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Author Topic: Deepwood Sniper 3.5  (Read 7605 times)
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RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
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« on: June 18, 2009, 07:36:05 AM »

This is something I worked on at Gleemax about two years ago and it fell into archives.  Vynar PMed me and I thought I'd bring it here.  I modified a few things (namely the Take Aim ability), and I'm open to some suggestions for improvement.  Let me know what you think.

______


Deepwood Sniper
Hit Die: d8.

REQUIREMENTS

To qualify to become a deepwood sniper, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Skills: Hide 4 ranks, Move Silently 4 ranks, Spot 4 ranks.
Feats: Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any bow or crossbow).

_______________________________________________________________________
          Fort  Ref   Will
Lvl  BAB  Save  Save  Save  Special
1    +1   +0    +2    +0    Safe poison use, range increment bonus +10 ft./level
2    +2   +0    +3    +0    Improved Critical
3    +3   +1    +3    +1    Bonus feat
4    +4   +1    +4    +1    Take aim +2
5    +5   +1    +4    +1    Weapon specialization
6    +6   +2    +5    +2    Bonus feat, Ranged precision
7    +7   +2    +5    +2    Camouflage
8    +8   +2    +6    +2    Take aim +4
9    +9   +3    +6    +3    Bonus feat
10   +10  +3    +7    +3    Greater Critical
_______________________________________________________________________

CLASS SKILLS

The deepwood sniper’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Intelligence modifier.

CLASS FEATURES

All of the following are features of the deepwood sniper prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Deepwood snipers gain no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Safe Poison Use (Ex): At 1st level, a deepwood sniper can use poison without any chance of poisoning herself.

Range Increment Bonus (Ex): With each class level the deepwood sniper gains, the range increment of her projectile weapons increase by +10 feet (added after all multipliers).

Improved Critical (Ex): At 2nd level, the deepwood sniper gains the Improved Critical feat. This feat must be applied to the bow or crossbow for which she has taken the Weapon Focus Feat. She gains this feat even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

Bonus Feat: At 3rd level the deepwood sniper gains a bonus feat, selected from the following list: Alertness, Crossbow Sniper, Deadeye Shot, Improved Initiative, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Penetrating Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Reconnoiter, Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Sharp-Shooting, Shot on the Run, and Stealthy. She must still meet the prerequisites as normal. She gains an additional bonus feat at 6th and 9th levels.

Take Aim (Ex): A 4th-level deepwood sniper can gain a +2 bonus on her attack rolls against a stationary target by aiming carefully. If the target has partial concealment or cover, she may ignore it. She also gains an additional 2d6 precision damage to the attack, if within 30 feet. This damage does not apply to creatures immune to critical hits. The extra damage is not multiplied during a critical hit. Taking aim is a standard action, and if the target moves more than 5 feet during that period, the bonus is lost. No additional benefit exists for spending more than one round aiming. This bonus increases to +4 at 8th level, and the precision damage increases to +4d6 damage.

Weapon Specialization: A deepwood sniper of 5th level or higher gains Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat. It must be applied to a bow or crossbow with which the sniper has taken the Weapon Focus feat.  She gains this feat even if she does not meet the prerequisites.

Ranged Precision: At 6th level, a deepwood sniper adds 30 feet to the range of all precision based damage (including her take aim ability, as well as sneak attack, sudden attack, and skirmish, as well as any others she might have).

Camouflage (Ex): A deepwood sniper of 7th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

Greater Critical (Ex): At 10th level, the threat range of her bow or crossbow becomes triple its original value. So a crossbow's critical would become 15-20x2, and a bow's would become 18-20x3. This ability is applied to the bow or crossbow with which she gained the Improved Critical feat for at 2nd level.  This overlaps the increased threat range provided by Improved Critical and does not stack with it, nor does it stack with the Keen ability.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 07:37:44 AM by RobbyPants » Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
Vynar
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 11:08:42 AM »

Thanks for posting this. Hopefully I will be able to try it out in soon.
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RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 7139



« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 12:28:31 PM »

No problem.  As I told you earlier, I've actually only seen it in play once (well, one character), but it seemed to work out pretty well.  Plus, getting Weapon Specialization at level 5 opens up the option of Ranged Weapon Mastery without blowing four levels on fighter.
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
Sinfire Titan
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Posts: 5697


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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2009, 04:12:53 PM »

I recommend changing Take Aim to a Swift action. Leaving it as a Standard action is rather crappy, almost as bad as Psychic Strike.
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RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 7139



« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2009, 05:03:37 PM »

Are you suggesting the swift action boosts all the shots fired that round?
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My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
Sinfire Titan
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 5697


You've got one round to give a rat's ass.


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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2009, 05:12:16 PM »

Are you suggesting the swift action boosts all the shots fired that round?

