 09:17:05 PM »

American courts have so far denied any claim against vaccine manufacturers regarding a possible link between vaccinations and autism.

You're talking about the same courts that use laws like the Patriot Act so I'm not going to take anything they say seriously, my friend.
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2009, 09:23:06 PM »

Prove it. And don't bring shitty articles from scientists that have ever be affiliated with a drug company as proof because they have an interest to let you believe that you need their drugs.
Polio outbreaks reappeared in Nigeria after the government there threw out the vaccination program a few years back iirc.

Quote
You're talking about the same courts that use laws like the Patriot Act so I'm not going to take anything they say seriously, my friend.
The court system of the United States is composed of several circuit courts. You don't know which circuit court was involved in those suits, so your claim is false.

It's also logically fallacious. Just because, say, the Chinese government is repressive and communist does not mean that their decision to build a nuclear power plant in Hunan was incorrect. These matters are unrelated.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 09:25:33 PM by Solo » Logged


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PhoenixInferno
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2009, 09:30:55 PM »

American courts have so far denied any claim against vaccine manufacturers regarding a possible link between vaccinations and autism.

You're talking about the same courts that use laws like the Patriot Act so I'm not going to take anything they say seriously, my friend.
Then you find me another case.  My intent in this thread isn't to take sides, but to provide some background information.
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Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2009, 09:36:01 PM »

Polio outbreaks reappeared in Nigeria after the government there threw out the vaccination program a few years back iirc.

Gamma globulin is presented to our own blood and can work miracles against polio. So, why poisoning ourselves with chemicals when we can halt the same disease with our own blood?

The court system of the United States is composed of several circuit courts. You don't know which circuit court was involved in those suits, so your claim is false.

It is composed of several circuit courts but all of them use the Patriot Act when they deem proper, right?

It's also logically fallacious. Just because, say, the Chinese government is repressive and communist does not mean that their decision to build a nuclear power plant in Hunan was incorrect. These matters are unrelated.

I didn't judge them about what they are. If I was to do that, the mere fact that they operate under a capitalist and repressive system and that they use laws would be enough.

I judged them about the laws they use. Also, I never said that they are incorrect per se. I just said that to my eyes at least they're completely unreliable.

My intent in this thread isn't to take sides, but to provide some background information.

And actually that's the best tactic, my friend. I wouldn't take sides either but some things annoy me to no end.

And that's that according to some people here, every person that has a different opinion than him deserves to be shot immediatedly.

As Nanshork said, most arguments here don't matter at all. No one is going to change his/her opinion because someone on an internet board told him/her to do so.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 09:42:52 PM by Nuntius Mortis » Logged

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PhoenixInferno
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« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2009, 09:47:18 PM »

Polio outbreaks reappeared in Nigeria after the government there threw out the vaccination program a few years back iirc.

Gamma globulin is presented to our own blood and can work miracles against polio. So, why poisoning ourselves with chemicals when we can halt the same disease with our own blood?
Link?
Quote
My intent in this thread isn't to take sides, but to provide some background information.

And actually that's the best tactic, my friend. I wouldn't take sides either but some things annoy me to no end.

And that's that according to some people here, every person that has a different opinion than him deserves to be shot immediatedly.
Some opinions are right, some opinions are wrong.  There's nothing wrong with who is on which side.  Some people, however like being right more than they like good discourse.
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Solo
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zhangzidong
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2009, 09:56:54 PM »

I'm going to do some research.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 10:07:37 PM by Solo » Logged


"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2009, 10:05:45 PM »

Link?

Here

I may not trust the site so much but it offers decent references.

Some opinions are right, some opinions are wrong.  There's nothing wrong with who is on which side.  Some people, however like being right more than they like good discourse.

Yes, some opinions are right and some others are wrong but only when we're talking about something that has been proven and is not currently debated. For example, it's obviously wrong to say that 1+1=6. However, it's not wrong to say that 2+X=36 or 2+X=78 or 2+X=1999999999999999 if we don't prove first that X=34 or X=76 or X=1999999999999997. Sure, it isn't right either but it still isn't wrong. It's debatable.

Moreover, some people just tend to think that their opinions are always right and those who have opposing opinions are always wrong. And that's truly disheartening Sad
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Solo
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zhangzidong
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2009, 10:07:41 PM »

Quote
Gamma globulin is presented to our own blood and can work miracles against polio. So, why poisoning ourselves with chemicals when we can halt the same disease with our own blood?

Quote from: Wikipedia

You do realize that we can't just take antibodies and inject them into 5000 Nigerians, right? Especially considering that vaccines do not work that way.

Quote
A vaccine typically contains a small amount of an agent that resembles a microorganism. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as foreign, destroy it, and "remember" it, so that the immune system can more easily recognize and destroy any of these microorganisms that it later encounters.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 10:09:39 PM by Solo » Logged


"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2009, 10:29:28 PM »

Quote
Gamma globulin is presented to our own blood and can work miracles against polio. So, why poisoning ourselves with chemicals when we can halt the same disease with our own blood?

For the statement about gamma globulin and the statement about the vaccine being poisonous.

Citation about gamma globulin can be found in my reply to PI.

As for the poisonous part, ever heard about vaccine-induced polio? If no, here are some links:

Link 1

Pdf

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4

Link 5

Link 6, straight from the archives of the World Health Association

The pdf also indicates that people with Hypogammaglobulinemia (lack of gamma globulin) run 7,000 times higher risk to be affected by vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis.

What I'm trying to say is the following: Nature is wise. It made us capable of surviving in its environment. We did our best to destroy and poison that environment. Now, we just face the consequences of our own mistakes. To continue poisoning nature isn't going to help us.
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Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2009, 10:35:37 PM »

You do realize that we can't just take antibodies and inject them into 5000 Nigerians, right?

I do. The easiest way is almost never the best one, though.

Do you realize that the outbreak was vaccine-derived?

Vaccines are not candies. They're chemicals, alien to our organism. Vaccines can and do cause diseases to mutate. VDPV (Vaccine-derived poliovirus) is an irrefutable proof of that.
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zhangzidong
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2009, 10:49:17 PM »

Do you realize that the outbreak was vaccine-derived?
I don't see how it is possible to have an outbreak of polio induced by the vaccine AFTER the Nigerian government abandons it.

On the subject of vaccine related polio
Quote
A major concern about the oral polio vaccine (OPV) is its known ability to revert to a form that can achieve neurological infection and cause paralysis.[32] Clinical disease, including paralysis, caused by vaccine-derived poliovirus (VDPV) is indistinguishable from that caused by wild polioviruses.[33] This is believed to be a rare event, but outbreaks of vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis (VAPP) have been reported, and tend to occur in areas of low coverage by OPV, presumably because the OPV is itself protective against the related outbreak strain.[34][35]
So I wouldn't get too worried about it if I were you.

Quote
Vaccines are not candies. They're chemicals, alien to our organism. Vaccines can and do cause diseases to mutate. VDPV (Vaccine-derived poliovirus) is an irrefutable proof of that.

Vaccines cause diseases to mutate. And what the effing hell do you think GAMMA GLOBULIN AND THE IMMUNE SYSTEM DO, PLAY CROQUET WITH POLIO?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 10:51:40 PM by Solo » Logged


"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
Nuntius Mortis
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« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2009, 10:56:50 PM »

Do you realize that the outbreak was vaccine-derived?
I don't see how it is possible to have an outbreak of polio induced by the vaccine AFTER the Nigerian government abandons it.

Read the reports carefully. It happened. Even the World Health Association accepts it.

Vaccines cause diseases to mutate. And what the effing hell do you think GAMMA GLOBULIN AND THE IMMUNE SYSTEM DO, PLAY CROQUET WITH POLIO?

No, they don't play croquet with polio. But there's no need to weaken our immune system with chemicals when it can take care of itself quite well.
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Solo
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zhangzidong
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2009, 10:59:43 PM »

Quote
No, they don't play croquet with polio. But there's no need to weaken our immune system with chemicals when it can take care of itself quite well.
Like FDR?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 12:15:46 AM by Solo » Logged


"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
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