Possibly. It boosts the power of the class, but the boost is minor (+4d6). An extra 20d6/round is nice, but that's assuming all attacks hit. A Splitting Bow complicates things, but creatures survive 40d6 damage past level 12 or so. And again, assuming everything hits.
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Keldar
Ring-Tailed Lemur
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Posts: 20


« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 04:35:51 AM »

Take Aim (Ex): A 4th-level deepwood sniper can gain a +2 bonus on her attack rolls against a stationary target by aiming carefully. If the target has partial concealment or cover, she may ignore it. She also gains an additional 2d6 precision damage to the attack, if within 30 feet. This damage does not apply to creatures immune to critical hits. The extra damage is not multiplied during a critical hit. Taking aim is a standard action, and if the target moves more than 5 feet during that period, the bonus is lost. No additional benefit exists for spending more than one round aiming. This bonus increases to +4 at 8th level, and the precision damage increases to +4d6 damage.
Considering the discussions on 339 where it was shown that +5d8 precision damage as a standard action (from another archery PrC) was inferior to just using Manyshot or Greater Manyshot, this ability seems just plain worse.  If it worked at long range, as would be appropriate for a sniper, I could see value in it.  I'd either go with some variant on Sinfire's suggestion, or make it work over long range and actually make the PrC work as a sniper, rather than another point blank specialist.

The wording isn't clear either, is Take Aim a separate action, or is the attack part of the standard action?  Try to be more specific.  Something along the lines of:

Take Aim (Ex): A 4th level Deepwood Sniper can take aim as a Standard action.  As part of that action, she can make a single attack against the designated foe with a +2 bonus to the attack roll, and ignore partial concealment and partial cover, and deal an extra +2d6 precision damage.  Unlike other forms of precision damage, Take Aim has no range limitation.  Only a target that has not moved more than 5 feet since the Deepwood Sniper's last turn is a valid target for Take Aim.  At 8th level the bonus increases to +4 to hit and the precision damage increases to +4d6.
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RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 7139



« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 07:17:33 AM »

For sake of discussion, lets examine the swift action "boost" route:

So this boost would allow for extra precision damage to be added to each attack that round at the cost of a swift action.  The way Take Aim is currently written, it also adds a bonus to attack, but do I really want that as well?

Also, another idea:

Maybe the swift action boost can grant one of several benefits, to add versatility.  Some examples could include extra precision damage, a bonus to attack rolls, a reduction in ranged penalties, ignoring partial concealment and cover.  If we want to examine this approach more fully, I can try to come up with some numbers.
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
woodenbandman
Man in Gorilla Suit
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Posts: 2188


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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2009, 01:18:15 PM »

Increased precision damage comes in too late for a person with precision damage to benefit from it. They're losing, like, 3d6 sneak attack there.
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RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
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Posts: 7139



« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2009, 08:30:26 AM »

Actually, I don't even really have to include the precision damage.  IIRC, that was something secondary I added in a while ago to spruce up Take Aim, but it still didn't matter (as you've already explained).

I agree that it's pretty weak at that point.  I'm just trying to think of something useful to give at that point.
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 7139



« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 09:39:29 AM »

Major Necro:

I forgot all about this!  I'm thinking about adding another 30 feet to precision damage (for a total of 90 feet) somewhere in there.

Also, I'd like to redo Take Aim, but I'm still not sure how.  Here are a couple of ideas:

1) As a swift action, you may take additional time to aim at a stationary target.  The target counts as stationary if they did not move more than five feet on their last action.  The target is flat-footed against all of your ranged attacks this round.

(Possibly mix Sneak Attack or Sudden Strike into the progression with this version?)

2) As a full-round action, you study an opponent to discern their weaknesses.  The opponent must not be aware of you or at least not perceive you as a threat.  You may load a crossbow during this action.  On your next round, the first ranged attack you make against the target deals 2d6 extra damage per class level and the target is considered flat-footed against this attack.  This damage is considered precision damage, and you must be within 30 feet of your target to deal the damage (or farther with the Ranged Precision ability).

There might be other good ways to write that ability as well.  Any ideas?
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
Rymosrac
Curious George
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Posts: 321


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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2010, 11:48:42 AM »

The real trick for me when designing a sniper class / PrC is to make the mechanics encourage sniping over arrow spam. Call that personal preference if you like, though.

With that in mind, the second version of that ability looks far more attractive. 60' is still kinda wimpy for a sniper, but I'm more than aware of the problems that arise with giving classes like this too much range.
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Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .
RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 7139



« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2010, 12:31:23 PM »

I don't know why I was thinking it went up to 90 feet.  Perhaps it was because I was considering adding two 30 foot increases, as one slot would free up for Take Aim.

As for encouraging sniping, that gets tough.  It works well for ambushes, but it needs to be interesting in combat.  It might be doable, but it would take some thought.
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
Rymosrac
Curious George
****
Posts: 321


You were expecting?


Email
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2010, 06:17:46 PM »

If you wanted to make it more usable in combat, you might just make the attack part of the full-round action to study the target. That keeps the player from having to sit out every other round - which is always a bad idea. Combat is too time-consuming out of game, and too short ingame, for a player to spend every other round saying "I study that guy and hope he doesn't move too much."
Logged

Shh. My common sense is tingling. . .
RobbyPants
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 7139



« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2010, 07:00:06 PM »

If I did the wait-a-whole-round approach, I wouldn't use the opponent-must-be-stationary limitation.  Still, you do have a point about someone sitting out like that.  I just took and modified the idea from the Tome assassin.
Logged

My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
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